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#136257 - 06/16/08 04:40 PM Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
I want you all to take a look at this image, which I grabbed from the CNN.com home page a few moments ago:



That is a cop, with his finger on the trigger of what appears to be a Glock pistol, and that gun is pointed at an individual in the red and white vehicle.

Notice also the cop at the left, with an extended spring-whip baton. Behind them all, notice the soldier, in cammo.

I don't know what led up to this moment, I do know that the headline and article indicate that people are attempting to return to flooded locations, and are being denied access.

If any one image has reiterated the need to ensure that you have what you NEED and what you WANT ready to go quickly, this is it.

I long ago packed my long-term stuff in airport style rolling cases, right next to my fire safe. I store all critical documents mirrored on to EXTERNAL hard drives so that's all I need to grab on the way out the door, if needed.

If we were told to go, any time of the day, 24/7, we could, in 10 minutes or less and as much as I'd miss my house, we'd have what we need to get by.

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#136260 - 06/16/08 04:47 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
First, good for you.

Second, what system should be in place to deal with the situation where you are away from home when the emergency occurs and you are denied access back to your home?

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#136261 - 06/16/08 04:49 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Blast Online   happy
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3594
Loc: TX
Wow, talk about a 1,000 words!

Time to check our BOB's to make sure DD1&2's emergency clothes still fit. They outgrow stuff so fast.

Thank's for the very intense reminder.

-Blast
_________________________
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Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#136264 - 06/16/08 05:08 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Notice also the cop at the left, with an extended spring-whip baton. Behind them all, notice the soldier, in camo.

Don't forget the last officer, on the driver's side. Looks like Samuel L. Jackson. I wouldn't want to mess with Samuel L. Jackson with a gun pointed at my head either.

All kidding aside, that's a tough situation--both for the authorities trying to keep people safe and minimize looting, and for the people desperate to get to their homes and businesses to salvage stuff, take care of pets, etc.

Since flooding is such a common disaster, I keep telling myself that I need to make sure to pick a bank on high ground if I'm going to put important documents in a safety deposit box. I still may not be able to get into the bank for a while, but at least the contents will be high and dry. Then again, if the entire area is flood prone...

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#136270 - 06/16/08 05:32 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
There are so many things wrong with that picture (tactics wise) that I just don't know where to start...
_________________________
OBG

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#136272 - 06/16/08 05:34 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Wow. Crazy.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#136280 - 06/16/08 05:52 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Nicodemus]
Angel Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 192
Keep in mind that this is from CNN. Don't be too quick to judge the cops. Unless I see what the person in the truck is doing, i'll give the cops the benefit of the doubt. It is possible the driver of the truck is upset and making threats. Who knows. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but they may be the wrong words. Tomorrow you may see a picture of the driver of the truck with a gun pointed at the cop and it will be a totally different headline.Don't believe everything you read and only half of what you see.

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#136282 - 06/16/08 05:59 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Angel]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
I think my point is that you never know what wil happen at a checkpoint. I staffed a checkpoint when we had floods, and had a guy drive straight at me and another firefighter when we refused to let him pass. He was arrested, and I pressed charges and he did a short amount of time for it. It's best to just stay the hell away.


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#136284 - 06/16/08 06:10 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Angel]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Rule number somethingorother...Do Not Stand In Front Of A Vehicle. 'Specially if the driver is mad, upset, drunk, crazy, etc...
_________________________
OBG

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#136287 - 06/16/08 06:13 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: OldBaldGuy]
jmarkantes Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 138
Loc: Portland, OR, USA
There is a bit more to it;
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/16/iowa.floods/index.html
Quote:
After being denied re-entry to a flooded neighborhood, Rick Blazek, 53, returned to his vehicle as a state trooper used his police vehicle to block the checkpoint, according to the news release.

"Blazek drove his vehicle toward the state trooper and struck the state trooper three times with his vehicle," the release said.

Police told Blazek to get out of his vehicle, and when he refused, "the driver's window was broken out because the doors were locked and Blazek was removed from his vehicle," according to the release.

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#136290 - 06/16/08 06:35 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: jmarkantes]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: jmarkantes
There is a bit more to it;
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/16/iowa.floods/index.html
Quote:
After being denied re-entry to a flooded neighborhood, Rick Blazek, 53, returned to his vehicle as a state trooper used his police vehicle to block the checkpoint, according to the news release.

"Blazek drove his vehicle toward the state trooper and struck the state trooper three times with his vehicle," the release said.

Police told Blazek to get out of his vehicle, and when he refused, "the driver's window was broken out because the doors were locked and Blazek was removed from his vehicle," according to the release.


Hmm...you know, it's amazing to me how stuff like this even gets to this point.

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#136294 - 06/16/08 07:25 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: ]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
From the article:
Quote:

"They have Red Cross, police department, fire department, and the people who they brought in -- the Marines and stuff, the National Guard -- have been excellent," she said. "They are keeping us out of our homes even though we're getting upset with them. We have no right because they're trying to protect us."

Am I too radical or is something wrong with that?

