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#136574 - 06/18/08 01:33 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: dweste]

Preselecting an area isn't a bad idea. If nothing else, scouting it out gives you something to do while you test the bag/equipment.

#136580 - 06/18/08 02:05 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: philip]
Blast Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3633
Loc: TX
There wasn't a motel room to be had for miles and miles - all the people who were evacuated were already in all the motels. Personally, in my location I don't bet on being able to get a room in a day's drive anywhere.

That's similar to the evacuation of Houston back when Hurrican Rita was supposed to hit. Every hotel room to central Oklahoma was booked (we bugged in). That being said, in my case with two kids and a wife I'd either bunk with friends in Austin.

We are lucky in that we have friends/friends all over the country. Depending on the nature of the disaster I could find shelter with any of them. Driving to Iowa is an option if necessary.

My personal opinion is that any disater large enough send my family into the woods is almost nil and so I focus my preps in other directions. If an asteroid hits we might have some difficulty, but if a flood hits or a train carrying 10,000 gallons of sulfuric acid derails 1/4 from our house we are set.

Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

#136585 - 06/18/08 02:17 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: wildman800]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: wildman800
6) Being at West Point (or Saugerties) would get you access to clean drinking water, emergency rations, and other gov't resources. I mention Saugerties because there is a small USCG ANT Team stationed there. Port Hudson is another good destination to consider as to where to stop/dock afterwards.

I'm not going to disagree with the concept, but the costs of keeping a boat that's over 25 feet in length around, and keeping it moored accessible to Manhattan, it's not going to happen for most of us.

Good info about Saugerties.

#136587 - 06/18/08 02:21 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: Dan_McI]

I guess in my case I'm preparing for the crazy over the top emergency situations that are unlikely to ever happen because for anything else, I'd either be bugging in, driving out, or I wouldn't leave at all because I'd be involved in rescue work related to the disaster anyhow.

I've said it before and now I feel even more strongly...this is a very personal thing and we all deal with it (or don't) in a very personal way.

#136592 - 06/18/08 02:44 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: ]
Blast Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3633
Loc: TX
I've said it before and now I feel even more strongly...this is a very personal thing and we all deal with it (or don't) in a very personal way.


Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

#136593 - 06/18/08 03:10 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: Blast]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Blast
or a train carrying 10,000 gallons of sulfuric acid derails 1/4 from our house we are set.

Well, if you'd order it in smaller batches, they wouldn't need to ship it by train. smirk
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

#136596 - 06/18/08 04:00 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: ]
cajun_kw Offline

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Southern California
I always figured for any of us in any kind of relatively large urban area we'd need to be at least a little bit psychic to be able to beat the traffic jams ...and being stuck in traffic would kinda defeat the purpose in my opinion.
I have a BOB in my truck for minimal support if I can't get home, like during recent wildfires. Ideally it will provide a few days food, water, change of clothes etc by itself ... but a tent and tarp will be in the truck but aren't able to fit in the pack yet. One day though ...hopefully, since smaller lighter more compact items also are more expensive, I'll have equipment that will.
BUG-IN preps are a work in-progress and while I have a lot of things, they aren not that well organized... but again, the wildfires re-inspired me to work on getting that better organized, so that if we had to evacuate they would already be in one place to grab and go in an hour.
And any form of bugging out always meant ...in my opinion...leaving HOME for an unknown period of time ...so I wanted to have enough stuff to re-establish a new "base camp" somewhere with my supplies. Though it became obvious to me early on, that all my BUG-IN supplies could never get packed up quick enough to bug-out (something I'm working on)....unless I kept them in a huge truck that always had a huge supply of fuel to feed it. Extensive water and food supplies are expensive AND can get heavy quick. I don't have the resources for that, so smaller lighter, more compact is my current mantra. I decided to draw the line at 1 week at first ... and build on that until I ran out of vehicle cargo/storage capacity or realistic time to load it.
My wife doesn't know how much money I've got in all the stuff I've procured over the years (neither do I, but my impression is gonna be larger $$$ than hers) and I don't think I'll ever "be done". I'll just be BETTER prepared next week than I am this week, like I'm better prepared today than I was this time last year.

#136602 - 06/18/08 04:34 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: dweste]
OldBaldGuy Offline

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...you are already a nomad..."

You know, I never thought of that, but you are right!!!

#136620 - 06/18/08 05:54 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: cajun_kw]
Jeff_M Offline

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
As some of you may recall, my perspective on survivalism is heavily informed by my role as a professional disaster responder, discussed in earlier threads. Like many of you, I have been a bit of a student of the subject of survival from historical and academic perspectives, too.

In broad historic terms, the story of survivors is the story of refugees, or at least resettlers. I have never been a believer in the idea of the heavily armed nomad wandering the post-apocalyptic wasteland, heavily armed and getting by on his wits.

Much of survival is simply situational awareness combined with the foresight and flexibility to act before things get too bad. Many Jews and others had the foresight to leave Germany before about 1938, when things got really bad and it was too late to leave. Many who stayed behind thought that Germany would come to its senses, had close ties to their neighborhoods and extended families, had built up communities and business they were loath to abandon, etc., or were simply patriotic Germans who loved their country and their (vanishing) way of life and did not want to make drastic changes. In short, they would have to give up almost everything they knew, loved, and owned to risk an uncertain future in a foreign land. In short, even if they saw what was coming, they were so financially or psychologically invested in staying put and trying to maintain what they had and enjoyed to have flexibility and exercise the foresight to relocate.

