Hey all,

as some of you might know, I have been charges with making ym troops fak, I have been asking lots and lots of questions about what should go in it and such...
well here are the contents of the kit, pics will be up later!

[drumroll]


*COMBINE PAD 5X9 STERILE
*ALCOHOL PREP PADS LARGE
*TRIPLE ANTIBIOTIC OINTMENT
*WATER-JEL BURN LIQUID 4 OZ
*COLD PACK REG
*COBAN TAN 2'' X 5 YD
*ELASTIC WRAP LATEX FREE 3''
*EYE WASH SINGLE USE 20ML
*BLOOD STOPPING BANDAGE
*GAUZE ROLL NON-STERILE 2''
*BANDAGE ROLL STR 4 1/2 X 4 YRD
*GAUZE PADS 4 X 4
*STING RELIEF PAD
*MICROSHIELD
*BUTTERFLY MED VALUE
*NOSEBLEED PLUGS
*MEDICAL BAG NYLON(ORANGE)
*UTILITY SHEARS BLUE
*FORCEP SLANTED KIT SIZE
*FORCEP SPLINTER 4 1/2
*PENLIGHT DISPOSABLE RED
*SYRINGE IRRIGATION PISTON 60CC
*GLOVES NITRILE ECONO(SM)(100)
*CINDER SUDS FOAM SOAP
*BIOHAZARD BAGS
*IBUPROFEN TABS
*IMMODIUM A D CAPLETS 12
*ANTACID TAB
*TRIANGULAR BANDAGE 40''
*benedryl
*leuko silk tape
*cough drops
*sunscreen
*purell
*bandaids


as usual please comment on anything I should add! Thank you all! You all have had a big impact on what went into it!

Jace

Hey Jace,

What no Demerol???




Just kidding.... Looks good.

Especially like the eyewash idea. Needed that little bit of technology before and was damned glad to have it.

An Extractor would also be a good idea (not to be used instead of the eyewash!!) .

I don't know what the rest of the folks would think about a SAM splint. I keep one in my field FAK.

A CPR facemask with one way valve would also be a good (though bulky) investment. I've used microshields before and wasn't terrible impressed (I'd tell you what I really think about them but this a PG rated site).

I EDC a facemask in my fatboy.

A number of guys here (judging from the posts) also pack some pantyshields in their FAK. They make good trauma bandages and will probably make some of your fellow scouts look at you with some awe (he actually touched those things and he didn't burst into flames....).

Jace,

Overall I think that you've done a very thorough job with this. The following are some quick thoughts I had:

You might find that the 3.5g indivual-use Water-Gel packets are more convenient to use (and maintain sterility) than a single 4oz container.

I assume that you're planning to have more than one (20mL) eyewash? Do you also plan to have a sterile eyewash cup?

A 60cc irrigation syringe is quite large. You may wish to consider downsizing this somewhat.

I second the suggestion to add a Sawyer extractor and a CPR mask. I would also consider adding the following items:

1% Hydrocortisone (Anti-Itch Cream)
Calamine/Diphenhydramine (Poison Ivy Relief - Ivarest, etc.)
DEET Insect Repellent (although this may be stored elsewhere)
Twezers / Tick Remover (forceps are not ideal for removing splinters or ticks)
Acetaminophen and/or Aspirin
Electrolyte tablets
Petroleum jelly (chapped lips, cracked skin, etc.)
Thermometer(s) (Look into the 3M Nexcare disposables)
Super glue (works well as a temporary suture)
Moleskin/Molefoam/Blist-O-Ban (blister prevention)

Finaly, a pen/pencil and small notebook would be quite useful, as would a hands-free light source (such as a small headlight). You may also wish to include a basic or wilderness first aid guide.

The last (and often overlooked) item would be a contents list showing the initial quantities and replenish levels.

Jim

Looks pretty good! I'm hoping that this list isn't including actual quantity of items?

