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#137046 - 06/21/08 08:27 PM Fire jar.
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Several times, I've mentioned the fire making cannister I keep in my BOB. I figured I'd show it off.

Problem: My BOB is designed to supliment, expand, and refill my ditch kit. So, I had some options when it came to fire. I've got a small fire kit in BOB with a match safe, a lighter, and a hot spark, along with some esbit tabs and tinder. But I didn't have backup/restore capabilities (BoB is basically a mobile basecamp for me).

Requirements: It has to be utterly robust, at stronger than a Nalgene if possible and completely water proof, but fairly small. It has to be able to refill the two match cases in I carry in the ditch kit, if not more, plus carry tinder, and a spare lighter.

Solution:


The construction is a bit of scrap 2" PVC, a solid cap, and a threaded cap. It was assembled with PVC adhesive, then I added a bead of the same around the seams just to be sure.

During testing, I filled it a quarter of the way with cotton balls and a little bit of koolaid powder, some musket balls, then the rest of the way with more cotton. It then went into a bucket full of water for a week. With the threads taped, the cotton was still dry after a week, and there was no staining. I let it dry, put the lead back in, filled it with water, capped it, and put that and some koolaid powder on top of a peice of paper towel for a week. No leaks- it's good.

Admittedly, it has not undergone significant stress testing. But I'm sure it is at least as strong as a Nalgene.

So, I wrapped a couple of Velcro One Wrap straps around the outside, just becuase it seemed like a good place for them, I'd made it a little longer than it needed to be and had a gap. I packed the "bowl" of the cap with cotton balls- more tinder! Then I started packing it.... origionally, this was just going to have a mini-bic and matches, but over a hundred strike anywheres and a lot of room to go seemed redundant even to me. So, a few went out.


I hope that 70-odd will be enough. They are triple coated with shellac to keep them water resistant. At the top of the image is a little black area- that is a piece of electricans tape, with a striker attached to it, striking surface to the inside wall of the container. There is another mounted opposite this one.

There is a peice of light weight plastic that keeps the matches on their side.

On the other side, I have a mini-bic, along with 8 stay lit candles. I origionally had my concerned about these guys, but after tossing my ditch kit in the car for a trip last summer, and then deciding to leave it in there, and the little candles didn't melt, I'm not too worried about these any more. YMMV- 95% is a serious heat wave here. :P

I also have a dozen short fire straws. I'm too lazy to reshoot the picture- they are hidden under a cotton ball. For those that aren't familiar, they are half a cotton ball with vaseline worked in. Actually, I recycled some Neosporin that was two years past it's due date. It's petroleum jelly as a base, and I can not imagine that an OTC antibiotic will go toxic when it tanks, so if there is nothing else available....

There is a circle of plastic over the top of this because... I'm not sure. Made sense at the time, haven't bothered to take it out. Worst case, it burns. Actually, I know why, I used to have a tea light in here, but I pulled it out after it melted down. Fortunately, I had it wrapped in a bit of pallet wrap against that possibility- the plastic was there just in case the pallet wrap failed.

Then I add a coil of sisal twine over the top of this barrier. The blue thing just above the open cannister is a tiny bit of teflon tape that came with a replacement shower head- it was the perfect size, so I reached for my normal roll of plumber's tape and put this little one in there to retape threads in the field. I also tape my match cases, just to be sure, along with the o-rings.

The square nub of the cap is hollow, so I packed it with more cotton balls.

Plans include adding a ferro rod, and taping a bit of hack saw blade to the partition between match/non-match portions. I'm also thinking about a couple of needles and a shortened spool of dental floss. Since this is the rendendant, back up stash, it makes sense to me to do so.

Problems are that it can be hard to open. I carry this in the same pocket as a pair of channel locks in my BoB, so it isn't a major issue. Without that, a couple of longer, thumb-thick branches for leverage will get it open. And I've got three smaller match cases, two ferro rods, 4 mini-bics, and a sparklite between BoB, the Ditch Kit and my PSK, so if I can't get it open right away, I'm not completely hosed.