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#136295 - 06/16/08 07:32 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: ]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I have a neighbor, about the same age as idiot citizen Blazek, who would respond the same way. I know his (idiot) mother, and she gave him everything his little heart desired all his life. She is still paying his rent, and insurance on his five late-madel cars, and giving him multiple-thousand-dollar gifts. He no longer has his fairly lucrative job with the state because he punched out his supervisor. He lost his house because he decided that his cars were worth more than the fairly large equity he had in his nice home. He nearly punched out his new FIL (who had just had spinal surgery) when he had a temper tantrum in FIL's home, stopped because FIL swore he would have him jailed if he touched him. His teenaged son is becoming just like him.

There are more and more people like this, any LEO's nightmare. Spoiled, totally self-centered, dangerous. They probably look normal until you set them off (and it can be anything that does it).

If they will attack a police officer, they will probably do no less to a regular citizen. Their self-restraint has been short-circuited.

Sue

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#136298 - 06/16/08 08:12 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Susan]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...If they will attack a police officer, they will probably do no less to a regular citizen..."

With a few minor exceptions, YOU GOT IT!!!
_________________________
OBG

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#136303 - 06/16/08 08:44 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Still_Alive Offline
Finally, I am a
Member

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Utah
Looks like the cops showed amazing restraint in this situation. After striking a cop 3 times with his car, this guy's lucky to be among the living.
_________________________
“Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival.”
W. Edwards Deming

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#136317 - 06/16/08 09:51 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Nishnabotna]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Nishnabotna

Am I too radical or is something wrong with that?


If you are, I'm right there with you comrade.

I don't blame the cops for dragging someone out of a vehicle after they've been bumped. But I think they should be looking at vehicles leaving with stuff like TVs in retail boxes rather than stressing about one guy trying to get back in SO LONG AS he doesn't seem to be a nut. Like this guy.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#136325 - 06/16/08 10:42 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
In a situation like this, if someone is able to prove they're a resident, why not let'em risk their own lives? (With a clear warning beforehand that rescue will not be available) Looting is one thing. Denying someone the right to access their property, no matter what the conditions, is another.

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#136339 - 06/17/08 12:08 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2828
Loc: La-USA
My reasons for needing a fast mobilization:
(denotes my experiences)

1) Nuclear Industrial Accident, Nuclear ICBM Attack; Nuclear Terrorist Attack:
(1962 Cuban Missile crisis, Duck & Cover Drills @ elementary school)

2) Hurricanes:
(Hurricanes: Betsy, Camille, Andrew, Lilly, Katrina, Rita)

3) Tornadoes:
(During hurricanes)

4) Highway Accident involving Hazardous or Explosive Materials:
(Too many to keep track of when living next to an Interstate Highway)

5) Railroad Accident involving Hazardous or Explosive Materials:
(Hazmat: May2008/Lafayette, La Explosive: Feb1968/Laurel, Ms)

6) Civil Unrest/Martial Law:
(Limited Martial Law/Feb1968/Laurel, Ms)

There are many more reasons to be ready for a fast mobilization, IMHHO (In My Honest Humble Opinion)
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#136352 - 06/17/08 01:01 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: LED]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
If ordered to keep "residents" out, I am going to do my best. But I am NOT going to stand in front of any vehicle, and for sure not long enough to let the driver hit me THREE times! If I happen to get hit once, that is one thing, but unless I am flat on the ground, I am gonna get out of the way after that first hit. And then drag the driver out the windwing. But I will not get myself hurt to keep some dummy from going home. There are other ways to deal with him/her...
_________________________
OBG

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#136353 - 06/17/08 01:07 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: wildman800]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Stuff like this has got me rethinking my own choices regarding CCW (the wack-job in the truck, not the LEO's who would've been justified in shooting him).

I don't have an issue with a responsible adult legally carrying though I have chosen not to do that myself.

I'm starting to reconsider my decision on this given events of the last couple of years.

I'll have to start reviewing the older threads to see what y'all have recommended for consideration.

What fits well in a Fatboy???

_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#136361 - 06/17/08 01:30 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: samhain]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
OBG,
I think the officer was in his cruiser, the cruiser took the hits. People see their life falling apart and LE stops them from going home to do something about it(their thoughts, not mine), rational thought can easily be tossed aside.

samhain,
A Glock G-19 is a nice size, not too small, but certainly not big. I'd prefer .45ACP or a 12 ga shotgun in some situations, but the G-19 is reliable with all 9mm JHP ammo I've tried and recoil is mild.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#136411 - 06/17/08 01:46 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Rule number somethingorother...Do Not Stand In Front Of A Vehicle. 'Specially if the driver is mad, upset, drunk, crazy, etc...

Smart Rule. Driver floors it, the officer in front of it will understand what pain is, even if he gets the chance to fire. Sigh
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#136419 - 06/17/08 02:04 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: LED]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
I'll tell you why.

True event.