I'd add a smaller syringe if possible (10 or 20 cc). good for irrigating wounds (filtered water is fine in the backcountry). I read somewhere that the 60cc syringe doesn't have the ideal pressure for cleaning while preserving tissues.

Maybe a SAM splint. I know BSA first aid is all about sticks and backpack straps for a splint, but seriously, that's pretty ghetto.

Also, see if your Asst scoutmasters can make it mandatory for everyone to carry After Bite. Works great on mosquitoe bites. then you don't have to pack them in the FAK.

I think I would add a good tube of poison oak gell.

I work at a summer camp, and assist with the medical prep and
treatment (WFR).

I would definitely add a "Treatment Log". Record every treatment, no
matter how minor, in writing. No one wants to go to court, and this
may keep you out of it. I would place the log (Could be a simple note
book or binder) on the very top, so as to remind the user (you?) that
if you open the kit you should make a entry.

Other suggestions are good, obviously. Wilderness Medical Associates
did their test for wound irrigation with a 60cc syringe with an
18gauge tip. Or so I remember my instructor saying.

Ditch the microsheild in favor of a real CPR mask IMHO.

Add more band aids. That is what I always run out of at camp.

Perhaps some more tools for splinter extraction? Safety Pins?

I strongly second the idea of a contents list, especially if this is
to be used on more than one trip. Best suggestion on FAKs ever, IMO.

Yes, I did plan on making an excel document with all of the contents, the quantity, how much used and for what reason, and a pen/pencil
I will definatly get poison oak/ivy/sumac stuff.
The "forceps" I get are actually tweezers that are made for splinter removal.
I will get a SAM splint and a real CPR mask, I just wanted to put everything in on one order, and the sam splints and the cpr masks were quite expensive, so will look for them in real life (as opposed to online)
Instead of electrolyte tablets I was planning on putting in some powdered Gatorade, or if I can find them not in bulk, electrolyte tablets. Would Gatorade work?
I will probably add some pj, and some Hydrocortisone cream.
Band aids, will definatly be plentiful and in many shapes.

please remember that this is just the troop kit, and every scout is "supposed" to carry their own kit...I know that my pfak has afterbite, and sam splint fingersplints

sorry, no demerol, I had to look it up and it doesn't look to fun! And I don't think the BSA would like us handing out narcotics to little 12 year olds who got hit by the car!!

Thank you all for the suggestions! And please feel free to ask questions about why I put what!

Agree on the irrigation syringe, 60cc is a little big - 12 cc syringes are available from NOLS. Although you'll want to squirt at least a liter to irrigate any wound in the field, its best to use a smaller syringe that you can hold and direct more accurately at the wound and anything contaminating it.

What kind of roll tape do you have? At least 2 rolls here, good sturdy stuff that won't peel off without effort. Every Scout should also carry tape in their personal FAK, but I didn't notice any in this Troop FAK.

I vote for 3-4 more triangular bandages. Its not that you're going to end up with 4 Scouts with broken arms at one outing, its that they are very handy for packaging a fracture. Tie the tri bandages around the broken limb surrounding the splint material and padding, avoiding where the break occurs. It tends to take at least 3-4. Again NOLS sells some cheap muslin cravats that are pretty ideal for this. Cheap, lightweight, don't take up much space.

fwiw We found the SAM splint really only worked for arm fractures (surrounding the elbow) and maybe for a lower leg. For most other splints an inflatable sleeping pad cushioned with sweaters and t-shirts did the best. Splinting with walking sticks and backpack straps and poles will work, but you need to cushion every bit of that carefully to make it comfortable for your victim. Inflatable pads, triangular bandages, sweaters - much easier.

It looks like all your nitrile gloves are size Small - will adults use this FAK? Pack some Med or Large as well.

Double or triple up on the moleskin, gauge how much the Troop uses after the first hike or two. Same goes with all sorts of band aids - you might consider focussing on 1-2 only. fwiw I love knuckle bandaids, the cloth ones, they really cover a wound nice, and I find between that and a couple finger tip bandaids I can get by nicely.

