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#125778 - 02/29/08 02:19 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: benjammin]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
If a cop is confiscating your knife and letting you go, let him have it, then consider getting some help to sue the city from a knife rights group.

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#125781 - 02/29/08 02:46 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: Dan_McI]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2196
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
If a cop is confiscating your knife and letting you go, let him have it, then consider getting some help to sue the city from a knife rights group.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Spouting off Constitutional Law to a cop will pretty much earn you a glazed over look. But you can bet I'd be in court raising a stink over it. And demanding some sort of ID that he took it.

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#125790 - 02/29/08 04:54 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: MDinana]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I can well understand your convictions on the matter. I too feel that such treatment from LE is unfair and in violation of my rights to peacably enjoy my life while securing my own welfare without encroaching on others.

I long ago gave up demanding anything from a cop. I've come to understand that taking such a confrontational tone with them doesn't have the effect I want, nor does it do anything to resolve my issue. If he has a badge and a name, I will make a quiet note of both and should I really feel the need to pursue any issue after the fact, I will use that information to assert my claim to the proper channels at the right time. If it is something I really feel I can not afford to do without, such as an heirloom (in which case I am already likely mad at myself for taking such a risk with something of such value) then I will try to reconcile with the department and the officer under more hospitable conditions where discussion is more germaine. Most likely, I will simply drop the issue and not repeat the mistake again.

You can, if you so desire, fight the good fight, just for the principle of the whole thing. I don't have that kind of time or money, so if it's something I can readily replace for a whole lot less time and effort, I will choose discretion and leave the other part of valour for another more worthy fight.

Should you pursue a more confrontational position, even at a later time and under more diplomatic conditions, be advised that cops can have a long memory about things that make them unhappy. They also like to point out to other cops those who seem to make trouble for them. At some point, you may end up asking yourself if upsetting this guy was really worth the trouble you now find yourself in, however unwarranted such trouble may be. I personally don't like to be such a mark for those whom my welfare may depend on. Sicking the dogs on his department isn't going to win him or his buddies over as friends either. When the advocacy groups leave after the court case is resolved and you are left with your pocketknife and a sense of vindication, what do you suppose the cop's going to think the next time he sees you?

I'm not saying you should just roll over and take it. I merely suggest you think about how these sort of things can go in the long term. If you feel it is imperative to do the right thing, then go with your convictions, just be prepared for an outcome you may not have previously anticipated. Learn from my experiences if you can; they came at a high enough price.

Chances are, unless the cop really is crooked, following up later in a respectable manner may get you your knife back and preserve or promote a better relationship with a guy we are paying to get in harm's way anyways.

Just a thought. There is always another time when "after prying it from my cold dead fingers" will be the correct response.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#125810 - 02/29/08 07:59 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: KG2V]
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
From what I understand of it, if there's not a "release button" it's not a switchblade because it's not automatic. An automatic stores energy and instantly opens the knife after that energy is released. An assisted opener is just that, it uses leverage/gearing to make the opening easier and faster, but the user still has to apply force throughout the open. If your assisted opener is spring loaded or otherwise opens with an instant release, you may be treading on thin ice.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#125813 - 02/29/08 08:20 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: benjammin]
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
At the very least, I would ask the officer in a calm and professional manner "why" it's being confiscated, if for nothing else than future reference. You could even ask where it's posted so you know all of the rules.

If you are taking it into a prohibited area, ask if you can ship it to yourself or leave and drop it back in your car, etc. If it's a $20 knife, then yeah... maybe it's not worth the hassle. At the very least, ask what precinct you can go to to pick it up after his shift is over or where you can get it as it is YOUR property. If they have no such facility in place, I guess you start writing letters - after the fact. Of course, if you are willing to fight and stand up and put up with all the crap, you could fight this tooth and nail all through the courts. Just pick your battles well. :-)

At my local airport they give you the option of shipping back an item to yourself for $5 (the price has probably gone up) and I took advantage of it when I once forgot my LMWave was in my laptop bag. Totally worth it for such an item.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#125817 - 02/29/08 08:46 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: massacre]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: massacre
From what I understand of it, if there's not a "release button" it's not a switchblade because it's not automatic. An automatic stores energy and instantly opens the knife after that energy is released. An assisted opener is just that, it uses leverage/gearing to make the opening easier and faster, but the user still has to apply force throughout the open. If your assisted opener is spring loaded or otherwise opens with an instant release, you may be treading on thin ice.