Back in the floods of 2004, right about as the river is about to crest, a guy comes to the check point with a Kayak on his roof, and demands that we let him through, he's a resident, he's going to check on his house, which we know is already under water.
There's leaking 800 gallons propane tanks and whole trees and oil and paint and swearage in the water, it's a mess. The river is running at about 30 MPH, FAST and the shoreline is collapsing in places.
But he's got ID, his home is on the river. We let him through.

Exactly 14 minutes later, we get a 911 call for a water rescue. This dumbass got 50 yards from where he put in, got pushed into the top of a tree, was stuck and the water is still coming up. He managed to call 911 and then dropped his phone in the river.

So me and two other guys end up in a boat, with the bow facing upriver, throttle nearly wide open just to hold us in place under him. In case we lost engine, we had a 600' line secured to the bow and a crew up on the rapidly vanishing shore ready to pull us back up with an engine if needed. It was a fast rescue - we cut the limb of the tree he was stuck in with a chainsaw and let him drop a bit into the boat, but we were mad.

Later that day I realized we were also idiots for letting him through, because we will not ignore a call for a living person in distress, so the only other option we have is to not let them get into distress.

The point is this - in times of clear and present danger the normal rules of freedom are - supposed to be temporarily - suspended. Mandatory evacuations are difficult to do, and nobody wants them. But when they happen, they mean mandatory.


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#136421 - 06/17/08 02:07 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Russ]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Russ
OBG,

A Glock G-19 is a nice size, not too small, but certainly not big. I'd prefer .45ACP or a 12 ga shotgun in some situations, but the G-19 is reliable with all 9mm JHP ammo I've tried and recoil is mild.


Just FYI: You pull a gun at a checkpoint and you're going to the morgue in multiple sandwich-sized ziplock bags. No joke.



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#136429 - 06/17/08 02:20 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: jmarkantes]
Henry_Porter Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 111
Thanks for posting this, Martin. My take-away is pretty much as you stated in your original post: good idea to be prepared to evacuate with key documents, etc. at the ready. I need to do this now.

Regarding evacuations, my personal tendencies are:

1. comply with authority
2. distrust authority

I realize specific situations require on-the-spot decisions. I realize foolish or distraught people sometimes rush into harm's way and thereby put rescuers' lives at risk.

But I am VERY wary of militarized public servants as well as hired mercenaries (e.g., Blackwater during Katrina) who are conditioned to think of citizens as "civilians" whose rights can be suspended "temporarily" for their own "protection."

Part of my readiness preparation is to plan routes, understand local laws, and to monitor local and state emergency plans.

Kudos to fellow citizens who serve honorably and who volunteer to serve.

Nishabotna, I'm with you. I'm troubled at how quickly free people relinquish their liberty to "experts" and "officials." I'm gravely concerned about the national character of the U.S.A.
-----

"Government is good at one thing: It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, 'See, if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk.'" - Harry Browne, April 11, 2002


Edited by Henry_Porter (06/17/08 02:41 PM)
Edit Reason: to clarify

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#136430 - 06/17/08 02:21 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...pull a gun at a checkpoint and you're going to the morgue in multiple sandwich-sized ziplock bags..."

Yup. How many holes will depend on how many officers are there, 'cuz most of the time, when one shoots, they all shoot...
_________________________
OBG

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#136431 - 06/17/08 02:35 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
Nice editing of your quote of my post. Who said anything about pulling a gun at a checkpoint?

OBG made it sound like the officer was standing in front of the SUV which I;m pretty sure was not the case. Samhain asked a question re firearms (What fits well in a Fatboy???) and I provided an opinion.

How did that become "You pull a gun at a checkpoint"?
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#136445 - 06/17/08 03:11 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Russ]
BillLiptak Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 259
Personally I don't think the citizens of the United States should ever have their rights suspended "for their own good". If they want to go into the flood zone that badly, let them. Tell them the risks and have them sign a waiver, to cover legal a$$es that might be seen as libel, telling them that NO 911/rescue will be available. They know of all the risks and consequences of their actions. If they die so be it. Darwinism at work.

-Bill Liptak

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#136453 - 06/17/08 03:47 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: BillLiptak]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Maybe it's just me but if my rights are "temporarily suspended", so is my obligation to recognize and obey civil authority. It's a two-way street as far as I'm concerned. I certainly wouldn't be dumb enough to confront several armed men at a checkpoint but that doesn't mean I won't be going wherever I believe I need to go.

I've known more than a few LEOs who were fine ethical people but even they had to earn my trust. Given the long and consistent history of corruption and organized criminal enterprise within police departments (many of which started as sanctioned street gangs and really haven't changed much), I no longer give "the police" the benefit of doubt.


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#136454 - 06/17/08 03:51 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: BillLiptak]
Blast Online   happy
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3594
Loc: TX
Quote:
If they want to go into the flood zone that badly, let them.


The downside to this is what if they want back in so they can loot other houses in the area? I live in a nice neighborhood, but I know it has some very bad seeds in it. I wouldn't want them roaming around knowing the cops and most people are elsewhere. eek How do you guarantee the people going back won't be breaking into other houses?

As for the liability waiver, maybe we could make it a requirement that they have to bring a lawyer with them into the danger zone.

