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#125928 - 03/02/08 12:22 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: MoBOB]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
You explain what you can, but it’s up to the other person to decide what safeguards they want in their life. If they choose not to act or do what is needed at any given time, it’s their problem, not yours. No one can be made to do anything they don’t want to do.

If you are talking about your wife you have an interesting debate on your hands. Plan for the both of you and if it hits the fan, hopefully she will come into the light.





Sometimes the gene- pool needs a little chlorine.



_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#125930 - 03/02/08 12:34 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
raydarkhorse Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...
I explain what I'm going to do, I'll even explain why given that there is time and I can do it safely and I will help you. If after seeing the situation and hearing the explanation you choose to ignore things for whatever reason oh well! I have a theory that goes along with this thread
I prepare to survive because I want to survive, if you don’t prepare to survive then you don’t want to survive.
I don’t necessarily mean packing supplies and learning things, I mean if you can’t see what’s going on and follow instructions or make decisions because you may get dirty or because it’s unseemly then you have chosen not to prepare and want to die. I am a big believer in free will and will abide by your choice.
_________________________
Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

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#125940 - 03/02/08 01:17 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations [Re: Blitz]
picard120 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
Originally Posted By: Blitz
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Hi picard120,

Quote:
How do you explain to some people or women to do drastic things in survival situation to survive?


From THE REASONABLE WOMAN
A Guide to Intellectual Survival
by Wendy McElroy


Quote:
The Rules of Intellectual Etiquette
Everyone has the right to be uninterested.

When you are trapped in an unpleasant or boring conversation, you are well within your rights to state 'I don't care to talk about this (or to you) further'. Make the statement without hostility, as a matter of fact, then simply walk away.

No one has an unconditional claim on your time or on your attention. And the assumption that you should care about every issue and event in the world at all times is a ridiculous one. It leads to the intellectual equivalent of what the media has termed 'compassion fatigue' -- the emotional state of being overwhelmed and short circuited by the demand that you care about every injustice committed on the planet. Don't allow yourself to be intellectually overwhelmed by the unrealistic demand that you find everything and everyone interesting.

Everyone has the right not to understand.

Most of us spend a lot of time trying to avoid uttering the sentence, 'I don't understand what you are saying'. Too often, people see this statement as an admission of ignorance or inadequacy on their own part rather than considering the likelihood that the other person is either not explaining things well or holds a position that makes no sense.

Even if the intellectual ball is being dropped on your side of the discussion, what of it? No one understands everything, and it is folly to pretend you do. There is a vast difference between being confused about a line of argument and being stupid. The fear of appearing stupid frequently underlies our reluctance to admit that we simply don't understand what is being said.

Don't apologize. Just ask whoever is speaking to repeat or to rephrase what's been said. Ask them to clarify what they mean. Most people are more than happy to expound at length in front of an attentive audience.

Everyone has the right to be uninformed.

This point of intellectual etiquette is closely related to, but distinct from, the preceding one. Rather than feeling unable to understand what is being said -- either because the terminology is technical or the arguments are tangled -- you are confronted with an issue you know nothing about.

Again, what of it? No one can know everything. In fact, in a world of information-explosion, there is certain to be vast areas of human knowledge about which you are absolutely ignorant. There will always be books you have not read, and events you have not heard about. The worst thing you can do is to become embarrassed and fake knowledge you don't possess. Instead, exercise the intellectual right to say 'I am not familiar with that. Why don't you explain it to me?'

Everyone has the right to make a mistake.

This is far more than a right. It is an inevitability. You will commit errors and frequently. If this upsets you, then curse human nature. As a human being, you are a fallible creature without the godlike automatic knowledge of what is true and false, right and wrong. Yet many people will argue themselves (and everyone else) into the ground or into absurd intellectual corners rather than admit to the other person, 'you're right. I'm obviously mistaken about that one point.'

There is no shame in admitting 'I made a mistake'. Indeed, there is great strength in being willing to acknowledge your errors and to learn from them. This one trait alone, if developed as a habit, will give you an amazing advantage over most of the people you deal with intellectually.

Everyone has the right to change their mind.

Changing your mind or your stated position on an issue is not a sign of intellectual indecision or weakness. Changing your mind is part of the learning process by which you discover errors and correct them. Yet, like the person who will be reduced to absurdity before admitting a mistake, many of us will never admit to adopting a new position. The more publicly the former position has been stated, the more psychological resistance there is to retracting it.

Yet if someone convinces you on an issue, it is no more than a mark of intellectual honesty and courtesy to say 'You've persuaded me over to your point of view.' After all, what is the alternative? Holding onto an untenable position just because that is what you believed yesterday? This would be childish behavior, like holding your breath until you get your own way. Everyone has the right to say without shame, 'Obviously I am wrong on that point', and not to feel diminished by this act of intellectual honesty.

Everyone has the right to disagree.