Hopefully. *laughs*
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137056 - 06/21/08 10:48 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
climberslacker Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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That thing is amazing, How much does it weigh?
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#137064 - 06/21/08 11:38 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: climberslacker]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: Vermont
Not sure. Empty, probably like 3-4 ounces. It isn't a light weight, but what goes in dry stays dry.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137068 - 06/21/08 11:59 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Pretty cool, ironraven.

The only size info I saw was for the 2 inch PVC an I'm having trouble visualizing the size from the contents. Please, what are the dimensions?
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#137076 - 06/22/08 12:28 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
That… is … cool! Just keep it away from the fire you are building.
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#137079 - 06/22/08 12:41 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: JCWohlschlag]
dweste Offline
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Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Your idea for a "ditch kit" is interesting. Are the contents of your BOB also posted online?

Thanks.

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#137085 - 06/22/08 01:04 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: dweste]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Very elegant. Sort of opens the door to a lot of PVC stash projects, up to a chunk of fake 6" pvc pipe in the cellar for sensitive items. The only issue that occurs is that, following up on JCWohl's comment, you have created a pvc pipe bomb that might raise LEO eyebrows.
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#137089 - 06/22/08 02:29 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: ironraven
Problems are that it can be hard to open.
Just drill a hole through the square knob on the screw top. The you can find a skinny stick to put in there and use for a lever. Or duct tape a large nail to the side of the container and then pull that off to use as your lever. You could maybe wrap some paracord around the square knob, like on the older lawnmovers where you had to wrap the string around the starting pulley. If you yanked the paracord hard enough it might spin the top off or loosen it somewhat (doubtful, but worth a try).

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#137096 - 06/22/08 03:39 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Nicodemus]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Don't have exact, but it is about the size of a 14oz wide mouth mini Nalgene but not quite as tall. Approx 2.5" dia x around 6.5" long. I could have shaved off some, and if I make another one, I probably will, even though I'll have to shorten the caps.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137097 - 06/22/08 03:41 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: haertig]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: haertig
Just drill a hole through the square knob on the screw top.


Not for a match case you don't. :P

Actually, I experimented with what you are describing. 1, didn't find they helped all that much, it just a leverage and hand strength issue. 2, wasn't sold on the water proofing of the modified cap. Kinda defeats the "waterproof" requirement.
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137098 - 06/22/08 03:47 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: JCWohlschlag]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I keep all my gear away from fire. What doesn't melt burns or explodes. :P

And I've given some thought to this. If it flares somehow, half the matches are upside down, so it won't be as large an explosion if any. The seal is water proof, and as close to gas tight as I can make it, so any oxygen will get used up fast. And there is padding at either end, there is always long-axis give but very little short-axis, so they are extremely unlikely to go up from a sharp shock. I'm moderately confident that body of the match safe will contain any explosion that MIGHT, SOMEHOW occur, and if it doesn't, it has 8" of gear to go through to get to me, and possibly a pack frame.

And I'll just tell people it is a match safe. The lighter backs that up. If it was something unsocial, it would just be match heads, rather than wasting space like this. This is more a pipe bomb than metal can full of ammunition is. If you are worried about how some self righteous, pompous twit might think of your gear, then let's face it, most of us here could be charged with possession of bugler's tools, or carrying a deadly weapon. (Sorry to our UK members, who already have this issue with EDC.) I'm not going to compromise my gear for what some pencil pushing, drippy nosed bureaucrat thinks. I don't carry this down town, it's in my camping gear.

Which also has liquid and solid fuels, knives, flares, some pretty large quantities of OTC meds that have been repacked, and often ammunition. If someone wants to gig me, I'm SOL, and I know it. But then again, if this is on black top, things would have to be pretty bad. *shrugs*


Edited by ironraven (06/22/08 03:54 AM)
Edit Reason: some donkey lover might take exception to how I refered to bureacrats
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137100 - 06/22/08 03:52 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
climberslacker Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
"something unsocial"-best line ever

So is the square top thing not solid??


_________________________
http://jacesadventures.blogspot.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
impossible is just the beginning

though i seek perfection, i wear my scars with pride

Have you seen the arrow?


