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#136028 - 06/13/08 10:32 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: KG2V]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Wouldn't that depend on the model of the car? Seriously, though there is no such thing as a fuel-efficient Rolls Royce, some are better than others.

Jeanette Isabelle
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#136034 - 06/13/08 11:51 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Now this is an underground shelter that can whip any tornado...


That it would.

Long ago I read a piece on Cheyenne Mountain. Seems that the mountain was pretty much obsolete before it was completed. The USSR detonated a 100 MT device and had the lift capacity and accuracy to get several to the mountain. The mountain itself would survive, in a somewhat attenuated form, but the initial burst of radiation from any of those warheads would kill everyone inside.

Assuming anyone survived the radiation they would be buried under a hundred feet of mixed semi-vitrified radioactive slag that is pushing 1000F. Where anyone inside gets their air and has sufficient air conditioning to keep from being cooked remains to be seen.

Assuming they live long enough to dig their way out any survivors find themselves in the middle of a radioactive zone twenty miles across. And probably a nation on the other side just slightly more attractive.

Standard orders were that after the initial attack they would hike out and report to their chain of command for reassignment. Right.

As more than one person observed a lot of nuclear handmaidens had an implicit wish to play the high note in a fatal one act play. On the up side they would be going out with a bang. And be one of the first to know about any major event.

But against a tornado. Outstanding.

As one concrete man said - " I guarantee three things about the slab I pour: It will crack, it won't blow away and nobody will steal it".

Concrete is an excellent material for tornado resistance. Combined with the power of dirt you could make it the basis of a home that could resist any tornado. Or the near miss of a moderate sized nuclear weapon.

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#136036 - 06/13/08 11:55 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Art_in_FL]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
yeah, concrete has been proven oven thousands of years, literally, it has been around since Roman times, that is much older then many of the materials that we use today...
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#136045 - 06/14/08 12:52 AM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Art_in_FL]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...Standard orders were that after the initial attack they would hike out and report to their chain of command for reassignment..."

Our Uncle Sammy believes that you have to have a plan for everything...
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#136123 - 06/14/08 07:11 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
"...Standard orders were that after the initial attack they would hike out and report to their chain of command for reassignment..."

Our Uncle Sammy believes that you have to have a plan for everything...


Pretty much.

I mean, were you expecting the PTB to give it to them square:

1) Upon getting launch code expedite the launching of missiles.
2) Launch missiles at designated targets.
3) Spread legs, bend over sharply, kiss ass goodbye. A Cuban cigar, a small flask of Tennessee sipping whiskey and a tape of Handel's Messiah have been provided for your entertainment while you wait.

That would be very thoughtful. And so very unlike how the military thinks. To the end the military engages in cognitive dissonance and makes believe some of these situations are survivable.

On the other hand. A guy who operated one of the Nike Hercules bases told me a long time ago told me that one of the saving graces in any war, even a nuclear war, is that if you think the US military is screwed up you don't know jack about other nations.

One estimate was that somewhere between 2% and 7% of US warheads in the 70s were expected to fail to operate for various reasons. Talking to defectors out of the USSR, Russian union for the youngsters, some estimates were about 10 of the Russian missiles would fail to launch, 30% of their warheads launched would fail to detonate correctly. And almost half of their warheads would fail to meet targeting specifications.

Forget those hopeful fallout maps. Come full scale war nobody knows where the warheads will fall and how many will go off. Particularly seeing as that Russia has had to cut military expenditures. they claim their strategic forces are unaffected but there are reports that maintenance and upkeep are not being done.

Of course warheads not reliably going off where they are aimed is a mixed blessing. Gross inaccuracies mean your retreat in that mountain valley safely upwind of all the targets might have a 100kt warhead fall on it. Aiming for the military base 300 miles away they might still get you, which would really suck.

Also warhead errors tend to be delays. Which mean that those highly efficient air bursts that don't drop much fallout could become ground bursts that are less effective as strike weapons but much more efficient at creating huge plumes of fallout. Even a warhead that fails to detonate isn't necessarily a good thing. The warheads come in a several times the speed of sound. If they hit the ground their extremely long-lived radioactive contents splatter. Creating a permanent dead zone several times as large as a football field.

It would be my luck to build a super-duper bomb shelter and have a warhead, off track and defective, land directly on top without exploding. Fallout degrades rapidly. That stuff, not so much. It might be a very well equipped shelter but I think it is going to come up short of the years I need to wait to get out. This would also suck.

In fact a lot of aspects of nuclear war suck. Which might be why the DoD optimistically tells the missilemen to report to chain of command after a nuclear attack on their base. One way of dealing with the mega-suck is to ignore it.

But I still thing the Cuban, libation and tunes are a good idea. If you have to go. Go out with style.

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#136124 - 06/14/08 07:18 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Art_in_FL]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Anyone visiting the Tucson, AZ, area should take the time to visit the Pima Air Museum Titan II facility. Getting a close up look at one of those big boys, watching a simulated launch, brings back the old Cold War fears in a hurry...

Link
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#136164 - 06/15/08 04:18 AM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: picard120]
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
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#136171 - 06/15/08 02:00 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: Raspy]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
Having been in Cheyenne Mountain, it is a very interesting design.

But unless it's underground, I seriously doubt that you can make a tornado proof structure. F5's are pretty unbelievable, I've seen asphalt literally peeled off the road. I don't place a lot of confidence in concrete, it would have to be steel reinforced, and even then, I'd be surprised if it weren't blasted through.

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#136172 - 06/15/08 03:30 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: sodak]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Texas Tech's Wind Science and Engineering Research Center does work in this area, and it is of greater interest to them than some DHS bureaucrat: I believe test structures of theirs have had "unscheduled testing" by tornadoes in the past.

PS. As for unexploded warheads: it's the short-lived isotopes that tend to be the problem more than long-lived isotopes since there's more energy emitted per second. Pu-239 is the main problem in a warhead and it has a half-live of ~ 20,000 years. Assuming it doesn't embed itself in something that acts as a moderator it shouldn't be that hard to clean up...

A more realistic problem than an unexploded nuclear warhead in the backyard is if some idiot decides to put a nuclear reactor in low-earth-orbit again and then has an uncontrolled re-entry long after criticality, something like Cosmos 954 in 1978. Neither the Russians nor Americans do that any more but others have the capability and might be tempted to try it. Not much to do but stay clear of anything that looks like debris and wait for clean-up crews to clear the area...

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#136183 - 06/15/08 06:01 PM Re: is it possible to build tornado proof home? [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...shouldn't be that hard to clean up..."

How would simple folk like me know what to clean up, how to do it, and would we have the means to actually do the cleanup? This is assuming a really bad scenerio, where there was little or no government support. I know basically zip about that kinda stuff, other than it is supposed to make you glow at night.
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