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#124995 - 02/24/08 01:18 AM Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
A lot of equipment depends on batteries.

There are lithium cells that store well, are light, have more capacity and perform particularly well in the cold. They are good for critical uses. Down side is they are are expensive. Too expensive for routine use in high demand and non-critical devices.

You can also get into rechargeable batteries but these have serious limitations. NiCd, nickel cadmium, batteries self-discharge rapidly. which means you can't tuck them away and expect to have a charged cell to work with. If you store them you have to store them in a charger or spend time charging them for use. NiNH, nickel metal hydride, cells are better but they still self-discharge and they are more expensive than the NiCds.

Li-ion, lithium ion, batteries are good. They hold a charge, don't appreciably self-discharge, are light, have high capacity for their size and they perform fairly well in the cold. Down side is they are expensive and unavailable in many of the most common sizes. And, possibly worse of all, they essentially self-destruct after about three years. Even if they aren't used.

On the other hand alkaline cells are available just about anywhere for cheap in most common sizes. In terms of power output for money spent, ability to hold power when stored, dependability, graceful acceptance of wear, and generally acceptable performance they are the go-to batteries of choice.

But not all alkaline batteries are equal.

I have had no-name, off-brand alkaline cells that were essentially discharged when brand new. After a few minutes use they were completely gone. Even though they were years before their use-by date. The lesson I learned was to avoid off-brand cells.

The other brand of alkaline cells I am leery of is Rayovac. They last and store well enough. But of all major brands they are, by far, the most likely to leak. I sometimes still buy them but I have to take care to check them twice as often as any other major brand. I try to take extra care to replace them as soon as they get weak and making doubly sure that at the first sign of bulging, discoloration or other sign of impending leakage they get replaced.

Energizer alkaline are pretty much mid-grade. Good but nothing special.

Duracells are my preferred major brand. They seem to last a little longer in storage and in use. I can't remember them ever leaking even when foolishly kept in a device completely discharged.

The surprise bargain is Sears Die-Hard brand alkaline cells. I have been told they were made by Duracell but that was years ago so that may have changed. The bottom line on these is that I have always gotten average or better performance at a good 40% discount when I buy them in bulk packs.

What brands of alkaline cells have you had good or bad experiences with? Which brands do you trust? which ones have let your down? Have you noticed any brands that destroy your equipment?

Maybe you don't agree with my estimation of the available rechargeable batteries or lithiums and use them all the time. How is that working out for you?

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#125000 - 02/24/08 02:03 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
ame Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 162
Loc: Korea
Panasonic recently released their "evolta" alkaline cell:

http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/panasonic-s-evolta-world-s-longest-lasting-alkaline-battery/

Of course, the claims are substantial, but because this is a new product it will be a while before anecdotal evidence proves or disproves the manufacturer's claims.

I haven't seen any yet (and I am currently in Japan) but I'm keeping an eye out for them.

Cheers,

A

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#125001 - 02/24/08 02:05 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi Art_in_FL

Rechargeable Alkalines might be the way to go for long storage life combined with moderate drain intermitant use such as in radios, remote controls, GPS devices etc. If long storage life is important then the new rechargeable Alkalines have similar characteristics as normal single use Alkalines. For higher drain use such as flashlights and cameras etc then the Eneloop, Infinium NiMh are excellent, having a storage life greater than 12 months losing only 20% of the initial charge.

http://www.pureenergybattery.com/technology2.html

http://www.budgetbatteries.co.uk/20956/charger-rechargeable-alkaline-with-4-x-aa-xl-ram-batteries-aa-aaa/?utm_source=shopsubmit&$$tid=WDfiSn0C1VvUDHbOXe6CrXJe0FH1Favw8KJHWS0soR9THnNRt4mh1JcqQWnf_Qiq&=






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#125004 - 02/24/08 02:20 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Whole heartedly agree with the Duracells as the brand to go with. I like them better than Energizer alkalines and Titaniums. I buy them in larger packs of 16/24 and feed them to my GPSr and camera. (Also they make great geocache swag!)

I also use rechargeable NiMH for my equipment but only get about half the life as the Duracells. Lithiums AA are nice in certain types of high current draw equipment. For example, I used a pair in my beard trimmer and they lasted almost a full year compared to Energizer alkalines (1 month). However because of the higher initial voltage and discharge rate of the lithiums, some equipment manufacturers recommend not to use them. Lithiums have exceptional shelf life and work much better in the cold than other batteries but cost considerably more.

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#125009 - 02/24/08 02:47 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

You can also get into rechargeable batteries but these have serious limitations. NiCd, nickel cadmium, batteries self-discharge rapidly. which means you can't tuck them away and expect to have a charged cell to work with. If you store them you have to store them in a charger or spend time charging them for use. NiNH, nickel metal hydride, cells are better but they still self-discharge and they are more expensive than the NiCds.


traditionally NiMH have self discharged worse than Nicad and some of the newer NiMH self discharge quite fast (2500mAh for exmaple)
There are however a new style of NiMH that are low self discharge. Sanyo Eneloop, RayOVac Hybrid, etc are some of the names. Those discharge 1-2% per month instead of the 1-2% per day like a normal NiMH.

