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#124106 - 02/17/08 10:19 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: Blast]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
He got away from his attackers with what was on him. Unfortunately it did not do him a great deal of good. He may have had companions who perished in the attack - or been attacked by those companions.

Unfortunately, we will never know. We can only make an educated guess based on criminal forensics.

The people of his time where not a great deal different to us. Same desires, wants & motives. Good and bad.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#124107 - 02/17/08 10:29 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: Russ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
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Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
An attack on an armed individual carries a considerable element of risk. Therefore it follows that he was attacked for a reason. Most likely something he was carrying. I seriously doubt that he was travelling alone. One, possibly more companion is more likely. Wife, Brother, close relative, member of his tribe.

Its unusual for lone travelers to be attacked. Unless your a member of a tribe at feud/war with another tribe. You are more likely to be welcomed. If only for the news and infomation you have. They might want to trade with your people later. And showing hospitality is a good way to open the door.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#124112 - 02/17/08 01:40 PM Re: weight vs. value [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
raydarkhorse Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
An attack on an armed individual carries a considerable element of risk. Therefore it follows that he was attacked for a reason. Most likely something he was carrying. I seriously doubt that he was travelling alone. One, possibly more companion is more likely. Wife, Brother, close relative, member of his tribe.

Its unusual for lone travelers to be attacked. Unless your a member of a tribe at feud/war with another tribe. You are more likely to be welcomed. If only for the news and infomation you have. They might want to trade with your people later. And showing hospitality is a good way to open the door.


I’m not an archeologist but, from stories my grand parent, great grand parents told a person who found his way into the village/camp was not usually harmed there, but that protection did not extend to after he left. Though it may be unusual to attack a lone stranger in our minds in the not to distant past a stranger was an enemy. Lone travelers would have been more likely to be attacked because of a decided advantage in numbers, or weapons. We can't place our values and morals on a past culture their lives were so different, and in a lot of cases morals and values would have been dictated by those differences.
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Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

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#124151 - 02/17/08 08:47 PM Re: weight vs. value [Re: CANOEDOGS]
AROTC Offline
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
I just picked up and read a book called The Soldier's Load and The Mobility of a Nation. It was a fascinating read, about how modern technology had transformed logistics but that the military mind hadn't caught up and was unlikely to. It was written just after World War II and I have to say that sixty years later the words still ring true.

After reading I was sorely tempted to recite some of the insights here. However, the more I thought about it the more I realized that very little of what the author says about loading a soldier translates to how we should load ourselves in anticipation of a possible survival situation. The book says that as mechanical transport brings the frontline and the rear echelon closer together the soldier's individual load should be reduced to preserve strength for combat. This doesn't apply at all to the sort of survival we're preparing for, since by its very nature we would be cut off from any supply or support outside of what we carry on our backs.

What the book said that does apply to us is that experienced soldiers will dump any equipment they are given that doesn't immediately apply to the battle he is fighting. For us it's important to recognize our personal tolerance for carrying weight we don't intend to use. Some people are content carrying a forty pound pack and won't leave it behind the one day they actually need it. Other people find anything that bulges in their pockets to be an excessive encumbrance. Finding the limit of your tolerance for extra weight and eliminating anything in excess is key. Because while we don't intend to move around once we are in a survival situation, we will be moving around to get into that situation and our kit has to be on our backs or it simply doesn't do a single wit of good.
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A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#124154 - 02/17/08 09:33 PM Re: weight vs. value [Re: AROTC]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi Arotic,

I agree with you on your thoughts that each person has their own tolerance for extra weight/gear and that in a survival situation useless material will be abandoned. I tend to be a little heavy on the EDC of survival items but I would bet that most Forum members are. I think this is OK as long as you are willing/capable to carry the load and realise that in different situations you may have to discard some equipment to achieve the priority survival goal of that moment (e.g. if you fall through the ice you may have to drop your pack).

"This doesn't apply at all to the sort of survival we're preparing for, since by its very nature we would be cut off from any supply or support outside of what we carry on our backs."

I find myself disagreeing with part of the above statement though. It is often the mechanical failure of my transport vehicle (truck, ATV, snowmobile, boat, aircraft, etc) that causes me to be in a survival situation. Unless the vehicle was consumed in a fire or sunk to the bottom of a lake, I usually have the vehicle itself and the load of survival equipment in it to help me improve my situation. I surely would not walk away from the security/visibility of my vehicle and all that useful equipment, with just what I could carry, unless safety was very close by or in a last resort situation.

Each occurence if different and Stopping long enough to Think clearly, throughly Observing your situation/resources then developing/implementing a Plan, will get you out of most difficulties.

My $0.02 cents.

Mike



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#124173 - 02/18/08 01:14 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: SwampDonkey]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
I wasn't thinking at all about situations that begin at a disabled vehicle. But vehicle or no vehicle an individual in a survival situation is fundamentally different then an army with solid logistical support which can evacuate casualties, bring in re-enforcements or bring in supplies that may or may not have been in the initial plan. We don't have that option. No casevac, no cold weather clothing if we didn't pack it. As you point out though, if you start from a vehicle the difference is far less pronounced, you don't have to strike as delicate balance between carrying everything you need and not leaving a heavy pack at home. Your car can carry your heavy pack it just can't get you home or to a hospital.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#124177 - 02/18/08 02:33 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: AROTC]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Resource budgeting:

Hacksaw added a powerful insight differentiating gear and supplies of one-time or limited-time use [consumables] versus gear and supplies that with care offer survival support for an extended time.

Careful focus on needs versus wants to acquire skill / knowledge on creating replacements / substitutes for the consumables as a high priority seems as prudent as part of survival preparation.

While acquiring gear, and skills to use gear, that offer survival support for an extended time seems to share high priority, the needs versus wants analysis suggests minimizing resources committed to this stuff to only the most critical – at least until you have committed your resources to acquiring what you feel is a comfortable level of skill / knowledge on creating replacements / substitutes for the consumables.

Some disciplined choices here are bound to frustrate the desire for “toys,” at least at first.

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#125297 - 02/26/08 02:37 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: mtnhiker]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: mtnlvr68
I am having a love/hate relationship with the crusader canteen/stove kit.

Love/hate relationship? Mainly due to weight?

I know that my USGI canteen, cup, and carrier is a lot heavier than any of my other water bottles.

The Crusader (OK, OK, I know this is "unpatriotic") looks like a better set up than the USGI set up. I like the wider mouth if nothing else.
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Adventures In Stoving

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#125298 - 02/26/08 02:43 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
My #1 don't leave home without it survival item is my Wiggy bag.

All right, here I go displaying my ignorance, but what the Sam Hill is a Wiggy Bag? Some sort of bivy sack? Sleeping bag?
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Adventures In Stoving

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#125307 - 02/26/08 03:28 AM Re: weight vs. value [Re: Hikin_Jim]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California

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