On a much smaller scale, many people fail or refuse to evacuate in a timely fashion from fires, floods or hurricanes for fear of leaving their homes or personal possessions ďunguarded.Ē Likewise, others refuse to leave because they have pets, livestock or businesses to attend to. Others had fears of emergency shelters. Some of them die every year as a result.

A wise woman once told me that much of life is composed of whatever happens to you while you were busy making other plans. The point for us survivalists is that the events of life tend to overtake our best laid plans and cause those plans to go awry. Therefore, I think making, and, more importantly, being either financially or psychologically over-invested in plans that are too concrete or inflexible may be counter-productive.

So a big part of surviving is not only being able to recognize the Really Bad Thing thatís coming, but being flexible enough to act in time, perhaps in a way that involves abandoning any previously made plans, and/or everything we have known and valued in life thus far.

Thatís pretty scary. I have a very nice life, comfortable home, career, friends, etc. But Iím not willing to die for things that are really transitory anyway. Iíd hate to give it all up permanently, but I hope I would have the sense to recognize the need and do so if circumstances dictate.

We survivalists all have a pretty fair idea of what a flood, earthquake, hurricane, economic collapse would entail, and we can plan accordingly. But nobody has a really good idea of what the aftermath of a national or global and persistent apocalyptic disaster might be like. Without meaning to give offense, I donít think ďpermanentĒ or long-term survival preparations make much sense for many of us.

First, the financial investment is just too large for many of us to make a real long-term survival retreat. If you enjoy a primitive frontier, off the grid mode of living as a lifestyle choice, thatís different. Likewise, if you live a rural, agricultural oriented life, making arrangements for basic self-sufficiency fits. But most of have careers, mortgages, kids in school, etc., that make that sort of thing mainly a dream.

Second, if you do make that sort of investment, what if circumstances suddenly make it impractical? What if your retreat or family farm is ground zero? What if a band of Mad Max rogues just takes it over? What then?

Of course, the same thing applies to shorter term arrangements. Like many of us, my home is pretty well prepared, and is my planned ďbug-inĒ location, although it offers only enough for temporary survival. Itís just a suburban home, albeit a somewhat hardened one. Itís no fortress or sustenance farm.

My BOB is simply enough to get me home from my regional daily travels. I can live out of it for about three or four days, for sure. But it would also be very helpful in stretching that far longer, whether in semi-urban or wildland environments, or even in a shelter.

Which brings up the next point. Survivalism, in broad historic terms, is a community affair. Iíve never bought into the idea of the lone wolf survivalist, wandering, heavily armed, across the post-apocalyptic wasteland, or even carving a new survival homestead out of the wilderness. The real survivors, it seems to me, will be the persons with many friends and family, and useful skills and knowledge to contribute to a rebuilding community, working together.

Likewise, NOLA notwithstanding, donít disregard government assistance, at least in a typical regional, non-apocalyptic disaster. The system *usually* works pretty darn well. Donít be afraid to go to a Red Cross shelter, for example. You will be allowed to leave as soon as the immediate danger has passed. In fact, they want you to leave ASAP. No one will be forced into labor camps.

This is the short (really?) version of my survival philosophy and experience. Therefore, I do the following. I plan and make actual preparations for typical temporary emergencies, which also has value for the longer term, worse, or unexpected events. I make a few preparations with an eye to longer term events specifically. All of my really long term survival plans are essentially mental, involving careful consideration of the possibilities, but I donít do anything specific, as a practical matter.

Hereís one analytical tool I use, itís another ďRule of Threes.Ē I think in term of three seconds, three minutes, three hours, three days, three months, and three years. Some things can kill me in less than three seconds, which is why I wear my seatbelt, and also why I carry a concealed weapon. Iíll gladly give up my wallet, or my car, or my household goods, but not my life. I can survive less than three minutes without air to breathe or with severe hemorrhage. Thatís why I have life vests with knives on them to cut away entangling lines, and my FAK has tourniquets, for example. I can survive less than three days without water, which is why my BOB has water and purification equipment. More generally, I prepare for three days first, with my BOB, then for three months, with home preps, and Iím nowhere close to three years of essential supplies, although Iíd like to get there. You get the idea. After that, I plan not to plan. But I do think about ďwhat if . . .Ē

But I know that things can happen that will keep me from my BOB in the trunk of my car, or force me to abandon my home, or make any other plan or preparation Iíve made utterly useless. In that case, I will have to fall back on only my skills, knowledge, wits, friends and family, flexibility, endurance, random chance, and faith.

I welcome comments, criticisms, and contrary views.


#136623 - 06/18/08 06:11 PM Re: Bugging Out: The Nomad vs Base Camp [Re: Jeff_M]
dweste Offline

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Good one, Jeff!

I hope you and yours never have to use any survival stuff.

Do you have any thoughts on evacuation to a specific, pre-planned location?


Edited by dweste (06/18/08 09:07 PM)

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