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#137102 - 06/22/08 03:55 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: climberslacker]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Nope, the square bit is a cavity on the inside- more cotton. That is were a plumber would glom onto it with a wrench for more leverage when he has to clean something out.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137103 - 06/22/08 03:58 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: dweste]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
The BOB is in constant flux. *laughs* And right now, it isn't even with me, it's packed in storage. I know, stupid place for it, but my living situation doesn't really support having it with me. If it did, I'd have my rifles with me- roommate situations. The ditch kit lives in my car, with is more secure than my room is.

The ditch kit and a knap sack full of groceries will get me home if I have to walk. Long, cold, wet, uncomfortable, yes, but until fall I should be able to pull it off. By then... I'll be in better shape.
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137107 - 06/22/08 04:11 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Some teflon tape on the threads will help with waterproofness, and should make it a little easier to open...
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#137136 - 06/22/08 02:03 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I teflon tape everything that isn't a water bottle that goes in my gear. This gets three wraps, just to be sure. :P That is what the little blue piece in the second picture is, replacement tape.
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137180 - 06/22/08 08:14 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
OldBaldGuy Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
One step ahead of me, as usual...
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#137186 - 06/22/08 09:05 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
priest Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 16
Hi Ironraven

A quick question. How does this pipe stand up to the cold? It gets up to -50 in the winter here so the plastic may shatter if dropped. I imagine this type of pipe would hold up well under that kind of cold but I don't know.

I like your design. Very well thought out. I think I may give it a try using the caps that thread on the outside of the pipe. It may make it easier to remove the cap in the cold/wet.

Thanks for the tips

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#137199 - 06/22/08 09:59 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: priest]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Seems a bit bulky, may leak if not treated with Teflon tape and I would guess it may be very hard to open up when the caps been on a while and or when your hands are half froze.


I make these homemade fire starters that are completely self contained; they are waterproof, have a striking surface that works on most everything (no need for a lighter or matches to get them going) They burn for several minutes allowing you to get your tinder going, they are easy to make and take up very little space. The only drawback is that they are wax-coated and may get wax on other things if left in a hot car. I solve this problem by keeping them in a zip-lock bag.


Here is a picture that shows one of them, it’s at the bottom of the picture under the stove.



All it takes to make them is some cardboard, strike anyplace matches and an old cooking pan (Goodwill store $2.00) to heat wax in to dip the cardboard in.
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#137205 - 06/22/08 11:15 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
[quote=ironraven] The seal is water proof, and as close to gas tight as I can make it, so any oxygen will get used up fast)

Gas tight may not help.
Chemistry is not my strong suit, but, as I understand it, the reason match heads (and gunpowder) work in pipe bombs (and gun chambers) is that they don't rely on atmospheric oxygen, they generate their own oxygen by breaking down potassium chlorate or potassium nitrate. The likelihood of ignition is small to be sure; but if it does ignite, the combination of matches and butane will probably make a big boom. Butane lighters apparently explode, but are pretty well-engineered, or we would be constantly surrounded by human torches-and that is probably true of match safes, too.



reference: http://nobel.scas.bcit.ca/resource/glossary/s-z.htm

http://www.chemaxx.com/butane_lighter3.htm
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#137216 - 06/23/08 12:57 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Gas tight may not help. Chemistry is not my strong suit, but, as I understand it, the reason match heads (and gunpowder) work in pipe bombs (and gun chambers) is that they don't rely on atmospheric oxygen, they generate their own oxygen by breaking down potassium chlorate or potassium nitrate. The likelihood of ignition is small to be sure; but if it does ignite, the combination of matches and butane will probably make a big boom.

Another way of looking at things is to imagine if you were to put several ounces of black powder on the ground and light it - it would go "poof", although the burn time would be measurable, and very little pressure gradient would be observed. Repeat the test with the same amount of black powder contained within a sealed container, and now you have a relatively powerful pipe bomb.

The containment provided by the pipe in the second example results in a significant increase in internal pressure, which in turn is what allows the black powder to produce a relatively large explosion. Essentially as the black powder combusts (deflagration in this case) the combustion gases expand (subsonically) until they either rupture the container, or simply reside due to exhaustion of the reactants.

