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#127006 - 03/11/08 02:55 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Russ]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Russ
Odds are bugging in is the most likely option, regardless of whether you're in a flood zone or volcano zone.

If flood conditions force you out take the supplies you have for bugging in, pack the kids into your car and leave.


Precisely.

You should preapre to both bug in and bug out, but you begin to plan for bugging in. As you begin to plan for bugging in, most of the things you prepare should be things that can be used both in or out if needed. Once you have bugging in planned, you set aside portions or your stores and gears prepared and accessible for immediate flight.

My preparations are not for a family, onyl a couple. We each have BOBs ready to go, the BOBs ar epart of bugging in, but there are also other stores for bugging in.

Some gear can be useful for both. For example, the shelter in the BOBs may be useful indoors. If you are indoors without heat, setting up a tent-like shelter can allow you to remain warmer just be catching some of your body heat and keeping it in a smaller area. I've awoken in a tent while it snowed, and the tent was warm with our heat.


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#127012 - 03/11/08 04:21 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: NightHiker]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4709
Loc: SOCAL
In my case I have a small pick-up. I store a portion of my bug-in supplies in the truck. Since I'm more catastrophic earthquake oriented, I like to have stuff with me all the time. If I'm home they're bug-in supplies; if I'm on the road or at work it's a 96 hour kit.

The most important element of the bug-out scenario is a place to bug-out to. Anybody can pack a car and leave home; where are you going to go?

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#127030 - 03/11/08 07:40 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Russ]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
All good ideas.

Most of my strategy comes from camping, for several camping trips, I kept a pad of paper on me, and when I needed something, I wrote it down. You could do something similar over a weekend.

When I packed for trips with my kids when they were young, I mainly used to segregate things into "input" and "output" if you know what I mean....

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#127068 - 03/12/08 01:23 AM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: OutdoorDad]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2806
Loc: La-USA
It sounds like you need to go back to the basics and plot your paths from there.

"Bugging In" will always be the preferable, easiest method to handle most disasters whether they are natural or of a manmade origin.

"Bugging Out" will always be an option, as it should be, but it will always be the least practical, hardest, and last resort option for most people.

"The four needs" are: 1) Shelter; 2) Water; 3) Heat/Fire; 4) Food

Make your plans according to these basic rules/planning options and many of the problems that you foresee will become simplified as each step is accomplished, the next step or requirement becomes an easier problem to be solved.

IRT "Bugging In", I plan on handling a nuclear incident and thus I am prepared for anything lesser as well (such as Hurricanes, Industrial accidents, etc). (Plan A)

IRT "Bugging Out", (Plan B) I plan to take with me a certain amount of gear and supplies, leaving the majority for my return after the "All Clear" is sounded. (Plan C) means that I am leaving with no intention of returning, this means more people are involved since there is safety in numbers and most, if not all of our gear and supplies are taken with us.

Plan B means covering a short distance and setting up a temporary residence whereas Plan C covers a long distance and establishing a permanent residence upon arrival.

I have special needs (within the family) that have had to be addressed so I am confident that you can create working plans to fit your situation. Kick back, have some beers while you have some realistic discussions with trusted friends.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#127076 - 03/12/08 02:22 AM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: wildman800]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Unfortunately, most of the accumulated info on bugging in and out with kids was lost when ETS changed whatever they changed.

Do you live in the flood plain? That's simple to fix: GET OUT. I live near Centralia/Chehalis. We were mostly marooned, but we didn't flood. My worst problem was when the wind blew up the chicken's plastic flap and wet down a good two quarts of layer pellets. And no, I didn't mention that to the people who lost everything. I bought with disaster in mind.

As was said above, your main two issues are bugging in and bugging out, in that order. Bugging out on foot with kids is really not an issue, esp with them the age you have. If things deteriorate to that point, you are in deep trouble.

I would make a list of what you need for each age group now. The chances are excellent that you will need some form of what you've got now. Then think about each facet under no-power, no-heat, no-help conditions.

Start with what is likely to be most important. Not being a mother, my first thoughts are diapers, food, diapers, warmth, diapers, medications, and diapers.

How many diapers do you use per week? Do you use the disposable kind? What do you intend to do when (not if) you run out? I would keep some cloth diapers and a bunch of liners on hand. PNW... rainwater collection to wash them.

Heat is important to small bodies. Be able to shut down the rest of the house and live in one or two rooms to conserve heat. Open house plan? You'd better make plans.