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#136457 - 06/17/08 04:04 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Blast]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY
"As for the liability waiver, maybe we could make it a requirement that they have to bring a lawyer with them into the danger zone."


That's an underhanded solution. You know that by the time they finish negotiating the terms of the waiver, the flood will be over. smile

Instead of refusing to provide resuce, why not just make them post a bond for the cost of the rescue (or funeral)?

But seriously, the point of the OP is well taken. A good BOB will save you the problems of having to confront overworked, exhausted law enforcement officers at a checkpoint AND of having to risk your life if they do allow you back into a dangerous and fluid situation.

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#136460 - 06/17/08 04:06 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: DesertFox]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I don't know of anybody in a rescue organization that would let somebody die because they signed a piece of paper and be able to live with themselves. As a SAR volunteer, I'm just that, a volunteer. I'm not obligated to do anything I'm not confortable with...but I do have moral obligations as a human being.

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#136484 - 06/17/08 06:47 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: ]
Taurus Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 458
Loc: Northern Canada
Since my trip to Texas was put on hold, I will spend the afternoon here rather than doing work. I am pissed.....I really wanted to see Texas. Oh well....soon.

Anyway.

I worked the Quebec ice storms, Winnipeg floods, and the BC fires to assist the police and rescue agencies in evacuating people or bringing in supplies etc. We have vehicles that most agencies don't have that are useful for such aid to civil power operations. Most people were really happy to get out of danger and were really understanding. Others I really, really wanted to shoot a few times.

Theres always one in every bunch who serves no other purpose but to make life difficult for those who are just trying to do their job.

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#136510 - 06/18/08 01:00 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Taurus]
Kris Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 623
Loc: A Canadian in the UK
Originally Posted By: Taurus

Theres always one in every bunch who serves no other purpose but to make life difficult for those who are just trying to do their job.


Its so true that I couldn't of said it better...
_________________________
"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything"
William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#136512 - 06/18/08 01:35 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Russ]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Russ
Nice editing of your quote of my post. Who said anything about pulling a gun at a checkpoint?


Sorry, I didn't mean to attribute that to you, user error here.

My point was we're talking about checkpoints, someone brings up guns while in the discussion (samhain) and having worked a checkpoint, I tend to connect the dots, maybe a little too fast, and presumes that the author of the post about what guns to get (not you, Samhain) was implying that he needed greater firepower to bypass a checkpoint. If that was not the intended direction, my apologies. No offense intended, and I hope none taken. Again, not my intention to paint you in a bad light.

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#136513 - 06/18/08 01:50 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Spiritwalker]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Spiritwalker
Maybe it's just me but if my rights are "temporarily suspended", so is my obligation to recognize and obey civil authority. It's a two-way street as far as I'm concerned. I certainly wouldn't be dumb enough to confront several armed men at a checkpoint but that doesn't mean I won't be going wherever I believe I need to go.


Then you have absolutely no idea what a "state of emergency" means. In a state of emergency you have very limited rights. Under martial law, you have almost none.

More importantly, in any of these situations, it's not at all a "two-way street" in that sense of obligation to obey exists between the public and the representatives of law enforcement. It never was a two-way street, it never will be. While YOU might believe you need to go to place X, when a perimeter is set up at the scene of an emergency, you have absolutely no legal authority to cross into the scene. What's more, the law grants the right to use force - in varying degrees and in some cases all the way to deadly force - to prevent anyone from entering the scene of a declared emergency. And in those situations, it's the person attempting the bypass the perimeter who is wrong in the eyes of the law.

I posted the picture from CNN to stimulate this bit of reality-based planning, in the hopes that seeing what happens in real life, in a peaceful place like Iowa, would remind us all that we need to think hard about what it means to "go" when directed, and what it means to "go" when you can't get back, even if you need to.

It's not my intention to have this decay into an argument over civil rights or to entertain the idea that there's a good reason to risk lives to save homes that are under water.

My point, and I hope we all take it to heart, is that in the case of a large-scale natural disaster, are you ready to go and not need to attempt to get back until the "all clear" is sounded?

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#136514 - 06/18/08 01:52 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: DesertFox]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Because you can't tell the looters from the homeowners. You can't tell the thrill-seekers from the folk who left their prescriptions behind. You can't tell the lunatic who'll sue everyone because they caught hepatitis from some sludge from the guy who's hoping to find his dog.

That's why we close down flood zones.


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#136533 - 06/18/08 04:18 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Quote:
martinfocazio


We obviously have differing philosophical perspectives concerning individual rights. Having dealt with various government and LEO agencies both professionally and personally through the years, I'll keep my own council concerning recognition of and obedience to civil or military authority in an emergency situation and accept any consequences of the decisions I make.

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#136567 - 06/18/08 12:38 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
No harm. This is probably not a good thread to discuss bug-out firearms.