Cinder Suds soap - not familiar with it, if its equivalent to Green Soap pads (also from NOLS - I'm beginning to sound like I work for them, sorry) then that should work fine.

Butterfly bandages - I'll go out on a limb here and suggest you're better off with wound closure strips and a wound treating system, something like this (from NOLS of course) - http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16259&cat=266&page=2. There are at least a few major advantages to the wound treatment system - its more compact than any other bandaging system for open cuts, buy one and hold it up next to what you expect to treat a wound with conventionally and you'll see what I mean; at $4 its pretty inexpensive (not cheap, but not expensive); its meant to be applied and stay on the wound for days, or until healed. If you treat conventionally you need to pull the bandage, retreat, and reapply the bandage or new bandage at least once a day. On day 2 of a 5 day hike that's kind of inconvenient and will suck the bottom out of your FAK supplies pretty quick. You can still pull up the wound treatment bandage but don't have to unless you notice some infection to treat, which you can see through the window on the bandage itself. I had a chance to put the wound closure strips on a gash on my wrist which might have required a stitch or two, it healed very nicely and now I only have a dainty scar.

Ditto on the paper and pencil and FAK book (compact) to go with this. You'll need to make notes on your victim, and have that ready to communicate to rescuers. Good FAKs come with 2-3 pages filled out with vital info to collect. Get a smaller pencil from a local golf course, they don't break easily and last a while. The FAK book is your entertainment, reading for rainy days in the tent and just before lights out - you never know when you'll be expected to treat what happens on page 32.

Headlamp in lieu of the penlight - you'd end up holding a penlight in your mouth. It doesn't inspire confidence in your victim. If you don't have one already Doug Ritter makes a headlamp for $15.95 that should be an EDC.

Make sure your Scout Leaders poll the troop to find out who has any allergies, especially to bee venom, then make sure they carry an epipen or two when participating in *any* outdoor Troop event (especially bbqs). Then make sure everyone (or at least you) know where they carry it. You won't have alot of time to dick around in someone's pack looking for it if they are stung. You will want to know how to inject it, instructions are on the epipen. After one injection, get some benadryl (anti-histamine) down them as quickly as you can, and prepare to give them the second epipen injection. I favor liquid or melting tape type benadryl on the off chance they are having breathing problems and have trouble chewing and swallowing - but frankly I've only had to administer once, so I can't say its positively any better (it is a little more expensive in liquid or gelcap form).

Good Troop FAK climberslacker! Be prepared to adjust and improvise and even throw away something against the advice of us old farts. Newer better first aid items come along all the time.

Thanks, the gloves were medium size(I hope)
the itemised list, does not have the quantity of things going in the kit, as I have yet to work that out, but I ordered 4 triangular bandages at like 50 cents each

I love that wound closure kit, will preobably place an order with NOLS now (my dad will hate you, don't worry), The penlight is more for checking for pupil response then for lighting up the scene, everyone in my troop has headlamps, but I have one I will add the the kit.

Yes, I will poll the troop and see how many people are allergic to bees, I am very familiar with the use of the epi-pen as I made sure I looked it up in my emt book that I have, and use as a refrence guide, and a text book.

Try to talk your Dad into placing a larger order - if you only order the one wound closure kit it will end up a $10 kit after shipping and handling. Go wild, order up an irrigation syringe, a couple green soap pads, some second skin burn stuff, won't add up to much but will spread the shipping and handling around to more things. The $15 First Aid restock pack is a good value too. I don't think NOLS get rich off their first aid stuff, so I don't mind shilling for them from time to time.

I figured as much on the pen light - I had one too, the one time I needed it I pulled it out and the battery was dead. You can check pupil reactions with any light including your standard headlamp (no need to pack one in the FAK if you keep on EDC in your pocket).

Don't let a victim with a bee sting turn on you - we treated a Scout and two of the adults thought one epipen was enough, didn't realize he had to have benadryl, fast, and thought I was being cruel administering the second epipen. Its epipen just to clear the airway enough to administer antihistamine, then (hopefully) just one more epipen and continued benadryl per dosage instructions. Then evacuate, its really difficult to anticipate losing the airway to the histamine reaction but its always a possibility.

