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#132289 - 05/08/08 01:44 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: rly45acp]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Scoped bolt action is the way to go with a high power center fire rifle. Add a Harris bipod and you have a great rifle.

The 3006 gives you about 200 fps more velocity with the same bullet then the 308, yea itís a longer action, but you get more power for it.

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#132290 - 05/08/08 02:00 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: rly45acp]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
A gun pundit once wrote a fine article ( and I cannot find my copy) arguing a specific range of calibers in specific wieghts moving at specific velocities were required to confidently drop Bambi, Bart or that other obnoxious varmint.The all very good arguments also have a few caveats. True, the '06 can be loaded for everything from squib loads to varmints to deer and finaly bear ( Hemingway carried a Griffin and Howe .30-06 as his 'big gun' in Africa FOR CAPE BUFFALO.)But a RIFLING TWIST and throating that will stabilise a 220 grain bear load may prove mediocre with a 55 grain spitzer. And some people simply have different thresholds of recoil control, nothing unmanly involved. I find the .375 H&H a slow shove, while Weatherby cartridges seem an exercise in masochism. The 220 grain 06 was in fact standard 'bear medicine' in Alaska for many years until magnumitis overwhelmed common sense. I was part of a party with the grim task of killing a rather nasty Kodiak after he mauled a tourist. And it was my shot to the vertebrae that ended his life. My rifle that day happened to be a 7 Mauser loaded with a 174 grain roundnose, a combination considered a smaller equal to the 220 'o6. A post mortem found the poor animal carried a virtual display board of bullets in .30 .338 .35 and .375 calibers totalling well over a dozen poorly placed bullets. In the end, it comes down as much to the shooter as the weapon system of rifle and cartridge. Some people just 'connect' with a combination.In fact, the phrase 'Beware the one rifle shooter' is so true. I have a friend, WW2 Marine. He owns a pristine early Arisaka with intact Crysanthemum, bayonet and Norma ammunition. He routinely puts 5 rounds into the bull against guys with all manner of dedicated match rifles with scopes.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (05/08/08 02:04 AM)

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#132292 - 05/08/08 02:07 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: nursemike]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Originally Posted By: nursemike
The army sere instructors have studied this stuff to death, and have chosen the .22 rimfire semi-auto pistol as the ideal sere weapon.
http://www.sererescuesog.addr.com/USRSOG-Firearm.html

Whenever the unarmed folks ask which firearm to acquire, many of the responses seem to assume that the new gun owner will immediately acquire the skills and tolerances necessary to cope with 12 gauge pumps, high-capacity 9mm semi-autos, and military caliber long arms. Bad assumption. This sort of introduction to firearms is analogous to taking a new skier to the top of a black diamond trail and shoving him off, expecting skills to develop on the way down. Good way to discourage a new skier. It is easy to short-shuck a pump gun, easy to make an unloaded -gun error with a semi auto, easy to become gunshy with 30 caliber turnbolts. Folks new to firearms should start with wysiwyg weapons-.22 is a great place to start-revolvers - you can see the cartridges; single shot .22 rifles-there is no cartridge in battery unless you pick one up and put it in the chamber. Single and double barrel shotguns are immune to the mechanical failures of the magazine-fed weapons. If the new gun owner is bitten by the bug, he or she can easily move up to the larger bore/larger capacity weaopons as they develop the skills. I love the discussions, too-but we should try to be aware of the audience, and allow them the same, sensible introduction to firearms that miost of us had as kids-



You are right, at my friends gun shop (Iím in there all the time and help out) people new to guns ask what gun you think they should buy first. We almost always say a 22 lr, but you can see it in their face that they think you are wrong and should have said a 9-mm or 357 Mag or a 40 S&W. They donít want a 22, they want ďPowerĒ Most times they donít listen to your recommendation and go with the high-power handgun.

I have seen that here on this BBS, people want a powerful gun, not a little 22 lr. Itís hard to fight this and get them to understand. I donít even try at the gun shop any more. You make a recommendation for the 22, but if they want the big guns, so be it.

Everyone should own (and shoot) a 22 lr rifle and pistol or revolver. Iíve been into guns for 35-years, and the 22 is still my favorite thing to shoot. The 17 Remington and 32 Mag & 22-250 are close behind it. But the 22 is just fun to shoot.
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#132293 - 05/08/08 02:23 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: BobS]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Hi BobS

Quote:
But the 22 is just fun to shoot


Most definitely, but then so is a BREN gun. wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o4UY6aRgCs&feature=related


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#132294 - 05/08/08 02:24 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: BobS]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
First firearm I ever fired was my dad's first also, a Winchester Model 02, single shot .22 about 26" long overall. First handgun I ever owned was a S&W Mod 17 (K-22) 6", also in .22. I still have them both, and the K-22 would be the last firearm I ever get rid of. I have a jillion rounds thru it, if I can see it, I can hit it (within the range of a .22LR)...
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#132295 - 05/08/08 02:31 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: rly45acp]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...For snubby 38's, try standard pressure wadcutters..."

On one hand I want to kindasorta agree with you, but on the other I remember an officer who got shot right on the point of the chin at point blank range by an irate wife (his). Broke his jaw, knocked out a couple of teeth, but he didn't even lose consciousness...
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#132297 - 05/08/08 02:37 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: nursemike]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2810
Loc: La-USA
That makes sense because that's how most of us started.....BB guns to pellet rifles to .22cal rifles and 410ga shotguns, etc.

Somewhere along the way, most us were introduced to short guns, usually when we could strap one on without the barrel dragging in the dirt as we walked.

Some of my best memories are of skipping school with our pellet rifles and fishing poles. We'd fish in the morning, hunt, kill, clean, and cook Robins for lunch, and then finish the afternoon off at the swimming hole. Yes, those were the good ole days!!!!
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#132298 - 05/08/08 02:39 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: Taurus]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I am not a real 9mm fan, but sure wouldn't want to get shot with one. In my opinion, the worst thing about the 9 is full ball ammo, that stuff tends to drill a narrow little hole thru the target (assuming human), and lots of stuff behind the target...
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#132299 - 05/08/08 02:43 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2810
Loc: La-USA
The "Fluid Shock Principle" is clearly demonstrated by Ball Ammo. I liked the 9mm for boarding ships but I didn't like using it in other scenarios (land) because of it's lack of "knock down" capability.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#132302 - 05/08/08 03:04 AM Re: Caliber Choices. [Re: wildman800]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
.22 LR (Ruger 10/22 is my favorite) for survival hunting... while a GAMO pellet semi-auto can take down squirrel and rabbit easily, cheaper and quieter too, and is legal to shoot in town. For protection I would go with a 12ga. I am looking at the benelli M4 myself for a hopefully soon purchase. With that said I also have a 30-06 and .270 I prefer the 30-06 as I can control it more wink

-Todd
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Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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