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#140104 - 07/17/08 07:03 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
Very true Hacksaw and the less that you leave, the slower that you are moving, usually. I try to leave as little trail as I can, always, just to build habits.

Some of these "what if's" are taking on the nature of an "offensive campaign" vs trying to get home with as little trouble as possible, as quickly as possible.

What are your thoughts?
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#140117 - 07/17/08 07:32 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: wildman800]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I've actually had mantracker training and I think trying to leave no sign is a waste of time. You'd be better of using that time to move at a normal pace to cover as much ground as possible without being obvious.

There are things you can do to make your sign hard to read. Contamination is the worst IMO. Walk where a lot of other people have (or will in the near future...better yet) and your tracks will be obscured by those of others. This can really slow a tracker down as they need to make sure they're following you. The size of print you leave will be an indicator which could seperate your tracks from others in the same area. There are very slick techniques for accurately measuring foot and pace size on the run without having to stop for very long.

The other thing you can do...and it's hard to do because it's not exactly practical...is wear shoes which won't leave a 'signature' print. If the tracker can't identify the tread pattern of your footware he won't have any obvious way to seperate you from other tracks he may find...this can really slow them down (I know it does me). There is a possibility he'll follow the wrong ones too. Trust me...this is way harder than it sounds...I've tried just to see and usually I leave MORE sign. Going barefoot doesn't help because then you're leaving the equivalent of finger prints behind. Wearing footwear like a moccasin can help but isn't fool proof.

Changing your pace and occationally 'hoping' around can mix somebody up too especially if there is a lot of contamination. They'll find you either way but it might slow them down if they can't find your exit path right away.

Also, avoid 'track traps' like muddy patches or sandy soil or water/puddles...stuff that really makes it clear what kind of shoes you have on and can tell the tracker a lot about you.

Most of the mistakes I have made tracking have come from following the wrong set of tracks because I couldn't seperate 2 (or more) sets and just simply picked the wrong ones to follow. That's when you get into behavioral profiling and trying to use other techniques to ID your tracks...like trying to figure out if the tracks are from a male or female, a limp or not, or if the person is tired, how much they weigh. That's advanced stuff which I've only touched the tip of at best.

In the example you provided above (getting on topic again) I'd walk around the fence parallel to it. I wouldn't be 'careful' or run (that will show in your tracks and could give you up). I'd imagine on a farm there's more traffic there than anywhere else. Maybe more on the inside than the outside if lifestock are a factor (they can cover your tracks with their own too). Cutting through a field that has no tracks to speak of will give you away almost as easily as a cut fence or gate chain (though those things will give them a definitive last known position to start cutting from). An experienced sign cutter will pick your path out in seconds and won't need to spend time analysing it...they'll follow it like there's a big red arrow painted on the ground. If you're going to be going through farm country wear the same kind of footwear the farmers do even if that means cowboy boots. If all the tracks are flat leather soles with a square heel, they'll have to slow down to distinguish them to find yours...or better yet won't know which ones are yours in the first place.

It's a pretty scary thing. I didn't realize just how fool proof it is until I started learning it myself.

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#140118 - 07/17/08 07:35 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: ]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


One more thing...don't be seen.

Mantrackers aren't just followers of footprints. Often times a person is found because the tracker had the presence to ask a local 'Did you see anybody go this way recently?'.

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#140119 - 07/17/08 07:37 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: ]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
I remember a search for a couple of kids escaped from the
youth facility in NE Washington state. There was snow on the
ground but melted out around trees. The kids pole vaulted
from tree well to tree well and fooled the juvenile officers
for awhile.

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#140120 - 07/17/08 07:37 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
Very well put Hacksaw.

When tracking someone, I also try to put myself into their shoes. That indicates to me WHERE they may be heading which helps me also look in the right direction to see indications of passage that are not on the ground, but hanging from branches. A bit of hair, cloth, disturbed leaves on low hanging branches, etc.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#140122 - 07/17/08 07:40 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: wildman800]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Your referring to 'high sign'. It's an important part of tracking. People often disturb things without even thinking about what's above their knees. I've even seen people who break off branches from trees as they walk by and don't even realize they're doing it.

When you're looking for somebody who wants to be found it's way easier. Family can even sometimes tell you what kind of boots they are wearing or if they have any conditions that may effect their pace.


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#140129 - 07/17/08 07:54 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: clearwater]
BillLiptak Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 259
Blackhawk sells a set of four ladder rungs that weave thru the fence to form a ladder. No damage to the fence'

-Bill Liptak

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#140131 - 07/17/08 08:13 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: NightHiker]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Okay, I think that is a possible solution: remove / cut the fence attachement wires on the bottom of a post enough to let the chain link fabric flex to create an opening at the bottom of the fence. That way you do not have to deal with razor wire on top, or a climb that for whatever reason is not practical.

What would be the best tool to accomplish this?


Edited by dweste (07/17/08 08:23 PM)

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#140133 - 07/17/08 08:20 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: dweste]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


The multitool you might already have in your pocket. This is usually done with a heavy wire twisted like a twist tie. If you can't untwist it you can use the file or hard wire cutters to cut it (assuming your tool has those features).

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#140137 - 07/17/08 08:38 PM Re: Bolt, wire, fence cutter in the BOB? [Re: ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Interesting: the barbed wire and chain link fence encounter challenges seem to have at least one remarkably similar solution: remove the wires or staples that fasten the fence material to one or more posts until the wire or fabric flexes enough to allow you to fit through or underneath. This leaves the fence itself relatively intact to do its job for the landowner and, without close inspection, leaves your passage through relatively undetectable.

Bolt cutter not needed.

Good job, folks.


Edited by dweste (07/17/08 08:40 PM)

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