Irrational behavior should be expected during states of emergency. I took samhain's firearm thought as a means to deal with irrational behavior much as the officers in that picture. The driver is fortunate the officers showed as much restraint as they did.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#136573 - 06/18/08 01:31 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Russ]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1777
being employed by a emergency service, it's amazing how often people simply ignore us. Some people even ignore basic instructions. Mine favorite example in The Netherlands are the sirenes. We use them to alert people to close windows and doors, incase of haz-mat situation. Somehow a portion of the people simply ignore it and a suprising amount of people go out and watch whats happening. I have even seen people bringing there kids outside to watch.

Well there will always be people, that know better. Somehow i'm not very motivated to fix there problems...
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#136590 - 06/18/08 02:38 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
I think the key is the misnomer "for your own safety".

As several volunteers have stated here, they will not ignore a call for help, no matter how stupid the victim is. They will put their own lives in danger to try to save yours.

So before you get all huffed up about YOUR rights, think about your moral obligation to not selfishly put others in danger.

In other words, stay out of a disaster area for the sake of the safety of those that will try to bail you out no matter what.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#136603 - 06/18/08 04:35 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: thseng]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Sorry, while I do get the point that the OP was trying to make about readiness I will not give up any of my rights, especially under the guise of "protection."
That being said, I probably wouldn't try to break thru a check point because I do understand the risks (not just from irate cops, but the situations described) and I do think that thseng is correct about obligations to others.
But the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.

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#136606 - 06/18/08 04:44 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
paramedicpete Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Is there or has there been an extensive public education program on the meaning of the sirens? Could simply be the citizens are unaware of the meaning of the sirens?

In our area, most rural Fire Departments still blow the house siren routinely at noon and at other times to alert the volunteers to respond to the station or scene of an incident, so hearing one is fairly common and does not require any action by the residents. In some areas, certain siren patterns and/or length of siren may indicate some type of incident that requires the resident to take some action, but I would venture to guess with all of the relocation and growth that occurs, most of the newer residents would have no clue as to what the siren patterns indicated.

Our Fire Departments located within the larger communities no longer blow the house siren, so if it goes off it would be something of which to take notice. However, the effective distance of the sirens would most likely make them almost useless, except in the immediate area of the stations and most residents would likely be clueless as to their meaning. We simply no longer rely upon these sirens for alerting the residents.

Now, where I work at Ft. Detrick, there is a fairly extensive distribution of sirens/public announcement speakers and most workers do know to listen for the siren and any accompanying announcement. Living only a couple of blocks from the front gate, we are able to hear these from our home.

Pete

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#136609 - 06/18/08 05:00 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Nishnabotna]
Blast Online   happy
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3594
Loc: TX
Quote:
the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.


Could you clarify whether you mean your interests in particular or the overall interest of society? The two concepts can quite often be at odds.

-Blast
_________________________
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#136616 - 06/18/08 05:42 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Blast]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.


Could you clarify whether you mean your interests in particular or the overall interest of society? The two concepts can quite often be at odds.

-Blast

Ha, good point. Short answer is my own interests - they intersect with societies interests more often than not.
But we could split hairs all day long in a debate like that. Suffice to say that I lean towards libertarianism.

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#136624 - 06/18/08 06:11 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: paramedicpete]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1777
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Is there or has there been an extensive public education program on the meaning of the sirens? Could simply be the citizens are unaware of the meaning of the sirens?

In our area, most rural Fire Departments still blow the house siren routinely at noon and at other times to alert the volunteers to respond to the station or scene of an incident, so hearing one is fairly common and does not require any action by the residents. In some areas, certain siren patterns and/or length of siren may indicate some type of incident that requires the resident to take some action, but I would venture to guess with all of the relocation and growth that occurs, most of the newer residents would have no clue as to what the siren patterns indicated.

Our Fire Departments located within the larger communities no longer blow the house siren, so if it goes off it would be something of which to take notice. However, the effective distance of the sirens would most likely make them almost useless, except in the immediate area of the stations and most residents would likely be clueless as to their meaning. We simply no longer rely upon these sirens for alerting the residents.

Now, where I work at Ft. Detrick, there is a fairly extensive distribution of sirens/public announcement speakers and most workers do know to listen for the siren and any accompanying announcement. Living only a couple of blocks from the front gate, we are able to hear these from our home.

Pete


Well there was a extensive education program and every first Monday of the month they are tested, so people know how they sound like. They are not use for anything else and nothing else sounds like it. They are stand alone sirens, though. So announcements are not made from these sirens, but on the local radio and TV channel.

The people standing outside watching knows what the sirens mean. People have ask them, if they knew what the sirens mend, they do. But knowing what you are suppose to do and actually do the thing you are suppose to do are unfortunately two different things. I guess that most people don't take the sirens serious, because nobody has died or injured from not listen... yet.

Sometimes you can say that people here are to safe and protected, so people are not prepared for disasters at all.


Edited by PC2K (06/18/08 06:13 PM)
_________________________


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#136645 - 06/18/08 08:11 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Saying or even believing that someone is acting “in the interest of public safety” and them actually doing so are two different things.

CNN report on New Orleans LEOs involved in looting.

