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#140442 - 07/20/08 01:09 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: dweste]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Unless things have improved in CA since I was last there (fat chance of that), you will not be able to purchase a handgun until you have had an "approved" weapons class at an approved place of instruction. Unless you are a LEO, in the military, or have a DD214 from prior military service. You will have to have a gun safe (not just a locking container) that is on the state approved list. In certain of the more rural counties you might be able to get a CCW permit, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. You could read thru this , it will give you some idea of what is ahead for you.

Since you are brand new to the handgun thing, I would suggest you look at revolvers instead of semi-autos. Simple and easy to use, shorter learning curve (as long as you shoot single action. Accurate double action shooting takes longer to master). I have never fired one, only handled it, but the Taurus Judge that I believe someone has already mentioned on your dog thread might meet your needs. The .410 shotshells, or slugs, might hurt those dogs you are worried about, plus you could put meat in the pot with the shotshells. It is my understanding that accuracy with .45LC ammo is not fantastic, probably due to the long cylinder/barrel jump, but it would probably work for close range...
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OBG

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#140445 - 07/20/08 01:45 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: dweste]
pforeman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 237
Loc: Iowa
I don't say much as I 'lurk' and learn a lot. This topic however hits home as I've been in training over 20 years and am still a certified 'pistol' instructor. I spent a lot of time doing law enforcement, corrections officer and even civilian hand gun / shotgun training. With that said, getting a hand gun is a big step and will require a lot of time and effort to truly make it worthwhile.

So, get the weapon and supporting materials (ammo, cleaning stuff etc.) and very important, the training. Then practice - lots. A .22 conversion kit with what ever you get, while extra expense will be well worth the investment. A good holster, belt (and mag pouch if you go auto) are also necessary - DONT skimp on the holster/belt. Many cops and civilians training with the 'off duty' gun or weekend carry civilian style try to get by with an inexpensive holster on the belt they got at Macy's in men's clothing. I've got a holster, belt and mag pouch that set me back 300 bucks made by a pro and custom cut - but the gun always fits, always comes out when I draw, never shifts all day long, and is very secure. You may be betting your life on your gear so get the best you can for your situation.

To wrap up... if you do this, you must commit to training and continued practice with re-training for as long as you carry a sidearm. That's at least monthly and not a simple box of shells once or twice a year. That means time, money and serious (very serious) mental and physical effort on your part. Good luck and stay safe.

Paul -



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#140447 - 07/20/08 01:59 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: OldBaldGuy]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Well, you can forget The Judge, looks like it is not on CA's list of approved handguns. Sorry 'bout that...
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#140450 - 07/20/08 03:17 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: OldBaldGuy]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
After the recent supreme court ruling, some of the restrictions in in CA may change. We'll have to see. But as of right now, you're probably more limited by what CA says is "right for you" than by any other concerns. That's unfortunate, but hopefully it will change soon.

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#140451 - 07/20/08 03:30 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: OldBaldGuy]
BlueSky Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 36
Loc: DFW TX
When I got my first handgun, I didn't heed the advice to get a .22 first, and I have mild regret. I developed a bad habit of flinching with my 9mm that I had to un-learn. I think that if I'd have started with a .22, I would have had an easier time learning to shoot properly. There are a lot of other reasons to get one (accuracy, economy, for starters), but I thought I'd add this one.

I also think that the needs for concealed carry are different enough from target/home use that they will lead to different solutions. For concealed carry, a light, compact gun with a quality belt and holster are very important. Although I have a dependable carry gun, I do wish it were a bit smaller. The holster and belt do help a lot, but I still find myself thinking about smaller/lighter options, especially on hot summer days...

Without this need for concealment, however, I would lean toward a full size (vs. compact), metal frame (vs. polymer) handgun. There are lots of options, so it needs to be one that feels good and that you can shoot well. It's really great that there are so many quality handguns, and I'm hesitant to recommend just one.

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#140452 - 07/20/08 03:57 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: dweste]
CityBoyGoneCountry Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 369
Ruger GP100, stainless steel, 6" barrel.

Powerful weapon, but not so powerful that you can't control it. Extremely durable, built like a tank. Take care of it, and it will take care of you.

Why a revolver? Because they're dependable. Less opportunity for mechanical failure. And if you need more than 6 shots, then you're better off using a machine gun because your aim sucks.

