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#129895 - 04/11/08 04:27 AM Re: Gas Prices [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
The CHP recently responded to an early morning 'collision' on the Ronald Reagan Freeway. Officers on scene found a large truck and SUV on fire with both drivers DOA. There were no witnesses, in fact the freeway was virtually free of traffic at the early hour. My local CHiP friend can only speculate it was a case of road rage between two very large vehicles going in excess of 90 MPh when they collided.Ironically, one vehicle sported a yellow ribbon 'Support our troops.' Now, it seems to me if you want to reduce your gas bill, dependence on foriegn, and often hostile oil producers any patriotic american with half a brain would try soomething VERY RADICAL, like slow down.Every vehicle, regardless of design has to essentially push air out of the way to move. You increase your speed and you increase air resistance and need more power exponentially over 65 MPH at a rapidly diminished fuel economy.

#129907 - 04/11/08 11:31 AM Re: Gas Prices [Re: Susan]
AROTC Offline

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Actually, the high gas prices in the seventies did spark a wave of R&D. Several high efficiency experimental designs were developed because of the price of gas. My dad was able a 4x4 Ford truck in 1974 for about 60% of the sticker price because car manufacturers and lots couldn't shift large, inefficient vehicles (He was going to Alaska and thought he needed that type of vehicle, his next car was a SAAB sedan. We all learn as we grow). However, there wasn't really a gas shortage in the 1970's, there was a monopoly on oil production. OPEC tightened down the valves and gas prices sky rocketed. Right after that though, in the eighties the price of gas dropped to extremely low prices. Partly as a result of increased production from OPEC and partly a result of increased exploration. It wasn't too long after that that prices dropped almost to ten dollars a barrel. The American public (which has been through this sort of boom bust cycle in the oil industry several times) blew off the warnings of potential problems and went back to buying big cars and houses tens of miles from where they work. On another variable in the equation, food prices are artificially low because of the way US farm policy and support shifted in the seventies. The cost of food is so far hidden that the average consumer doesn't realize how expensive their food actually is in terms of subsidies and collateral damage. The price corn is sold at is typically about a dollar less then the cost of production, with the difference being made up in the form of government subsidies. The result is that people have become used to exceptional levels of energy and food plenty and normalcy when it returns is going to burn.
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

#129913 - 04/11/08 01:08 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
OldBaldGuy Offline

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Our new diesel hog truck has a gizmo that tells what your fuel mileage is at any given moment, apparently based on the current fuel flow. The difference between 55 mph and 75 mph (and before you jump on me, that is the max on interstates in AZ) is amazing. Takes a little longer to get from here to there, but at current diesel prices we feel that it is worth it. Besides, less stress, more time to enjoy the desert views, etc etc etc...

#129919 - 04/11/08 02:11 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: OldBaldGuy]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Well, I guess I ain't following you down the road then. I can only imagine what it'd be like driving from Yuma to Phoenix behind a truck full of hogs, in that heat. The smell would be so thick you could probably taste it.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#129921 - 04/11/08 02:18 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Arney Offline

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
The difference between 55 mph and 75 mph...is amazing.

I think we need questions about driving speed and fuel consumption on the written test to get a driver's license so we make sure that people really understand how speed affects their fuel consumption.

Just did some quick calculations. Speeding up from 55 to 75 mph is a 35% increase in speed. But it's an 85% increase in air resistance! A lot of people routinely drive 80 mph on the freeway. Compared to 55 mph, that's 110% more air resistance--more than double the resistance that your engine has to push through the air.

Maybe we should outlaw windshields so everyone can feel for themselves how much wind resistance they're trying to overcome when they stomp on the gas pedal.

#129926 - 04/11/08 02:52 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: Arney]

It's easy to forget how much of a difference speed can make when you're on the highway being overtaken by everybody doing 30 over the limit. Everytime I drive through a national park and the speeds are 70km/h to 90km/h max while the highway around can be 100km/h to 110km/h I'm reminded how good my Jeep can be on gas when you set the cruise at 70km/h and go for a few hours.

Using cruise helps a ton as well. Many people are pedal pumpers and maintain speed by continuously speeding up and coasting...very hard on gas.

#129934 - 04/11/08 03:33 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: ]
Taurus Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 423
Loc: Ontario
At the projected price(by this summer) it will cost me 210 bucks per fill up. At once a week this is 840 bucks a month(not including the wifes Nitro)

I hate to pay that much, But I will be cold and dead before I trade in my Ram. The thought of me driving anything besides a truck is blasphemy. I will simply have to cut corners somewhere else. Thats life

Maybe I will stop buying so many guns.........

#129935 - 04/11/08 03:34 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: ]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
As speeds increase, so does wind resistance. Rolling resistance is, IIRC, pretty constant for all speeds. However, we can also get better mileage in hgiher gears. So, generally, the best mileage should be when you are in the tallest gear your vehicle has, fifth gear when you have a five speed transmission for example, and are travelling at about the slowest speed at which the engine seems to be comfortable, not lugging it.

The other thing that sves mileage when driving, not using the pedal that purposefully slows the car down. brakes are bad for gas mileage, although use of them may be good for your health and the body of your car.

#129946 - 04/11/08 05:05 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: Taurus]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Well, what about a decent Harley or BMW bike once in a while?
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#129950 - 04/11/08 06:01 PM Re: Gas Prices [Re: ]
MartinFocazio Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Oh, please, please don't infect this forum with this spam.

First of all, the gas you buy in your car comes from oil sold in the the commodities market. There's not a hose labeled "Exxon Oil" that you can trace back to the wellhead, it's all dumped into the same massive tank farms. Drilling & Extrication is not refining is not distribution is not delivery is not retail.

The point is that if you stop buying at the retail channel from ExxonMobile, well then Exxon sells crude to Citgo and Shell.

There's ample speculation in fuel markets, that's a factor too - as long as there's someone to contract West Texas sweet at $112/bbl and there's someone willing to enter into that contract, you'll see gas prices where they are. Spreads and such in that market are all just people playing financial games to rake in the bucks.

The declining value of the dollar is a factor. You want to see expensive gas? If they drop the dollar and price oil in Euros, and then you'll see some SERIOUS price bumps as there is currency arbitrage in effect.

Finally, it's basic economics as the lowest level; if you don't stop buying at $3.50, then they price it at $3.75. If you don't stop buying at $3.75, they price it at $4.00. The market will bear what the market will bear, and until we see double-digit reductions in consumption, there's absolutely no reason for the retail price to drop. The vendor is largely irrelevant, the price of gas is the price of gas, and the market pays what it will.

If you've ever spent much time outside the USA, we've had cheap gas for decades. Gas in the UK is about $8.00 a gallon. Really. Whining about how "expensive" it is isn't going to drop prices.

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