Quote:

...The hotel's owner, Osman Khan, told CNN that on the night of August 29, when the city flooded, 70 police officers had moved into his Canal Street hotel. He said that 62 went out to fight looters and thugs on the streets, while eight launched a four-day drinking and looting binge.

"They'd leave [at] nine or 10 at night and come back 4:30 in the morning," carrying "everything from Adidas shoes to Rolex watches," Khan said.

The eight officers were drinking almost all of the time, said hotel engineer Perry Emery, and when he came to the men's 10th floor room to bring towels, he saw "jewelry, generators, fans."

"One time they came back with a bunch of weapons," Emery said. He said he had no doubts about what he witnessed: "These were New Orleans police officers -- looting."


Strange isn't it that the 62 other trained police officers staying in that hotel never noticed or took any action against their criminal colleagues?

Government Emergency Shelter?

Quote:

Tired, hungry and traumatised by days spent under the damaged roof of a once-gleaming football stadium, the refugees of New Orleans have spoken of a nightmarish week living among the crazed and the desperate.

Stories of rape, murder and suicide have emerged.


Of course these reports are mostly "unconfirmed" and/or denied by "officials". Anyone familiar with complaints or reports of wrong doing against government organizations or agencies can attest to the amazing reliability in which those reports cannot be "confirmed" by internal investigations, unless of course you have video-taped evidence. (Coincidently, the use of cameras and audio-tape recorders are prohibited in government facilities and tapes made by internal surveillance cameras "disappear" with disturbing regularity.)

In any case, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP about having “A Fast Mobilization Plan“. Part of that plan for me is the avoidance of contact with “civil and military authorities” as much as is possible, even if that means disregarding “official instructions and emergency proclamations”.

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#136682 - 06/18/08 11:52 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Originally Posted By: Russ
Nice editing of your quote of my post. Who said anything about pulling a gun at a checkpoint?


Sorry, I didn't mean to attribute that to you, user error here.

My point was we're talking about checkpoints, someone brings up guns while in the discussion (samhain) and having worked a checkpoint, I tend to connect the dots, maybe a little too fast, and presumes that the author of the post about what guns to get (not you, Samhain) was implying that he needed greater firepower to bypass a checkpoint. If that was not the intended direction, my apologies. No offense intended, and I hope none taken. Again, not my intention to paint you in a bad light.


No problem at all Martin, no offense taken.

Just to clarify: I was not thinking about using a firearm to bypass a checkpoint (I may be crazy but I ain't stooopid) crazy .

Any bug out preps are to eliminate the need for us to have to return to the area before it's safe.

To my way of thinking a checkpoint is there to protect me and mine as much as protecting everyone else and I cooperate with LEOs 150%.

It was the idiot in the truck trying to force his way through that caused me to pause. I just had an image in my head of being on a dark highway with my DW and DD with some guy like that around (someone I perceive as not having any respect for the safety of LEO's much less me).
_________________________
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samhain autumnwood

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#136704 - 06/19/08 03:11 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: thseng]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Originally Posted By: thseng

...So before you get all huffed up about YOUR rights, think about your moral obligation to not selfishly put others in danger...


Speaking just for myself, It's not likely that I would prepare to take care of myself and those I care about or be spending much time on a emergency/disaster preparedness website if I were inclined to "selfishly put others in danger".

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#136735 - 06/19/08 10:58 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: BillLiptak]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2847
Originally Posted By: BillLiptak
Personally I don't think the citizens of the United States should ever have their rights suspended "for their own good". If they want to go into the flood zone that badly, let them. Tell them the risks and have them sign a waiver, to cover legal a$$es that might be seen as libel, telling them that NO 911/rescue will be available. They know of all the risks and consequences of their actions. If they die so be it. Darwinism at work.

-Bill Liptak


I was just about to say the same thing. On one hand I understand the LEO's not wanting to allow people into a dangerous area since they will be called upon to rescue them shortly, but if people sitll insist upon going then they need to provide all their phone numbers they might call from so their calls for rescue can be ignored.

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#136737 - 06/19/08 11:07 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2847
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio

I store all critical documents mirrored on to EXTERNAL hard drives so that's all I need to grab on the way out the door, if needed.


You need to test this, I used to do the same and took just my external drive to my parents home one day. I found out their microsoft works could not open my microsoft word or excel documents and the microsoft money, access and publicher are even worse because you have to have the same version. So I made some changes such as switching to open source software that can also run from the drive (portableapps.com) so I didn't need any install cd's and when I was shopping for a new computer bought the smallest lightest laptop I cold afford (at 3.5lbs its not much more heavy than an external drive). With the laptop if I need to bug out I take it and can start working in any place I stop at be it my bug out location or hotel without needing to find something to plug my drive in to. I actually have an old HP portable printer in my long term gear for if I would need that now as well, I picked it up for $5.

I also stopped using safe deposit boxes after seeing NOLA figuring any near enough to me would suffer from the same disaster that forced me to bug out so I have my important documents stored at my bug out location.