Are there any special storage requirements other than keep out of direct sunlight, and keep unfrozen and under 80 degrees for the epi-pen?

I don't know, I'm not allergic and don't carry one - sounds about right for epinephrene though. Everything you should ever want to know is available at http://www.epipen.com.

thanks for the link! Did you know that when you inject it into your thigh, only about 10% of the epinephrine is used? I thought it was interesting anyway!

heres my "to get" list

benedryl
leuko silk tape
cough drops
sunscreen
purell
band aids
moleskin
green soap sponges
electrolyte salts
wound closure kit
irrigation syringe
sam splint

as usual feel free to comment! I don't take things badly at all! If you have some qualms with this kit then I would prefer you tell them to me now, then after I post and say that some scout is in the hospital, or worse, the morgue...

"...cpr masks were quite expensive..."

If you go to your local ambulance company/fire station/law enforcement agency, in uniform would help, and explain what you are doing, you MIGHT have some supplies donated. Maybe. Before I retired I was the supply guy for that kind of thing, and I would have slipped you some stuff under the table...

Yeah - you'd be surprized how people will go out of their way to help. I've found the uniformed guys are typically more than willing to help out any "real" volunteer group - Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Heck, even SOME Ham radio operators. Hint, when I spent 12 hours with my truck parked behind the Red Cross ERV, and even took over when the ERV went to refuel, the police noticed I was serious - and they usually look down on us. Before I left, a case of flares was dropped in the bed of my truck to "replace what you used"

Your kit is better than anything I've put together.

The one thing I would add is 2nd Skin from Spenco. Nothing works better, imo, to treat a blister. I first used these playing football decades ago. A square, some athletic tape and I was back on the field without pain. I have some in all of my kits. IMO, moleskin is from the dark ages when compared to 2nd Skin. See: http://www.spenco.com/product/704-moist-burn-pads-1nbsp12nbspxnbsp2

Following with great interest.

Are there recommended first aid classes and compact books to guide use of such a kit?

Thanks.

Keep the sunscreen and purell outside the FAK - everyone needs sunscreen, and everyone who cooks or cleans up after a meal should use the purell. I don't eat well unless I see the cook wash his hands on hikes...

On the Second Skin in lieu of moleskin suggestion below, that's the voice of experience for ya - I haven't had a serious blister myself since before you were born climberslacker, and any Scout along on a hike shouldn't have more than one, since before the next trip they get taped up (with duct tape) over their hot spots. Second Skin does sound nice.

Leuko silk tape? I'm not sure how silk tape is priced, but the latex leuko tape is pretty expensive, you could buy alot of kit for the price of one roll. REI sells a roll of good tape for a few dollars, Sports Authority sells a bulk pack of 5 x 25 yds ankle wrapping tape for maybe $10 (though it can be a little tough to tear off). Ankles tape up just as well with either, and cheaper.

Compact Guides:

http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16485&cat=256&page=1. Backcountry Aid and Extended Care by Buck Tilton is good, seems to follow the NOLS line on most stuff.

http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_EB%20F100_A_name_E_A+Comprehensive+Guide+to+Wilderness+%26+Travel+Medicine+Book A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness and Travel Medicine by Eric Weiss MD is also good. Its more adventurous than the Tilton guide, will even talk you through an emergency tracheotomy if that's the only option you're left with in the wilderness.

In terms of training I say any that you can get - Red Cross is usually in your town and operates like clockwork, CPR/AED is standard and should be kept up, and their standard first aid class is okay. NOLS and the Wilderness Medicine Institute run the gamut of training, everything from 2 day intros to 2 week classes for more advanced first responders. http://www.nols.edu/wmi/courses/. I was impressed with how comprehensive the WMI course was, with a good balance of classroom and hands on reaction to simulations (about 40% classroom, 60% hands on). WMI typically comes to or near your town a few times a year, look at their schedule and contact them for the next course in your neck of the woods. The instruction is tailored for when you are away from emergency responders, such as 2 hours or more up a trail and hours from evac of your victim, which makes wilderness medicine a pretty good fit for post-disasters and other emergency situations. Its made me more comfortable with lots of medical situations we're likely to encounter after an earthquake for example.

