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#125389 - 02/27/08 12:16 AM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: JRJ]
Russ Offline

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5329
The only break-open firearms here are non-serious guns for clay games -- Skeet, Trap, et al. For serious guns I would prefer to have a magazine to reload the gun quickly. Some folks like the simplicity of the singles though, your call.
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

#125432 - 02/27/08 01:39 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: Russ]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
IMHO, were my current arsenal not so well stocked, I would gladly spend the small amount of cash for the Rossi. I would most likely get either the 223 or the 7.62 x 39 because those rounds are in mass circulation in civilian and military use. Here's my philosophy:

From a survival perspective, it would pay to have at least one firearm that can handle high power rifle ammunition you would be likely to find if the bubble ever went up and we were reduced to an anarchist or fend for yourself type society. Even a single shot version isn't a bad choice, as with one well placed round, you can re-equip yourself with better, yet still be able to issue that same firearm to someone else you are willing to help out (this was a big deal in WW2 for the french resistance when we dropped heaps of little 45 acp sheet metal pistols for them to do exactly that with). Even if you otherwise would use the firearm seldomly, for the price it seems well worth the investment. Also, such a firearm can be a very useful tool in properly educating new shooters with. Either of the recommended rounds are much more managable than standard high powered rifle rounds, yet still well capable for the sort of training a new shooter needs. The gun will likely be lighter and smaller than it's repeating counterparts, and therefore easier to handle for younger marksman, while still being practical enough for them to take to the field (7.62 x 39 being roughly equivalent to a 30-30 with the right bullet).

With a suitable telescopic sight mounted atop the firearm (your basic Tasco 4 x retailing for around $50 or so), it if quite functional as both hunting firearm based on the cartridge selection and for more serious survival issues.

I've used an NEF in 223 for varmint hunting, with a similarly equipped scope, and had a good measure of success when I did my part. You are not likely to get a following shot very often, but I never needed one. The NEF is a similar break action single shot, and I would compare the quality of the Rossi to be only marginally less than the NEF is, at worst. More likely they are on a par. There are an awful lot of single shot Thompsons and Rugers out there in use today, and whether it is a falling block, rolling block, break action, or muzzleloader, they do seem to get the job done about as often as any repeater does. If you think a break action takes too long to reload, try stuffing the muzzle sometime. I can spend most of a good day at the range shooting 30 rounds out of my 50 cal at 100 and 200 yards. It is a most satisfying exercise in marsksmanship and control.

308 does make a more suitable hunting round, but unless you intend to make this your primary hunting firearm, I would stick with a caliber that is more likely to be enocuntered while in scrounge mode. While not legal in most places, a 223 is quite a capable firearm for harvesting deer sized game, as a number of my "tribal" friends have attested to.

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#125440 - 02/27/08 02:15 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Your statement that "the consensus is wrong" is a bit presumptuous. I would say it is a question of context as to what recommendation is more appropriate for a given situation. I've experienced situations where having a shotgun to bear is far more desirable than any rifle. Likewise, some shotguns are capable of shooting ballistic projectiles far more accurately than many would-be shooters are capable of, certainly accurate to havest big game at nominal range. I would compare the effective result that shooting at a bevy of quail (or similar flock of birds most of us would be likely to encounter) perched in a tree with a 22 might accomplish compared to what can be done with a shotgun using an improved cylinder or cylinder bore choke at sufficient range would do. Likewise, hunting deer or even elk in what we call "Dog Hair" fir groves would be much more productive were we allowed to use shotguns with buckshot instead of centerfire rifles.

Having used the shotgun to harvest everything from rabbits and squirrels to bullfrogs to turkeys and geese and even deer, I have come to the firm conclusion that a shotgun is a far more effecitve tool in most cases for putting meat in the pot than any other firearm I have. Combine that with its inimitable self defense capabilities, and I can think of nothing that is more suitable as a multi purpose firearm. The only reasons I would consider having a 22 lr as well are simple economics and practicing marksmanship, and maybe detection avoidance with the right ammo. Your statement that shotguns have a very limited effective range is, in my experience, narrow-minded, ethics and sportsmanship notwithstanding. It is a versatile firearm with a far greater effective range than any 22 lr and certainly capable of far more than any centerfire rifle cartridge out there. That it is not specialized for any one sort of hunting/shooting situation should not be viewed so much as a compromise or debtriment, but that it is more suited as a multi-purpose firearm, capable of doing pretty much all but the most extreme tasks with the right ammunition comobination. It is the jack of all trades that is more likely to put meat on the table or repel an attack in more situations than any other commercially available configuration currently available to the majority of us.