Whenever you hear a statement or argument with which you disagree, you have the right to say so. Often we are in situations where our opinion would be unpopular if stated. Perhaps a group of male co-workers are complaining about some unpleasant characteristic women are supposed to embody. Perhaps a family gathering has turned into a discussion of abortion, and you hold the only dissenting opinion.

Your alternatives are wider than either stewing in silence or getting involved in an intellectual brawl. Simply, but firmly state, 'I disagree'. You don't need to justify yourself. You needn't become either hostile or apologetic. Simply state 'I disagree' and walk away. Or stay and argue. The option is yours.

At this point, many people will ask themselves 'why bother? Why cause trouble?' In some cases -- such as the family gathering -- you may reasonably decide that speaking out is not worth the price you might pay for doing so. But showing discretion is different than allowing silence in the face of offensive opinions to become an habit. Such silence is destructive to the most important aspect of your intellectual life: your own self- esteem.

Breaking the silence and saying 'I disagree' is important. If it weren't, most people would not feel such resistance to making this statement.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Everyone has the right to so a weighty a thing as an opinion, and to express it. You don't need a diploma, permission from your spouse, a dispensation from the church...simply by being a human being, you have a right to reach your own conclusions and publicly state them.

It is true: the more you know about a situation, through reading or direct experience, the more likely your opinions are to be correct. But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't reach a conclusion right now based on what you know about the situation. In fact, that is all anyone ever does: form opinions based on their current level of knowledge. After all, as noted above, you also have the right to change your mind if more or better information arises.



It looks like you could be snookered. There are no easy rules for this one. Getting involved in a argument with someone or a group, could just waste enough time to have an impact on your own chances of survival. Oh and if you are abandoning ship for rubber fabric life rafts ask all the women to remove their high heels. wink



What this tells me is that it is a no win situation. Is that a joke or do some people really think like that?



some people do think like that.

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#125948 - 03/02/08 02:00 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Depends on the situation. If you have time, give a very brief but accurate description of the situation and your plan (who know if you are right?). Do not yell, swear, belittle, just be calm, cool, and collected. If one or a dozen want to go their own way, let 'em...
_________________________
OBG

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#125960 - 03/02/08 03:05 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: Blitz]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Blitz, shaving her head will have more dangerous results than bathing an unhappy cat, and the damage could be even more intense than Blast had to deal with. He survived.

When I read the first post of this thread, the first person who jumped into my mind was my crazy sister in Idaho, who always wants a full explanation, no matter what the situation. For the people like her (she's not unique, unfortunately), I have the following advice, short and sweet:

"RUN, STUPID!"
Sue

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#125965 - 03/02/08 03:20 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations [Re: Susan]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Originally Posted By: Susan
Blitz, shaving her head will have more dangerous results than bathing an unhappy cat, and the damage could be even more intense than Blast had to deal with. He survived.

When I read the first post of this thread, the first person who jumped into my mind was my crazy sister in Idaho, who always wants a full explanation, no matter what the situation. For the people like her (she's not unique, unfortunately), I have the following advice, short and sweet:

"RUN, STUPID!"
Sue


Bathing a cat?

That’s easy, squirt some shampoo into a toilet, get the cat and very quickly toss it into the toilet and close the lid and hold it down. Give the cat a min to jump around (the wash cycle) and then flush the toilet. Let it refill and flush again (the rinse cycle.) Rinse twice to remove all shampoo. Stand way back and let go of the lid, all done.



PS It would be a good to keep your arms away from the edge of the toilet seat during this process….
_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#125987 - 03/02/08 10:14 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations [Re: BobS]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
What makes you think it would be women who couldn't handle the situation? In the closing days of World War 2, with the Russians getting closer, and everyone obviously heading for a hard time. Berlin women referred to the men as 'the weakly sex' who sat around wallowing in self-pity while the women scavenged for food.
I've heard it said men give up easier in survival situatons too. Anyone know if this is true?
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#125988 - 03/02/08 10:39 AM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: picard120
How do you explain to some people or women to do drastic things in survival situation to survive?

some women would complain bitterly that it is not a proper lady behavior to it since it might ruin their appearance, dress or hair.


My experience is that most women are quicker on the uptake than men. Certain misogynistic views to the contrary. The ladies take great care over their presentation and appearance and naturally are not pleased when it gets ruined.

It's Mr Macho, I'm so s.... hot tough, I'm the dominant alpha male around here who is going to be the problem. Primarily because he's going to stand there bad mouthing and belittling anyone who has a clue.
Categorise him as an Immediate Threat and act accordingly.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#126001 - 03/02/08 05:40 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Categorise him as an Immediate Threat and act accordingly."

Is that permission??? grin grin grin

Actually, I've never noticed that stupidity is determined by sex.

Sue

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#126009 - 03/02/08 06:20 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: Susan]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Susan
"Categorise him as an Immediate Threat and act accordingly."

Is that permission??? grin grin grin

Actually, I've never noticed that stupidity is determined by sex.

Sue


Far be it from me to refuse a request from a lady. You may indeed. With extreme prejudice.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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