@lono

the leuko silk tape is just because I hear that it is latex free, and I don't want to kill some scout with an immediate latex allergy by taping up their wound...If you have any other ideas of latex free tapes that compare to athletic tape, please, feel free to help! (:

Maybe its just because I actually break in my boots before hiking, but I have never had to use moleskin or anything, but I know that many scouts don't do that.

Yes, the purell and sunscreen are definatly going to be out side of the kit.

[quote(dweste}
Following with great interest.

Are there recommended first aid classes and compact books to guide use of such a kit?

Thanks.[/quote]


Dweste, I have a few wilderness medicine books that I have read

I got this book a few years back (when it was waaay cheaper)

Emergency care and transportation of the sick and injured

This book I like because it goes in great detail about laws and such regarding wilderness medicine

Wilderness first responder

And this is also a great book...I haven't read it in a while, but it is much smaller but it has a "quik refrence" thing in the front for when you need help in an emergeny.

NOLS Wilderness Medicine

have fun, these are all great books

dweste,

Any first-aid training through the Red Cross or similar organizations are great. Check your local Vo-Tech also. Ask the guys at the fire station if they are allowed to have "outsiders" in their training sessions. You may be surprised what you can get. Ask the outdoors sports stores in the area if they are offering anything or if they would consider it. Hope this helps.

$.02

climberslacker,

I know you may have already thought of this. Make sure to laminate your contents list. Also, make a list of "packs" to be used based on injury or condition that is on the back of the contents list. For example; Burns - Pack A and D. "A" would be bandages and "D" would be the ointments/topicals pack. The EMTs/First Responders in the Forum would probably have much better insight to this than me. Further, familiarize everyone with how the pack is organized and used.

2 cents; with no tax.

Yeah! tax free!! So Im going to have a contents list and a list/log of what is used on whom, by whom and for what...Yes EMTs please do chime in!! (:

The REI tape I mentioned is Johnson & Johnson Zonas, standard athletic tape - "100% cotton with rubber adhesive." REI/J&J doesn't say latex free anywhere I can see it, but its $3.50 a roll...

Respectfully disagree regarding the syringe size. The bigger syringe encourages the use of more irrigating fluid, which is mighty desirable-orthopedic surgeons can quickly run through 10 liters of irrigating fluid on a medium size wound, and nurses customarily use a liter or two on smaller wounds. Fluid pressure is not a function of the size of the syringe, it is dependent upon how hard you push down the piston and how big the opening your pushing it through. If you are irrigating road rash to remove the gravel, you need lots of pressure-that is when you put the 18 gauge iv catheter on the irrigating syringe-there was a fad a while back of using a water-pic-lots of pressure, lots of volume. 60cc syringe was always my first choice, cuz its the biggest available.

If you have room for the 60 cc syringe, keep it-it will save lots of time in drawing up fluid. You gotta be careful about the pressure with any syringe.

There are numerous ways to organize you supplies:

You can crate “kits” based upon injury type, such as a burn kit, laceration/cut/scrape kit, immobilization kit, major trauma kit etc. You can still have a master kit with a variety of supplies to supplement and restock the “kits”.

Advantages: This system can save time in an emergency, in that all the necessary supplies are specific for that type of situation. Others can look inside the master pack and grab the appropriate “kit”. If you have a first aid station and an injury occurs at a campsite, if you know what has happened you can grab the appropriate “kit” take it to the scene and still have a functional first aid station.

Disadvantages: Requires a fair amount preplanning and organization. You will end up with duplicate items in different “kits’ as well as the additional cost.