In the case of IronRaven's fire jar, I suspect that the wall thickness toward the end of the square nub is such that it would rupture first and essentially act as a pressure vent before the entire container would rupture and caused any damage or serious injuries. Having the match heads alternating as he does (most likely for increased storage capacity) also reduces the likelyhood of creating as much pressure rise if anything were to ever ignite the matches.

Jim
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#137236 - 06/23/08 03:05 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
ironraven Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I don't think it will explode, but being gas tight-ish will snuff the fire before it burns up the other half of the matches and the all the tinder and sets of the lighter.
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137237 - 06/23/08 03:09 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Paragon]
ironraven Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Actually, I alternate them because I"ve heard too many stories about people somehow igniting the heads of strike anywheres on the lid of their match safe. The poof and die in those cases, probably blew themselves out- this way, IF that should somehow happen, ok, some have singed butts, and others are tinder. *shrugs*

And yes, most likely the square end would turn into a rocket nozzle if this thing somehow had a catastrophic and spontaneous detonation. But odds are, the only way that will happen is if I fall off a cliff, or get stuck by lighting. Either way... I'm not sure I'll really care.

But yes, I do agree with the point that you and Mike raise about a containment vessel being a Bad Thing (TM) if it fails. That is why it is NOT carried next to my skin. I want stuff that will soak shrapnel between it and my spine. *laughs* Now, what I'd really like is something like a desicant pack that turns atmospheric O2 into a compound that is non flammible....
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137239 - 06/23/08 03:13 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: priest]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
You aren't getting this open with heavy gloves without leverage, that nub is about an inch square and not quite that tall. But in terms of cold, it schedule 40 PVC. It's pretty tough stuff, but I don't trust anything, not even metal, not to break at -40 (same for both sides of 45N) after having destroyed a few alternators at -40. :P If cooled that far, and kept there for a while, a good sharp whack will probably crack it pretty easy, but that holds for most things...
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137328 - 06/23/08 07:36 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
My elder brother developed a childhood interest in rocketry, until he discovered that rocket engines with crimped nozzles are grenades, and blew up a neighbor's back porch. The sacrificial blow-out nib on the fire jar is sort of intriguing from a rocketry point of view. The blow-out feature is reminiscent of the DuPont gunpowder factory in Delaware. the factory buildings had 3 stone walls and one wooden wall, facing the river. When the inevitable explosions occurred, the wooden wall blew out and deposited the debris in the river. The DuPonts could then simply replace the blowout wall, roof, (and employees) and get back to work. Very practical folks. It is hard to believe that we have been talking about explosions for 2 days without a comment from Blast. Anyway, nice kit, nice concept,Raven-
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#137332 - 06/23/08 08:00 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Sorry, I've been busy. shocked

Quote:
I want stuff that will soak shrapnel between it and my spine.


A word of warning. PVC shrapnel doesn't show up on x-rays very well. They have to track it down by probing the entry point with very long needles. sick

Still, I'm thinking this might be a good experiment when I have the time.

-Blast



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#137336 - 06/23/08 09:09 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
hey blast in ur profile pic, it looks like your holding a grenade! What is it? Avacodo maybe?
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impossible is just the beginning

though i seek perfection, i wear my scars with pride

Have you seen the arrow?


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#137346 - 06/23/08 10:31 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Blast, it's going to be about 8" behind my shoulder blades.... If it goes, I'm toast. *laughs*

Honestly, I think ya'll are jousting at windmills. It's literally an oversized match safe, and while those sometimes flare, I've never heard of one that wanted to be a grenade when it grew up.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137387 - 06/24/08 04:42 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
I think it's an interesting idea, bulky as you already obviously know but interesting none the less.

As far as dangerous... not to sure. I did some experiments with the orange and green match cases. I filled them up, lit 1, stuck it in and closed it, the rest ignited and melted the lid and that was it. This proves that with little air (way less than yours) the match will continue to burn, ignite other matches they will burn and create tremendous heat.