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#136744 - 06/19/08 01:01 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Eugene]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
I won't own anything but a laptop. I take the whole computer.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#136767 - 06/19/08 03:40 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Russ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2847
Thats basically my point, replace the desktop and external stuff with a small laptop that can fit in a bob. Mine fits in an 8.5"x11"x1" case that looks like a paper planner and easily slides down in the backpack that is my bob. I forsee the real need to bug out being more of a NOLA situation rather than the end of the world. Those situations your going to be bugging out to a hotel short term or an apartment long term and you may need to get up an running fast and won't have anything to plug just a drive in to. For that matter I wouldn't plug a drive on mine into anyone elses computer anyway, never know what you might pick up as there are so much virus and other malware out there. They you need to have all the software installs available. But with a laptop you just need power, plug in at the hotel and boot up no trying to find/borrow/buy another computer to plug a drive in to.

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#137274 - 06/23/08 01:36 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Eugene]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Eugene

So I made some changes such as switching to open source software that can also run from the drive (portableapps.com) so I didn't need any install cd's and when I was shopping for a new computer bought the smallest lightest laptop I cold afford (at 3.5lbs its not much more heavy than an external drive). With the laptop if I need to bug out I take it and can start working in any place I stop at be it my bug out location or hotel without needing to find something to plug my drive in to. I actually have an old HP portable printer in my long term gear for if I would need that now as well, I picked it up for $5.


I can't say enough good stuff aout Portableapps.com

I've been keeping in touch with John Haller, the mastermind behind the site, since the very first release of Portable Apps.

Even better is to use OpenOffice.org (called Neooffice on the Mac). This is the only 100% cross-platform fully functional office application there is. (Openoffice portable edition will run from a USB stick or external drive just fine).

The most important thing you need to do with your data is SYNCH it with as many storage tools as you can. I am a big user of Google Docs especially with their Synch tools.

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#137276 - 06/23/08 01:40 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Eugene]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Thats basically my point, replace the desktop and external stuff with a small laptop that can fit in a bob.


I have one of these in the Linux model, tweaked a bit to get to the full linux desktop.

The finest little gizmo I own.

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#137280 - 06/23/08 01:54 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Eugene]
el_diabl0 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 301
Loc: NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: BillLiptak
Personally I don't think the citizens of the United States should ever have their rights suspended "for their own good". If they want to go into the flood zone that badly, let them. Tell them the risks and have them sign a waiver, to cover legal a$$es that might be seen as libel, telling them that NO 911/rescue will be available. They know of all the risks and consequences of their actions. If they die so be it. Darwinism at work.

-Bill Liptak


I was just about to say the same thing. On one hand I understand the LEO's not wanting to allow people into a dangerous area since they will be called upon to rescue them shortly, but if people sitll insist upon going then they need to provide all their phone numbers they might call from so their calls for rescue can be ignored.


Our rights, by their very nature, cannot be suspended:

Inalienable rights
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term inalienable rights (or unalienable rights) refers to a theoretical set of individual human rights that by their nature cannot be taken away, violated, or transferred from one person to another. They are considered more fundamental than alienable rights, such as rights in a specific piece of property.

Inalienable (Individual) Rights are: natural rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are the most fundamental set of human rights, natural means not-granted nor conditional. They are applicable only to humans, as the basic necessity of their survival.
_________________________
Improvise, adapt, and overcome

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#137310 - 06/23/08 04:19 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: el_diabl0]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: el_diabl0

Our rights, by their very nature, cannot be suspended:

But they are very easily given up.

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#137312 - 06/23/08 04:48 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Nishnabotna]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Nishnabotna
Originally Posted By: el_diabl0

Our rights, by their very nature, cannot be suspended:

But they are very easily given up.


and they can be taken away, unless someone is willing to risk "cold dead hands" to keep them.

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#137973 - 06/28/08 12:33 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 586
Loc: FL, USA
During Hurricane Charley, we had Nat Guard assisting with many things...one of them was traffic control....Long story short...when the nice police officer tells you to stop...STOP! If not then you rist the reaction of one of the Guardsman....He leveled the M16 at the car faster than you could imagine....boy oh boy did that car STOP!!!!! No traffic problems after that.

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#138429 - 07/02/08 10:34 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: CJK]
paulr Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 448
Re the computer storage stuff, I can't understand why anyone would have more than a few gigabytes of critical documents (word files, scans, photos, etc). Yes we have multi-hundred gb hard drives but those tend to be full of replaceable media files.

I always say to burn encrypted copies of the important stuff to cd or dvd in multiple copies and store them in geographically dispersed places, i.e. mail them to friends or relatives to save for you (and you do the same for them). This stuff about grabbing laptops or hard drives while dashing through a flood just seems too random. If you really do want to take it with you, a 16GB USB memory stick that fits in your pocket is about 50 bucks these days and seems a lot easier.


Edited by paulr (07/02/08 10:34 AM)

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#138432 - 07/02/08 11:20 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: CJK]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: CJK
...when the nice police officer tells you to stop...STOP!