Master kit, will have a broad spectrum of supplies organized by supply type, i.e. bandages, dressings, wound care, medicines, etc.

Advantages: Easy to organize, little redundancy, set up correctly can be easy to use. Many commercial kits are set up like this, so tracking expatriation dates and restocking is a little easier.

Disadvantages: If you have an emergency, may become flustered looking for needed supplies and may be harder for others to find supplies. Must bring entire kit, if treating at scene and the First Aid Station out of commission.

Master kit with smaller “on-scene kits”: Same as above, with the advantage of keeping your First Aid Station in-service.

Other options:

Master kit with each individual/patrol having a smaller personal/patrol kit that is carried at all times.

I will probably just go with the master kit idea, for now at least, your a paramedic, so what set up do you have?

Again, thank you all for the help with finalizing the kit! Please feel free to ask as many questions as you want!

Ditto the BSA donations. I know for my Eagle project (and most of my friends), most supplies got donated. All you have to do is ask! I'd suggest municipal stations instead of private ambulance companies though.

Gatorade packets are fine.

Don't forget to keep this to a mangeable size!

yeah! of course im gonna try to keep it to a reasonable size, it will all hopefully fit in this bag !!!

I would skip all the meds. Giving meds to someone else can be problematic, including Benadryl which is usually contraindicated in asthma patients. Cough drops, that contain iodine, can be problematic for those who are allergic (and they might not know it yet). Aspirin is usually contraindicated for those under 19 years old because of the potential for Reyes Syndrome. I would certainly rule out the Epinephrine that was mentioned. If someone needs it, they will have it, and young scouts would not know when it was warranted in the case of those with an undiagnosed allergy. IIRC correctly from your oral airway thread, we are talking about "non-certified" 13 year old scouts. They should not be dispensing medications. Even ones that are common and generally considered safe.

I agree with haertig on administering meds to Scouts in general. Just to clarify, the epipens aren't for stocking the FAK, those are held by those who have allergies that require them. My advice was to know who they are, and where they keep their epipens, because you may have to administer the epipen for them if they cannot. By "you" I mean the adult leader of the troop, not a 13 year old Scout. Otherwise, I suggest that climberslacker's job here is to stock the Troop FAK, and if someone goes into anaphalactic shock, to stay calm, and assist the adult leaders however he can. That may include pointing him to Little Jimmy's epipen. Parents of Scouts do sign appropriate waivers allowing for emergency treatment - by adult leaders in any case.

yes, I realize that asprin is not good for young people, that is why it is ibuprofin. I didn't know that cough drops could harm you! thanks for the heads up!

Yes, But I would like to point out if little jimmy is in anaphalactic shock, and i give the adult leader the epi-pen and he asks"so uhh, how do I do this" I would probably take it over, as I have read some on how to do it. But that would be only if I could not find another leader and all of the ones I could find were clueless...

It is the iodine in the cough drops. Iodine allergy is not uncommon as allergies go - comparing iodine allergy to "other allergies". Not all cough drops contain iodine however.

I have “kits” both ways.

Whenever I provide medical care for Girl Scouts, I have a master kit with a fair amount of supplies and then have several smaller specialized kits I use if the situation warrants.

If I am providing care as part of a larger neighborhood function/encampment and I am stationed at the First Aid Station, my experience has been the two most common forms of treatment are for cuts/scraps and the second is for headaches. What will do is have a cut and scraps kit consisting of antiseptic cleaning pads, saline, 2X2/4X4s and band-aids, this generally takes care of 90% of the cases, add a pair of splinter forceps and disposable 18-19ga. hypodermic needles (great for removing splinters) and that generally will take care of another 8-9%. Some burn gel; will take care of the remaining 1-2% of incidents. If the case is more serious, I have my main kit with a fair amount of trauma supplies.

I even make up little zip-lock bags with some antiseptic pads, a couple 2X2s and band-aids, which I will give to the “patient” or leader to take care of the problem at their campsite.

Pete

Can you recommend any that don't have iodine? Also, is that one reason you don't see many people carrying iodine towelettes around?

