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#136235 - 06/16/08 11:39 AM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Plutonium is an alpha emitter, which means it will only harm you if particles are inhaled, ingested or embedded in you. Alpha radiation only travels about an inch and can be stopped by paper or skin. Gamma radiation is the bad stuff, it can pass through several feet of concrete shielding and kill you after only a few minutes of exposure to high levels. While I don't know what else they might put in a bomb to make it more efficient, nothing can be very radioactive because otherwise you wouldn't have a bomb after a short period of time.

A fizzle is possible, where the bomb almost but not quite makes it to a nuclear blast. This would produce a lot of radiation and radioactive material. But a full out misfire wouldn't rain much that was very dangerous around. And it might just go ahead and bury itself which would solve to problem pretty completely.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#136263 - 06/16/08 05:02 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: AROTC]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
I second the Monolithic Dome solution. I have researched these things and visited their facility twice in Texas. When I am in a position to build I will be going this route. FEMA's highest protection category is "near-absolute" and these things have earned that rating. I encourage you to do the research on them.

Standard Disclaimer: No connections whatsoever; just sold on the idea.
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"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#136311 - 06/16/08 09:12 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: picard120]
cajun_kw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Southern California

From Web Search of the Periodic Table ....
"Plutonium-239 is one of the three fissile materials used for the production of nuclear weapons and in some nuclear reactors as a source of energy. The other fissile materials are uranium-235 and uranium-233. Plutonium-239 is virtually non-existent in nature. It is made by bombarding uranium-238 with neutrons in a nuclear reactor. Uranium-238 is present in quantity in most reactor fuel; hence plutonium-239 is continuously made in these reactors. Since plutonium-239 can itself be split by neutrons to release energy, plutonium-239 provides a portion of the energy generation in a nuclear reactor."

Fissile material left over from an exploded nuclear device creates quite the mess ...and its contamination and very small particles that are very radioactive that can cause the most damage to humans. You don't have to be able to "see it" for it to hurt you.

Any shelter designed as bomb shelter should be adequate to handle a tornado. Though all the designs I ever looked at were below ground. That said ...and as stated before...with adequate funds ...you could build an above ground structure from re-inforced concrete and steel that would weather a tornado ...but again ... it would or coudn't have windows unless they were able to be sealed with something akin to blast doors or seriously strong shutters. Which could be done ...but again ... bring your checkbook.
I've seen storm shelters incorporated into home designs that are marketed as "safe rooms" ...most are re-inforced concrete and/or serious steel that are left standing after hurricanes and tornados tore the house down around it. But most are fairly small like maybe 8 x 8 at most. They won't stand up to a bomb blast but will weather a natural disaster. Though they'd be small. Taking that concept further you could build the basement as if it were a large storm shelter ... have a large space that could survive the storm ....your "basement roof would be the house subfloor...but you'd have to rebuild your house.
To make any "normal" looking house survive it would need to be largely re-inforced concrete with enough "lipstick" on the facade to make it look "normal" ....but its gonna be hard to seal the openings (doors/windows) in a way that doesn't make it look sinister...and it will cost a lot of $$$.
But the bigger it was, the more it would cost ... so clearly something under or around 1000 sq ft, single story, simple design... would be a more cost-effective target goal than your 3000 sq ft yuppie mini-mansion.
NO design could protect you if you weren't in it though ...and sealing yourself up in your habitat every night presents more issues to content with.

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#136313 - 06/16/08 09:29 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: cajun_kw]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
There are many designs out there for underground homes and semi-bermed homes.

I just saw, in Oklahoma, where this family has taken an old steel tank (5,000 gals???), turned it on its side, cut in a doorway, and has buried it as a tornado shelter. It looked like it could hold between 10 and 20 persons comfortably. It is buried into the bluff created by the roadway being cut through a hill and they are facing the sides of the bluff with natural stone, on each side of the shelter entrance.

Yes, I've been on the road for the last five days but that is another nightmare,,,uh, I mean,,,,,another story!!!!!


Edited by wildman800 (06/16/08 09:30 PM)
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#136326 - 06/16/08 10:52 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy

How would simple folk like me know what to clean up, how to do it, and would we have the means to actually do the cleanup?

Well, cleanup needs to be done by guys who have at least geiger counters and know what to do. In a repeat of the reactor re-entry scenario there will be lots of aerial surveys (you can find hot spots from airplanes and determine what isotopes are involved) followed by vans running around to pick up debris.

For civilians the important thing is to report suspicious metallic debris, mark it with a sign (skull & bones with arrow pointing at it) and maybe organize a neighborhood watch until it's removed to make sure kids and pets don't go play with it.

If there is no government help and won't be ... you won't know what it is or how dangerous it is. I'm not sure. Here is a site with plans for a do-it-yourself radiation meter, and lots of other chatter about about nuclear strike survival things.

My comment "shouldn't be hard to clean up" meant that properly-equipped teams should be able to find the contaminated spots and remove them.

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#136358 - 06/17/08 01:14 AM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
"...shouldn't be that hard to clean up..."

How would simple folk like me know what to clean up, how to do it, and would we have the means to actually do the cleanup? This is assuming a really bad scenerio, where there was little or no government support. I know basically zip about that kinda stuff, other than it is supposed to make you glow at night.


As I understand it cleanup in that case isn't very complicated. Detect the perimeter of the contaminated area, mark and calculate the acceptable exposure limit. This will set the amount of time a person can work. Dosimeters still have to be used to confirm estimations and exposures. Then you dig a hole.

If the contamination is small and on the surface you scoop up the contaminated earth and drop it into the hole you created and cover with sufficient dirt to act as a shield.

If the area is larger or deeply contaminated you take the dirt you pulled out of the hole and pile it on top of the contaminated area. Again, forming an effective shield. the decision pivots on which method most reduces worker exposure and creation of dust which might spread contamination on the wind. Water spray, sometimes with a detergent, or foam have been used to keep the dust down.

This protects people from the radiation and dust. To keep your shield from blowing away or eroding you lay down membrane and cover with clean dirt planted with grass. Or you pour concrete. Something to slow erosion.

The membrane also keeps rainwater from leaching the radioactive dross into the groundwater.

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#136467 - 06/17/08 04:37 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Art_in_FL]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Cheyenne Mountain they ain't but I seem to recall reading about a couple of log homes that took direct hits from tornadoes and only lost their windows and roofs. Not tornado "proof" but better than having to rebuild from the foundation.

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#136495 - 06/17/08 10:18 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Spiritwalker]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: Spiritwalker
Cheyenne Mountain they ain't but I seem to recall reading about a couple of log homes that took direct hits from tornadoes and only lost their windows and roofs. Not tornado "proof" but better than having to rebuild from the foundation.


That would depend on the log home, most are not sufficiently 'unitized' mechanically and stay together largely because of the weight of the parts, and exactly how direct you mean by "direct hit". On the other hand if you were building a log home it would be possible to drill down through the stacks of logs and to install steel rods running from a poured foundation to the roof structure. These make the entire structure act as a single piece and transfer uplift loads down to the foundation.

But then again similar unitizing details are even easier to install on conventional construction.

Easier still with poured concrete or CMUs. Rebar and surface bonding work really well at holding things together.

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