That's exactly what's happening here. The law is specific in saying that it can't be an automatic knife and defines one by indicating that it has a release button. With assisted openers, the effect is similar but there's no button...very grey. Local police don't seem to think so.

The best solution I've found so far is to just not put yourself in a situation where a LEO is going to ask to see in your pockets smile

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#125821 - 02/29/08 10:42 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: ]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2167
Loc: Colorado
I never really understood the desire for an assisted opener. I played with one once in a store. One of the Kershaws (a Chive?) Anyway, that thing went off with such a flourish that it startled/scared me. I said I wouldn't want one in my pocket where it could accidentally get pressed by a keyring and go off. The salesman said it had a safety lock on it. Which pretty much defeats the purpose of the high speed assist, if you have to first take off the safety. I've never had any circumstance where I couldn't manually flip open a Spyderco (or any other folder with a thumb stud/hole) fast enough.

I'm all for gun and knife rights, but honestly, I have to agree that these assisted opening things are only a small step away from a switchblade. They're probably handier than a switchblade - just as fast, but better made and more durable. I don't necessarily agree that switchblades need to be banned, but since they are, it's not that far-fetched for some people to consider assisted openers the same as switchblades.

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#125825 - 02/29/08 11:19 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: haertig]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hey,

I have a Kershaw Leek "Speed-safe" knife and I like it, but I usually open it with the conventional thumb-stub in public, just to keep the shock factor down. It does really open with a quick and loud "snap" so it draws attention. I recently purchased the Leatherman TTi and have been carrying the Kershaw less. The kershaw also has a shiny silver pocket clip that tends to stand-out against my dark pants and draws unwanted attention. Kershaw Leek: http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=3

I have had problems with the Kershaw opening when I did not want it to. It has never opened in my pocket but I have dropped it and had it spring open. I did not like the extra action of removing the rear blade lock and sometimes it would slide on by itself, so I tightened it down in the off position.

When I first got the Leek folder I forgot to take it out of my left front pants pocket once and I ran it through the wash. The washing machine was no problem but the knife opened in the dryer and poked holes in a load of clothes; my DW was REALLY not impressed with me or my new fancy knife!

Mike

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#125826 - 02/29/08 11:31 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: SwampDonkey]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I have the full sized Kershaw Cyclone AND I have stubby thumbs...there's no way it would ever open one handed without the assist. I also have a Gerber EZ-Out (my former pocket knife). I'm not sure how they get off calling that a one handed opening knife but the Kershaw was a Godsend when I discovered it.

If the safety on the Leek you mention is the same as mine Mike, it's not a safety, it's a switch that allows you to turn the assist off...basically just disengages the torsion spring.

Also, you need to have the blade pretty far open before it 'assists' and the spring holds the blade closed when it's closed past the assist point. I've been carrying mine nearly every day since October and it's never felt anything but safe. The lugs aren't sharp and don't catch on stuff...same with the index trigger (my preferred method).

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#125834 - 03/01/08 12:26 AM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: ]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi ya Hacksaw,

My Kershaw Leek has a small sliding type button on the rear that blocks the tip of the blade from moving from the closed position; it is like a rifle safety button that locks the trigger and bolt. The Speedsafe system does help keep the blade in the closed position but a slight touch on the rear post and the blade ficks open quickly.

My past EDC knife was also a Gerber E-Z-Out, partly serrated blade (could we be brothers seperated at birth?), I must have larger hands because I can open it using the thumb-hole but I am really thinking of ordering a Ritter RSK Mk1 for EDC for the increased quality. My Birthday is coming soon, and I have been good lately, I think I deserve it; now I just have to convince the DW.

Mike


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