Baby food can be created with adult food and a knife and fork: mince and mash.

Sick baby under disaster conditions? Pedialyte and baby meds. Talk to your pediatrician -- you must be on a first-name basis by now! Tell him/her what your intentions are. Ask if there is such a thing as a breathable hood for babies/children to protect them from ash fall.

Check out the Red Cross sites: http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/0,1082,0_581_,00.html

Check out your local government disaster sites: Here's one for King County: http://www.metrokc.gov/prepare/

Emergency shelters tend to provide space (not much), cots, food and water. That's it. You're mostly on your own for the rest.

If I read the tanker correctly last week, the railroad was shipping at least one tanker of sodium perchlorate to the NORTH. WTF??? Combine that with a derailment. Or a leaking tank (train, truck, you choose) of chlorine? You'll have to be ready to run immediately. What do you take? Which direction should you go? Got a NOAA radio? Got gas in the car/truck?

Always keep in mind that disasters of any kind tend to strike at the worst possible time: at night, when it's snowing or raining, when there isn't much gas in the car, etc.

Also, type up a Babysitter Handbook. Keep it pinned to the wall near the phone in PLAIN SIGHT, and sit down and go over it with each and every babysitter. I am reminded of a 12-year-old babysitter who smelled smoke but couldn't find the source. She called 911 immediately, then she gathered up the three small children and ran with them across the street to a neighbor where she saw a light on. A short time later, the house was engulfed in fire. Could your babysitters do that well?

Blast's Handbook was mentioned above. It's WONDERFUL!

And check out those smoke alarms designed with children mind. Instead of the whoop-whoop that sleeping children can't hear (a scientific fact), they have Mom's voice recorded: "Get up! Get up! Go out the front door!" over and over.

You can do this! Look, I have my four CHICKENS trained to run into a cat carrier when I call them and toss some grain inside. If I can train a chicken, you can do this!

Sue (still working on the cats...)

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#127080 - 03/12/08 02:47 AM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Susan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: southern Cal
Your comments are very true. Our local radio carried a feature about the St Francis Dam collapse, eighty years ago today, which killed around 1000 people - the exact number is unknown. They interviewed a survivor, now in her nineties. The flood began about 1:30 AM. Her parents and brother went out the front door; she exited the back door. She survived, the others did not. Her parents bodies were never found.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#127098 - 03/12/08 12:18 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4709
Loc: SOCAL
I'd never heard of the St. Francis Dam until this thread -- wow. Five days after being filled to capacity for the first time it catastrophically failed. You'd really want a bug-out plan for that type event. But bugging out presumes that you get the word to leave. Best to not live there.

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#127102 - 03/12/08 12:58 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Russ]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Had another thought.

Bugging out for a family with three small children, esp. for any distance, really requires a vehicle. It also requires you being able to get through traffic, fix anything that might go wrong with the vehicle, etc. Taking to foot or some other mode of transport while enroute is going to be difficult.

All this means that you must be prepared to bug out early. We all should be, but families with children really need to be out early.

This involves preparing the minds of your wife and you to think this way and not much else.

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#127105 - 03/12/08 01:19 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Dan_McI]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4709
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, from the time you get the notice to leave until you're backing out the driveway should be about 10 minutes.

Your wife gets the kids ready while you put the already packed rubbermaid containers in the car. Put the stuff you need from the refrigerator into the prepositioned cooler and put that in the car too. Done.

The car already has at least a half tank because you never let it get below that mark. Back down the driveway and leave -- you didn't forget anything, put that thought out of your head.

I'm fortunate in that the only thing I'd bug-out for is a wildfire. They normally get started well east of us and there's plenty of notice. I repack the truck way early so that if the fire gets into our canyon (it hasn't yet) I can make that 10 minute limit. Otherwise, I could get into the truck right now and leave, but I'd leave a lot of good stuff behind (not necessary for survival stuff, just stuff I have room for in the truck).

What will you be driving if you need to bug-out?

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#127115 - 03/12/08 03:27 PM Re: A family friendly shtf plan needed [Re: Russ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2822
one of the things I've started doing is going to parks and such on the weekends. These are mini bug out tests for me. We get up and see that its nice out so we get dressed and go. I then writ down what we needed and didn't have when while we are out. I keep gear in my truck at all times so we run from it and thats when it gets tested.

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