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

Li-ion, lithium ion, batteries are good. They hold a charge, don't appreciably self-discharge, are light, have high capacity for their size and they perform fairly well in the cold. Down side is they are expensive and unavailable in many of the most common sizes. And, possibly worse of all, they essentially self-destruct after about three years. Even if they aren't used.


They don't self destruct, they loose approx 20% of their capacity per year so in about three years there capacity is low enough they are considered worn out. They have a good power to weight ration but with them not having much of a standard size and wearing out in a short time I defiantly don't consider them good, I avoid them where I can.

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL



The other brand of alkaline cells I am leery of is Rayovac. They last and store well enough. But of all major brands they are, by far, the most likely to leak. I sometimes still buy them but I have to take care to check them twice as often as any other major brand. I try to take extra care to replace them as soon as they get weak and making doubly sure that at the first sign of bulging, discoloration or other sign of impending leakage they get replaced.




Funny the only cells I've had leak are rayovac also.

I've standardized on Sanyo Eneloop, the low self discharge holds true, when I pull my gear out and test it I find the run time is as good with eneloop as it is with alkaline.

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#125010 - 02/24/08 02:49 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Hi Art_in_FL

Rechargeable Alkalines might be the way to go for long storage life combined with moderate drain intermitant use such as in radios, remote controls, GPS devices etc. If long storage life is important then the new rechargeable Alkalines have similar characteristics as normal single use Alkalines. For higher drain use such as flashlights and cameras etc then the Eneloop, Infinium NiMh are excellent, having a storage life greater than 12 months losing only 20% of the initial charge.

http://www.pureenergybattery.com/technology2.html

http://www.budgetbatteries.co.uk/20956/charger-rechargeable-alkaline-with-4-x-aa-xl-ram-batteries-aa-aaa/?utm_source=shopsubmit&$$tid=WDfiSn0C1VvUDHbOXe6CrXJe0FH1Favw8KJHWS0soR9THnNRt4mh1JcqQWnf_Qiq&=



I wasted a lot of $ over the years on rechargeable alkaline, they don not hold up well long term.

Low Self Discharge NiMH are the best I've used so far.

that pureenegry link where they compare is quite bad. for example, for memory (it should be memory effect) Nicad should be some, Nimh should be almost none. NiMH full discharge life should be >500. Then then forgot about the low self discharge NiMH which have all the corrections I noted above as well as a shelf life of a couple years and ready to use out of the package.


Edited by Eugene (02/24/08 03:05 AM)

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#125012 - 02/24/08 02:51 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Eugene]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
The other part of the re-chargeable battery picture is the charger.
The chargers you get at radio shack, walmart, best buy, home depot, etc are all crap. Spend a couple extra $ on a MAHA or LaCross and your batteries will reward you. I was able to rejuvenate some 1999 vintage NiMH that I use in kid toys now after I thought they were worn out due to poor quality chargers. So I'm running near 10 years on those batteries and the only reason they are not used in my gear is I've replaced them with the low self discharge.
I've standardized on Sanyo Eneloop and have been running them for over a year now and I get run time equal or better than Alkaline even after they have been sitting for months.

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#125014 - 02/24/08 02:54 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
For alkaline cells, I prefer Duracell.

NiMH rechargeables have fairly recently made great strides in reducing self-discharge. Low self-discharge (LSD) NiMH cells in AA and AAA have been out for a while, but only very recently have they come out in C and D sizes. Sanyo Eneloops are the most popular and arguably the best brand of LSD NiMH out there. For those who have been disappointed with NiMH in certain equipment might want to give LSD NiMH a chance. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much better they work than the older generation of NiMH.

NiCd still has its place, too. They can tolerate quick charging and high discharge rates well. They can take a lot of abuse like being overcharged in dumb chargers which will fry NiMH cells. And they are still the only rechargeable cells that flashlights rated for hazardous environments are certified for, that I am aware of.

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#125016 - 02/24/08 03:02 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
For straight, non-rechargable, alkalines, Duracell and Kirkland (Costco brand)...
_________________________
OBG

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#125018 - 02/24/08 03:36 AM Re: Alkaline cell brands - Good/Bad [Re: Art_in_FL]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
I consider, Silverfox's "Alkaline Battery Shoot Out" (includes AA and AAA lithium cells) the definitive word on alkaline battery performance. He also did one on NiMh , Li-ion , 123A cells and battery chargers.

Personally, I try to use lithium cells wherever possible. There are ways to make this more affordable.

1) Order the batteries online. You can get a much better deal through the Internet than in brick and mortar stores, esp. for 123A cells.
2) Some devices are more efficient than others. In a flashlight, get an LED light with multi output levels. The new LEDs are getting really impressive in terms of efficiency and it is amazing how much a multi-output light will save.

Next, when it comes to re-chargeable devices, I try to get ones that use lithium-ion batteries (read NewBie's "Li-Ion protection technology and possible dangers"!).

In fact, my EDC flashlight pretty much uses all the tricks listed above. It has four primary output modes .3 lumen, 10 lumens, 30 lumens and 85 lumens. It has an 18650 lithium-ion battery pack as my primary carry, with a 2x123A battery pack as my spare.

I do keep alkaline cells, but only for things that are not compatible with lithium batteries, or for things (as you point out) that get used quickly.

-john


Edited by JohnN (02/24/08 03:40 AM)

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