And that's your decision. One I personally lean towards agreeing with. You sound mature and knowledgeable/willing_to_learn, but I assume you're still a minor so I hesitate a bit on that "agree with" statement. Technically, injecting epi is a more invasive thing to do without training than inserting an oral airway.

I had one more idea, after reading Pete's post and the post about the epi-pen.

When I was in my late teens, I worked as a lifeguard and was the lifeguard who got to treat the most injuries. The most common minor injury I dealt with were bee stings. The best remedy I had for them was a paste made from baking soda and ammonia. It usually got the kids to stop crying rather quickly. Cheap too.

This of course was not for anyone showing signs of anaphalactic shock, but handling that would have been totally out of my league.

I rarely ever use cough drops, and I'm not allergic to iodine, so I don't know any specific non-iodine brands. Just go to the store and look at the ingredients on the label. Iodine will be listed if it's present.

Oh, I don't know. You don't see many people carrying pitchforks around either, but that's not because they're allergic to them. I suppose the real reason is that most people don't have much use for iodine towelettes in the first place.

Yes, i am a jr. guard, and Guards aren't aloud to even do anything like take out a splinter, as that is too invasive, however there are some guards who are EMTs and they are a aloud to do those kinds of things.

Thanks for the tip Dan_Mcl!!

Last summer both my son and daughter were lifeguards. On pool opening day they were both on duty at the same pool. Hordes of little kids came running in and managed to find the broken glass that some morons had managed to hide in the grass. So when the bloody foot patrol came running up, my kids went and got the pools official first aid kit. It contained two bandaids and a roll of gauze. Wonderful. My kids temporarily closed the pool while one of them ran next door to the store and bought supplies. After that us parents went and bought each kid a nicely stocked kit and they took these with them for all subsequent lifeguard shifts. We reported the ridiculousness of the existing first aid kits to the pool management, who did some restocking after that.

I'm not really surprised at all. The City, my long-ago employer, gave us little more than gauze. I took the ammonia I used from the maintenance stores.

Oh, I was talking ocean lifeguard, but I guess for a lot of you there is no ocean

Where I worked there was no ocean, only pools and Long Island Sound. However, I will never be able to get too much ocean. Been on all of them, except the Arctic. My agenda for July includes teaching my 4-year old niece how to body surf. I learned at that age.

Hey all! in a few days, once I get everything together, I will post pix! Yay!

Maybe someday, if "the big one" hits California. I think someone even wrote a song about that (Rusty Weir? - a country western singer from the 70's). "On the coast of Colorado, when California's gone."

Holy crap kid, yeah, you should fit everything in there. Please tell me this is a "base camp" type of FAK, not a "hey, let's go up to Mammoth for a week long Hi Adventure trek" kit? Otherwise, you're going to be using half the stuff on yourself. Not to mention, this bag will NOT be easy to carry if you've got on a backpack as well.

And if it IS a backcountry kit, may I strongly suggest a modular approach, where each Scout gets a packet of stuff from the kit? This is based on carrying lots of bags as an EMT, and about 8 years in Scouting myself.

Don't forget to list your expiration dates on your contents list.

At the top of your list you could just put the date/item that's going to expire first. That's what we do with our crash carts in the hospital. A lot easier to keep up with.

I'm planning on doing that very thing with our household FAK / Tackle Box; a piece of tape on the outside top with the date/item first to expire so I know what to hit first.

[quote=samhain
Don't forget to list your expiration dates on your contents list.

At the top of your list you could just put the date/item that's going to expire first. That's what we do with our crash carts in the hospital. A lot easier to keep up with.

I'm planning on doing that very thing with our household FAK / Tackle Box; a piece of tape on the outside top with the date/item first to expire so I know what to hit first.
[/quote]

Yes - a good thing to do - when I rebuilt my 2 kits recently - I just made an excel spreadsheet with all the expiration dates - put the list in the kit - but also - I have a google calender account - I put a reminder in there to "ping me" when stuff was going to go bad

OOOH! yes, thanks for the tip!