IMO, good advice for any encounter with LEOs. Do what you are told. If you think that your rights have been violated, sue (later). A confrontation or worse with an LEO on the street will inevitably end up with you losing. We have a number of LEOs on the forum, and I'm sure they can tell many stories about how when they are looking for/chasing an armed felon and run into someone who fits the description (but later turns out is not the bad guy)and who decides that his rights are being violated and argue/resist the officers. Not a good situation.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#138437 - 07/02/08 12:24 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: paulr]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: paulr
Yes we have multi-hundred gb hard drives but those tend to be full of replaceable media files.


I can cite four examples of where this is not the case for me:

a) iTunes purchased music & video. Once you download these, you (generally) can't do it again. For a few years, we bought a lot of media from Apple via their iTunes store, with music and video it's about 60GB of data I can't replace with a re-download.

b) Family Videos. I have about 200GB of family videos, dating back to the 1980's as transferred from old VHS tape, Mini-DV and more recently SD cards in various digital cameras. I can't get those back, especially the old VHS tapes which have degraded to the point where they don't play.

c) Scans of bank statements, health expenses, utility bills and the like going back to 2000. That's about 10 GB right there - I scan to 300 DPI TIFF, usually, for best print reproduction and ease of conversion to other formats.

d) Family Photos. We shoot at 3 megapixels, normally, and occasionally at 6 Megapixels. Our photo library, which includes originals and modified versions of images, is currently 64GB.

All told, my media library, plus misc documents, work related stuff, and so on, weighs in at around 500 Gigabytes. Fortunately, USB disks are relatively low cost so that's not an issue. Every computer gets it's own USB drive of about the same capacity of the internal drive.

I'm a big fan of automated external disk storage, as we tend to use laptops a lot. On the Mac side, we use SuperDuper, which makes a bootable image of the entire disk, this is by far the way we like to make things work. We do have a couple of PC's, these back up only the "My Documents" directory to external USB Drives, as these are single-user machines, that's all I care about.
Two systems run Ubuntu 8.04, and for that, I have sbackup running, which is more than good enough.

EVERYTHING also backs up to a 500GB disk (it's actually 2x 500GB disks, set up as RAID1) set up as Network Attached Storage, that disk array is actually located in a small refrigerator out in the shed, along with a set of DVD's with a backup of applications. That's the "house burns down" storage center. Very old media, stuff that isn't likely to change, is also burned off to DVD where possible, many of the files are too large for optical media (especially home videos), so they live on Magnetic Media.

It's a lot of work running a data center at home.

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#138440 - 07/02/08 01:00 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Martin, that sounds like way too much work for me. However, much of it also sounds like it's not a bad idea, and I should back up a lot more things than I do. Most of our data is simply kept in its original form. So, you might be inspiring me to do something with it. I'm not there yet, but maybe it will happen. You're certainly mroe on top of this stuff than I am.

My question is what happens when something serious happens on your property. I know Bucks County is not exactly in tornado alley, but if all your data, video and photos are all within a short distance of each other, isn't there some vulnerability. Isn't there something that could happen and destroy it all within a short time?

I want my photographs a few states away, and in the hands of a few different trusted friends or family. I don't think anything will happen in Colorado, Minnesota and New York within a short time. If one set of DVDs might be destroyed, I can always burn another. I should follow your example and add more things to what I back up and get to other locations.

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#138453 - 07/02/08 02:26 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Dan_McI]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI

My question is what happens when something serious happens on your property. I know Bucks County is not exactly in tornado alley, but if all your data, video and photos are all within a short distance of each other, isn't there some vulnerability. Isn't there something that could happen and destroy it all within a short time?


For me, it's about Fire & Wind. The main thing is that the External USB drives connect for backup, and then go into the fire safe - a MEDIA RATED fire safe. It's just a habit.

The storage drive in the shed is, admittedly, close to the house, but I've been to enough fires to see that the outbuildings tend to survive, so that's the logic of why the extra backup.

And then, there's Google and my own servers that I run for focazio.com.

And there's a stash of DVD's of the photos and some videos, which are at an undisclosed location off-site, in a physically secure location.


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#138491 - 07/02/08 10:18 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Spiritwalker]
red Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 175
The stories told to CNN and Shephard at Fox news were later determined to be mostly fabrications and rumors. However, the heavy-handed (and illegal, watch the lawsuits roll!) confiscation of all firearms was a sad, knee-jerk reaction to a perceived, but rather exaggerated threat.

OP really hit home for me. I was not able to make it back home one night after work d/t a pup trailer full of propane exploding. They evacuated over 1000 homeowners. Our home escaped evacuation but I did not escape the perimeter. That is when the importance of having a 72 hour car kit hit me. I mentally went over everything I had. Money was actually the most important after comms. It felt good to know that a forced night away from home would be, at worst, an inconvenience.

Looking back, though, penetrating the perimeter would have been pretty easy. Just park about 1/4 mile from the perimeter and walk through. They just don't have the manpower to stop foot-traffic through the non-road areas...as long as it's night.

But I let discretion be the better part of valor.

_________________________
When the SHTF, no one comes out of it smelling pretty.

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2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

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