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#140453 - 07/20/08 04:09 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: BlueSky]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Possession of a DD214 is no longer sufficient proof ot training under the last Grey Davis insult.The myth of a handgun being inaccurate at range is just that. Within the limits of the cartridge some rather suprising results can be obtained.The 45LC is at a disadvantage for several reasons; the change from .454 to .451 bullet and barrel kept a comparatively weak black powder case now married to .451 bullets and a .454 cylinder. Unless you cast soft .451 slug that can upset in the rifling accuracy will suffer. The platforms are a mixed lot- and HEAVY. All factory ammo is loaded for black powder frame Cols, still a very potent round and probably pushing the usefull limits of the case. The SA mode is very comfortable, but you will need training to put multiple rounds downrange. The modern S& W 'N' frame is a nice package, but current production is horrid compared to even the last 3 screw pinned barrel jobs. The older Colt New Service revolvers are now heavily collected, a shame as they are .454, but also have a virtually useless DA pull.Forget the .45LC for a first handgun. A DA revolver will allow a better matching of hand ergonomics; frame size and aftermarket grips, safety and is the fastest weapon to be brought into action. Quality revolvers also handle different cartridges many semis out of the box cannot.You need to put aside ALL preconceived parameters for handguns. Sometimes a particular package simply works well with different people. I first qualified with a S & W Victory in the service. My gunner's Mate wisely started me with one since I had no prior experience. I shot expert and by week's end repeated it with a 1911 (superb instruction, not any inate ability.)After owning and shooting just about every caliber and platform, I ironically find a old Model 10 Smith and Wesson with 6" barrel and plain vanilla 158 grain ( or 200 grain superpolice when I find them)the best all around package for home defense. Ed McGivern was right!


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (07/20/08 04:16 PM)

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#140454 - 07/20/08 04:11 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: BlueSky]
BlueSky Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 36
Loc: DFW TX
As for things that go with them, I like:

LifeJacket (vs. a trigger lock). I like that it covers the action, as well as the magazine release, and doesn't touch the trigger. I bought mine at Academy.
http://www.life-jacket.com/lifejacket/intro.html

Wilderness Tactical Belt (5 stitch) as a good value that works well.
http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1186

The Belt Man belts for a more traditional looking belt that holds up even better (costs more, but still a great value).
http://www.thebeltman.net/

Fast access handgun safe. This is where mine goes when it's not in the main safe or on my person. (There are many good options, this is just the one I have):
http://www.winchesterevault.com/

For the car, my wife and I each have one of these (keyed alike). Works well when carrying and you have to go in somewhere that is off-limits:
http://www.center-of-mass.com/

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#140458 - 07/20/08 04:29 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: dweste]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
No "disclaimers" in my post, ok? I'll use common, everyday, factual terminology (which sometimes offends the faint of heart).

A handgun for self-defense is meant to kill. It is a deadly weapon. It's not to wound or "incapacitate". At the moment the decision is made to use it, the victim's life is in danger and the attacker cannot be stopped any other way. Death is imminent - for one or the other. Make sure it's the other.

I'd recommend a .40 caliber semi-auto from a reputable manufacturer. SIG Arms, Heckler & Koch, and Glock come immediately to mind. There are others, of course. Get three magazines (or more). Get a double-action only, meaning it fires like a revolver - each pull of the trigger fires and resets the hammer.

Other accessories (some of which you probably already own): hearing protection; magazine reloading assist; carry bag for going to the range; gun cleaning kit for .40 cal (or any with extra .40 cal brushes); holster (Isreali Fobus friction-retention paddle holster is one of my favorites [NO retention strap or release button!]).

Learn how to shoot it well from your brother or other instructor(s) and practice often. Make sure you learn, understand, and practice (to the point of muscle memory) the "tap, rack, bang" principle for the inevitable misfeed. Generally speaking, the better quality the weapon and the better care given to it, the lesser the chance of misfeeds and other problems.

Good luck! By using your 2nd Amendment rights and enhancing them by getting a "self-defense" weapon, you are, in my oh-so-humble opinion, a great American!
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DON'T BE SCARED
-Stretch

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#140470 - 07/20/08 07:04 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Stretch]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Any weapon used for self-defense is meant to stop the threat. It may or may not kill the person presenting the threat, that doesn't alter the fact that its purpose is to stop the threat, not kill the person of the threat.

Just about any handgun caliber can kill; stopping the threat in a timely manner is another thing altogether and takes more gun than one designed to just kill. Some folks use the argument that professional hit-men/killers use a .22LR as justification to use a .22LR pistol for PD. That's a bad argument IMO. Coldly assassinating someone from ambush and defending yourself in a PD situation are totally different actions requiring different tactics.

Personally, for PD in the home I will almost always go for a 12 ga shotgun, more destructive than any common pistol caliber.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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