Now, yours may technically be 'illegal' as you have an ignition source, and a flammable/explosive inside. Is this considered by law a pipe bomb? Possibly. It may be worth investigating as it would be terrible to get arrested and go to jail for such a thing, also would be even worse if it did go off and make a small pop (most likely) and bring attention to yourself or set something on fire/etc.

Personally I think there are better ways to store matches, a lighter and cotton.
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#137418 - 06/24/08 01:23 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: climberslacker]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Climberslacker,

Yep, it's an avacado. Good things, those avacodos. Nutrient and calorie rich, very tastey, and nicely compact. I always take one on my adventures.

-Blast
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#137421 - 06/24/08 01:37 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
I've been wondering what that was...
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#137464 - 06/24/08 04:58 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Is that a fragmentation avocado or a concussion avocado?
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#137470 - 06/24/08 05:19 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Is that a fragmentation avocado or a concussion avocado?

Either way you get some great guacamole.
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#137474 - 06/24/08 05:43 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Is that a fragmentation avocado or a concussion avocado?


Concussion. One skin-penetrating avacado wound was enough for me. Avacodo shrapnel doesn't show up well on x-rays any better than PVC... blush

-Blast

p.s. On a side note, there's some pretty amazing tequila around Mexican oilfields...


Edited by Blast (06/24/08 05:44 PM)
Edit Reason: added info
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#137507 - 06/24/08 10:51 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
organic projectile penetrating wounds are always a challenge. if it's wooden, we can send radionuclide-tagged termites down the wound channel and track it with a gamma camera. PVC and avocados are tougher.
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#137631 - 06/25/08 06:34 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
I retract my earlier objection. While the fire jar does replicate a couple of improvised munition devices even to the number of match heads present (or so I am told), there is no ignition device, so it is at least as safe as any other match safe. However, I have devised a solution to this non-problem: pack the square indentation in the cap with baking soda, secured with scotch tape: should ignition occur, the heat will melt the tape, pyrolyze the bicarb, and extinguish the flame. And what do we call a solution to a non-problem? A MARKETING OPPORTUNITY! Just like bottled water solved the problem of access to potable water in the USA, just as the entire fashion industry solves the problem of access to clothing, just as the hula hoop solved the problem of lack of technology to help us shake our butts...
We now have the IRON RAVEN IMPROVED MATCH SAFE WITH ON BOARD FIRE SUPPRESSION CAPABILITY. This could be huge. I've seen guys selling lanyards on the internet, guys selling duct-tape wallets in the Gap. This is is no more silly than those items, and a whole lot more useful. Raven, an opportunity for a killer home-based business is at your fingertips-well done.
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#137640 - 06/25/08 07:18 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Nursemike, you are a GENIUS!

-Blast
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Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
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#137641 - 06/25/08 07:20 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: nursemike
I have devised a solution to this non-problem: pack the square indentation in the cap with baking soda, secured with scotch tape


Good idea, but how about inexpensive plastic wrap that will melt faster than scotch tape. Kind of like the sensing element in a sprinkler. The element melts and when it does a valve opens on the sprinkler and releases water or some other material (not sure this is with all kind of sprinklers). Wouldn't you want the barrier between the sprinkler and matches to melt fast?

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#137642 - 06/25/08 07:28 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Dan_McI]
Evan Offline
Engineer
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 25
Loc: IL
Could always make a fuse that could go to a small explosive charge behind the baking soda so that should a fire occur, the baking soda would be RAPIDLY deployed throughout the contents....


On second thought... bad idea...

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#137646 - 06/25/08 07:43 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Evan]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Evan
Could always make a fuse that could go to a small explosive charge behind the baking soda so that should a fire occur, the baking soda would be RAPIDLY deployed throughout the contents....


On second thought... bad idea...


A small explosive charge sounds like fun.

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#137651 - 06/25/08 08:14 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Dan_McI]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
+2

I like the explosive-actived fire supression system!

Of course, I also like explosive-based haircare products, explosive-based gardening, and ultra-high-pressure avacado delivery devices...