If marksmanship and opportunity were the only criteria by which to measure the success rate of the use of a given firarm configuration, then perhaps, in that limited context, your suggestion may bear some validity. In most practical scenarios, I would say such is not the case.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#125450 - 02/27/08 04:08 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: benjammin]
MoBOB Offline

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
ben... To add to your point about the 12 gauge. In the "Cartridges of the World, 6th ed" I believe Frank Barnes ( I could be wrong on the name) stated that if he could have only one gun to take with him anywhere in the world it would be the 12 gauge. That is good enough for me.
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

#125470 - 02/27/08 07:20 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: MoBOB]
cajun_kw Offline

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Southern California
Several companies make this style weapon ...some with the ability to own multiple barrels for ONE action. Which in my book ...makes this kind of thing a "nice to have" in the arsenal. Don't know if Rossi offers interchangeable barrels. If so, I'd start with one and add others...given the attractive pricing.
I also think "spitting distance" is under-estimating the usefulness of the shotgun. I think out to a 100yds though is about as far as I'd want to go. A shotguns' shortcoming is really in that the ammo is bulkier and heavier than most rifles. Certainly you can carry more 7.62x39 or .223 ammo than 12 ga or 20 ga ammo for same weight and size. Of course ...if carrying a lot of ammo isn't a concern ...
But $129 for something that goes "bang" is tough to pass up.
I wouldn't ...personally...chose to have multiple single shot weapons ... but one with several barrels in different calibers I could see as useful.
There's no perfect weapon ...just degrees of compromise.

#125474 - 02/27/08 07:46 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: ]

I love how the posts in these threads try to blur the lines between practical hunting tool, survival firearm, and weapon.

We've gone from casual to assault rifles in less than 20 posts hehehe.

BTW: Rossi does make interchangable barrel guns and they're supposedly quite good. So far it's the only gun maker I can find with a rifle that will to .22LR, rimfire, and shells in one package. They call it the Trifecta but I can only find it in youth sizes (ie: small calibers/gauges).

#125478 - 02/27/08 08:06 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: cajun_kw]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
They've been making stubby loads for 12 gauge for a few years that I know of. These are 12 gauge shells that are about an inch long. They are great for closer in work and still pack enough wallup to be handy for homestyle self defense. I'd reckon a handful of those aren't too much more inconvenient than an equivalent in 7.62 x 39, except for maybe packaging. There too, it wouldn't be too awful to have a speedloader tube with 15 of those stubbys in it to jack into the magazine of my pump gun, assuming they don't jam up the shell feeder when cycling.

Also referred to as 12 gauge kurtz ammo.

With decent sights on a good shotgun with the proper ammo, 150 yards is fairly doable, 200 yards would be pushing it, but then I seldom take shots beyond that range for anything other than target practice. 90% of all the critters I ever killed were taken inside of 50 yards anyways, even with my big 338 win mag and my 7mm mag. 100 yards is a pretty realistic limit for ballistic projectiles out of a shotgun in any case.

If it works, it works. If it don't, more probably wasn't going to do much better.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#125479 - 02/27/08 08:06 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: ]
JerryFountain Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Rossi is now owned by Tarus and I have heard that QC is improving rapidly. Their older break action shotguns were very workable, if not pretty. Like others have said, it could be fun and it might add a caliber you don't have. Do you need it? Probably not. I would probably go for a Thompson Center which will do rimfire as well as centerfire, but that is just me.



#125485 - 02/27/08 08:30 PM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: JerryFountain]

I wonder if Thompson/Center rifles are restricted or prohibited in Canada...does anybody know? You can turn a long gun into a pistol in about 3 minutes flat. If not, I think I'd like one.

#125524 - 02/28/08 02:37 AM Re: To buy or not- this rifle [Re: ]
Art_in_FL Offline

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
I would watch out for combination, often 'drilling', interchangeable barrel and other specialty guns.

IMHO unless weigh and bulk are huge and critical issues your almost always better off with two or more separate guns.

Reliability can be an issue. To the extent a combo gun uses common parts

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