MDinana: yes it is a basecamp kit...What do you take me for? But when we go backpacking I may make a separate, troop backpacking fak, that will be modulare, the only problem is, what if the kid with the trauma part, falls down a rock and looses his pack, but gets some gnarly wounds? PFAK maybe?

If you go modular, I would suggest having certain key pieces duplicated across at least 2 scouts.

How many scouts would you spread this kit amongst or would you have the leaders carry the bulk of it?

Always good for each scout to have a decent PFAK. These would take care of the "normal" type of injuries with a master FAK to treat the outlying issues.

I would suggest that, 'specially if you go modular and have lots of scouts carrying a part of your FAK, that you develop some type of easily opened yet secure system to seal each module, so that you can easily tell if it has been opened. Zip ties probably won't work, too time consuming to open if you need access NOW. Possibly tape zipper tabs together with "evidence tape," which can be purchased from a law enforcement source like Galls (galls.com, search for evidence tape). That way you will know if some nosey person has been digging through a module, possibly removing some vital piece of equipment.

ps: I don't own Galls, but have purchased from them many times with great service...

Just some perspective, but we have never split up our Troop FAK, its intact in the Scoutmaster's pack even on 50 milers. All told the Troop FAK weighs about 2-2.5 lbs including the bag. I believe its currently in a recycled AMK med kit bag that folds out and provides the modular approach to organizing contents favored by so many. (You can buy the empty AMK kit bags from campmor, kinda pricey - I have also found a close out of the AMK Professional series for $99 (reg $249) that included alot of good kit, a few expiring meds, plus a hefty bag). But that's for organization not so much for efficiency, except for stopping bleeding and treating shock and hypothermia, one thing you have plenty of in the wilderness is time, no one should be rushing around with a partial kit and rushing the treatment. I've never felt having my FAK in a zip lock hindered care along the trail.

fwiw my personal FAK for 50 milers closely resembles the Troop FAK, we're effectively doubled up, but I just can't resist carrying what I think I may need. My daily carry (on hikes and outings) FAK fits in a gallon zip log bag though, and while I haven't weighed it probably is on the order of 1 lb.

Ohhh, cool!

I didn't think of that!

I can plug the expiration dates in my Outlook calender.

Thanx!

I've never needed them; I have experimented with both and have found butterfly bandages does its job better at holding on to the skin.

Jeanette Isabelle

Pics will be forth coming in another post, probably next friday-ish

Cruised an American Red Cross site, these caught my eye:

Syrup of Ipecac (use to induce vomiting if advised by the Poison Control Center)

Activated charcoal (use if advised by the Poison Control Center)

just googled ipecac, and you don't want to know what came up! But I will look into getting some, if they have it at the drug store.

Thanks!

Based on the Wikipedia article alone, I don't think I'd mess with it:



Jim

ooh, wow, I didn't read that article! Nevermind!

Notice the operative words there were "if advised by the Poison Control Center." So really, neither are worth carrying, and since both are liquids, it's kind of heavy.

Charcoal is great, but I don't expect many scouts to OD on something out in the woods. And if you do, well, you can MAKE charcoal. I've also heard that really, really, really burnt bread can be used as a substitute, but that could just be an urban legend.

Well, maybe because all you need is something that will obsorb the poison (bread) and then make you puke it back up (really, really, really burnt bread) Does anyone know how long you have to burn said bread before the patient is helpless and the bread won't do anything?

Check with your local Poison Control Center, find out the straight story, and then let us all know.

I'll pass it on to the American Red Cross if they are suggesting something incorrect.

Thanks.

I don't have all that strong a stomach, but I can not imagine burnt bread, even really really burnt, making me toss my cookies. Absorb maybe, but not vomit...

maybe have the bread absorb it, then gag yourself??

from the poison control center's website

and this



is from Here .

This info seems to be better then other info!

also looks like the burnt toast theory is out also from the above site!