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#134432 - 06/01/08 09:10 PM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: Rodion]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
If you had a BOB, and it really was TEOTWAKI, then hopefully, the BOB will have some things in it that will allow you to survive long enough to begin thinking about the longterm. If you don't make it past the first 72-hours, if you do not have something in which to keep water, if you have no idea about how to try and ensure you have a clean water supply, then you are probably in more trouble than the person who does. In other words, I think the simple answer to the first question is a probable no, with no way of finding out until TEOTWAKI.

Also, I think tools in your BOB that would allow you to make a transition toward developing a sustainable lifestyle would be an ideal thing to have. I think any tools you have cannot hurt. The decision is what tools, and the knowledge about which ones to choose is somewhat an exercise in forecasting the conditions you might encounter. But some of the tools you are likely to think are useful for the short term, could last you a good long time. For example, I think any knife worthy of being in the BOB is a potential longterm tool.

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#134434 - 06/01/08 09:29 PM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: Rodion]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
IMHO, based upon real-time experience in life and death emergencies in ER's, adrenaline does not help me function effectively, Training helps. Equipment helps. Being part of a team that has done this stuff before helps. Adrenaline makes my hand shake, and I miss the IV start. Adrenaline makes me respond to the obvious and apparent injuries without checking for the hidden, more serious problems. Nurses and soldiers and LEO's and fire fighters practice and equip and train and rehearse so that they will not have to rely on adrenaline to succeed, and not have to suffer for adrenaline induced errors in judgment. Adrenaline is not a solution to survival situations, it is an additional problem with which to cope. The less a life and death situation seems like a life and death situation, the more likely it will turn out to be a life situation.
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#134438 - 06/01/08 10:40 PM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...Adrenaline is not a solution to survival situations, it is an additional problem with which to cope..."

Yup. There are probably times when adrenealine will see you thru a problem, but training works better as far as I am concerned...
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#134439 - 06/01/08 10:42 PM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: Rodion]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...not organized militia... Those will do just fine.."

Please define organized militia???
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#134450 - 06/01/08 11:50 PM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: OldBaldGuy]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
If he means what I think he does, wow, will he be surprised.

*laughs*

It is all about mental planning, not your toys. I can remake a lot of things, even not as good as what I start with, and I can usually deal with the loss of the rest.
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#134452 - 06/02/08 12:00 AM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: Rodion]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2810
Loc: La-USA
Not in my opinion. IMHO, a Bob will buy you the time to adapt & overcome obstacles.

The real problem lies not in surviving the incident, But in surviving the year following the incident.

Look at: "You Will Survive Doomsday" by Bruce Beach; it's a very short, to the point article.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#134454 - 06/02/08 12:55 AM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: Rodion]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1805
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Rodion
Quote:
When you say "psychological," are you asking about the will to survive? I'm confused.


Nooo. Let's say you and a group of others are stranded on a deserted island with only what you had on your person. You each live in seclusion for a month, then meet up. While sitting around the campfire (started with your keychain firesteel) you start showing off the skills you have learned.

Why would we live in seclusion for a month and then meet up? In a survival situation there is strength in numbers.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#134459 - 06/02/08 02:22 AM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: ironraven]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...wow, will he be surprised..."

That's exactly what I was thinking...
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#134467 - 06/02/08 02:57 AM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: OldBaldGuy]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
One thing I was thinking is that although I have all of this stuff(see school E.Q. kit) I am counting on actually surviving the incident, so none of my toys will help me if I'm trapped under 40 tons of building!
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#134469 - 06/02/08 03:12 AM Re: Survivalism as an impediment to survival [Re: OldBaldGuy]
LeeG Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 100
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Look at is as a thought experiment.

Assume we have 100 people with comparable physical abilities and knowledge. We give 50 of them a BOB (same stuff in all) and the other 50 we give nothing but the clothes on their back. We then spread them across a sufficiently large area that they are alone.

While some of the unequipped people may well survive, there are huge obstacles they must overcome relative to the BOB equipped group.

1. They have to forage for their first meal.
2. They have to find a water supply.
3. They have to not become sickened by said food/water
4. They have to construct shelter (and do it without tools)
5. They have to do all this during times there is enough light

Even assuming an extremely benign environment, the difficulty in overcoming a lack of basic tools is huge. I would venture to guess that having a BOB would give the 'average' person at least an equal chance of surviving as the most fantastically trained expert who had no gear.


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