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#137653 - 06/25/08 08:25 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
Evan Offline
Engineer
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 25
Loc: IL
Nothing quite like avocado heated to just the correct temperature by reentry to the atmosphere.

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#137656 - 06/25/08 08:32 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
perhaps a shotgun primer/back powder charge placed in a hole on the outside of the fire suppressant cavity under the bicarb, allowing the user to activate the suppression system in advance of an impending detonation by smacking the primer with the SAK awl...
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#137685 - 06/25/08 11:53 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Oh, trust me, this does sorta kinda resemble some really basic IMs. I know about the reservation. But the devil is in the details, and it isn't really a strong resemblance after a few seconds of observation.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137686 - 06/26/08 12:23 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Let's see, black powder charge, a way for the carrier to ignite it inside of a sealed plastic gizmo full of matches and a butane lighter. The ATF would love it!!!
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OBG

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#137689 - 06/26/08 12:39 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
rescueguru Offline
Wanderer
Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeastern USA
grin I'm really beginning to worry about you guys. What started as a really neat idea seems to have taken a turn in the wrong direction. Besides, I hate avacados, could we have pineapples instead? hehehe cool
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#137697 - 06/26/08 02:02 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: rescueguru]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Heck, we worry about us constantly. The only reason they let us run around loose is that psychopharmacology has made such gains in the past decade.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#137701 - 06/26/08 02:18 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: ironraven]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: ironraven
Oh, trust me, this does sorta kinda resemble some really basic IMs. I know about the reservation. But the devil is in the details, and it isn't really a strong resemblance after a few seconds of observation.



That beast is just crying for a small LCD alarm clock, a 9v battery, and a couple feet of telephone cord running into the square bung. whistle

Jim
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My EDC and FAK


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#137703 - 06/26/08 02:20 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: rescueguru]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I'm not too worried- let them get it out of their systems. *grins* I'll have matches and lighters and ferrorcerium long after everyone else is banging rocks together. Or they'll come and bang on the rocks in my head. *laughs*

_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137712 - 06/26/08 03:22 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Evan Offline
Engineer
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 25
Loc: IL
Nursemike - You're onto something here... simply attach a mousetrap with a pin poised over the primer and a small string and we now have a trap that not only can catch your food but cook it in one fell swoop!

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#137795 - 06/26/08 04:54 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Evan]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Excellent thought. This is perhaps the ideal match safe and fire-suppression grenade: it can be thrown into a conflagration, detonate, and spread fire suppressing bicarb, as well as provide enough fire creation supplies for maybe 300 camp fires.
(I attempted a google search to see how many fires a butane lighter will light. Came up dry, but discovered a guide to fire shaving: http://www.instructables.com/id/Fire-Shaving/?comments=all)-Blast, have you experimented (intentionally) with hair-removal by flame or explosion?
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#137809 - 06/26/08 05:38 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Fire shaving. Brings a whole new meaning to the term "razor burn"...
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#137831 - 06/26/08 06:56 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Blast, have you experimented (intentionally) with hair-removal by flame or explosion?


Back in grad school I used to do the demonstrations for the freshmen chemistry class. One demo was displaying ballons containing different gases and having the kids vote on which would give the biggest "boom". The balloons oxygen, nitrogen, helium, hydrogen, and a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. After they'd vote I'd touch a match to the balloon.

Oxygen: pop
Nitrogen: pop
Helium: pop
Hydrogen: POP
Hydrogen + Oxygen: KA-BLAM!!!

The resulting explosion/fireball removed all the hair from my arm and the side of my head. Italso knocked my goggles askew and removed one eyebrow. The campus radio station was in the basement directly below me and the sound of the explosion was broadcasted (not intentionally) throughout the tri-city area.

The next time I did the demo I taped the match to a long stick.

And also used bigger ballonns. grin

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#137832 - 06/26/08 07:03 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Too bad halon is too toxic... Compress that into the space. ;-)

How about a co2 cartridge?
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#137838 - 06/26/08 07:57 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Mike_H]
Evan Offline
Engineer
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 25
Loc: IL
With the addition of highly compressed gas for this project (C02), we can now add fins to the project and turn it into a torpedo. No longer limited to snaring small animals, we can go after Shark, small boats, etc...

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#137839 - 06/26/08 08:03 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Evan]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Evan
With the addition of highly compressed gas for this project (C02), we can now add fins to the project and turn it into a torpedo. No longer limited to snaring small animals, we can go after Shark, small boats, etc...


Now, if that's the plan, then don't we need to pack a strong oxidizer in with but seperated from all of those matches. A small charge at the point of the barrier between the oxidizer and the matches would provide both ignition and all the mixing of the oxidizer with the flammable material.

Blast, this may be something for you to try out. It sounds like it is right up your alley. Although, it had better not be in an alley that you try it. You'll need a big open space, and time to get away.


Edited by Dan_McI (06/26/08 08:14 PM)

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#137857 - 06/26/08 10:36 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Evan]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Uhm... yeah... that WOULD be illegal.

*shakes head, grinning* Silly, silly humans.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#137863 - 06/26/08 11:41 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I'm not gonna tell you how I know this, but if you take an oxy-acetylene torch, get a good cutting flame going, tap the tip against a flat piece of steel to snuff the flame, wait a few seconds to let the tip cool, then stick it in the mouth of a baloon, fill baloon, tie it off, put the baloon in a paper sack, put the sack in the middle of an intersecton, set the bag on fire, and run like hell (VERY important), you can break windows on all four corners...
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OBG

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#137867 - 06/27/08 12:03 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
I'm not gonna tell you how I know this, but if you take an oxy-acetylene torch, get a good cutting flame going, tap the tip against a flat piece of steel to snuff the flame, wait a few seconds to let the tip cool, then stick it in the mouth of a baloon, fill baloon, tie it off, put the baloon in a paper sack, put the sack in the middle of an intersecton, set the bag on fire, and run like hell (VERY important), you can break windows on all four corners...


It sounds like you also had an interesting childhood.
_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#137869 - 06/27/08 01:05 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
clip* the sack in the middle of an intersecton, set the bag on fire, *clip


Oooh...so beautiful. So very, very beautiful...

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#137874 - 06/27/08 02:19 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Young idle minds. With a little bit of metal shop thrown in...
_________________________
OBG

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#137880 - 06/27/08 03:10 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
Now blast...Thanks for giving me something to do next time i'm at my cousins metal shop!! (:
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impossible is just the beginning

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#137896 - 06/27/08 10:53 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: climberslacker]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
heh heh heh *BOOM* heh heh heh... Fire! Fire! Heh heh....
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#137935 - 06/27/08 04:28 PM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
A friend indicates that garbage bag full of acetylene, detonated at night, can attract the attention of sheriff's deputies from a real long distance. Said friend is from Texas, and has a graduate degree in hard sciences...who do we know like that?

It appears that calcium carbide cannons are still available to the general public: http://www.cannon-mania.com/bigbang.htm

Calcium carbide reacts with water to from acetylene, useful for ripening fruit, powering a miner's lamp, and desulfurizing iron (?), and quoting wikipedia, "it is still used in the Netherlands and Belgium for a traditional custom called Carbidschieten (Shooting Carbide). To create an explosion, carbide and water are put in a milk churn with a lid. Ignition is usually done with a torch. Some villages in the Netherlands fire multiple milk churns in a row as a New Year's Eve tradition. The old tradition comes from the old pagan religion to chase off spirits."


I'm getting some for my BOB.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#137972 - 06/28/08 12:32 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I can see it now. I am sitting on my back porch one minute after midnight, sipping a toddy, and suddenly a falling milk churn falls on my bald noggin, knocking me silly...
_________________________
OBG

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#137974 - 06/28/08 12:38 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
OBG.... I literally started cracking up!!! Yeah, so when we meet up when the shtf, we should have tons of fun!! (:
_________________________
http://jacesadventures.blogspot.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
impossible is just the beginning

though i seek perfection, i wear my scars with pride

Have you seen the arrow?


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#137979 - 06/28/08 01:41 AM Re: Fire jar. [Re: climberslacker]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Life is always fun!!!
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