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#124730 - 02/21/08 08:51 PM Re: BOB Question [Re: benjammin]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Hiding only means they will go to greater lengths to find it. If an agency like this suspects you have something, usually either by informants or by casing your mo over time, they will come in and tear the place up until they find what they are looking for. It's not much different than when someone like the DEA or ATF decide a residence has contraband on it, whether they have real proof or not, it is their level of certainty, also known as reasonable suspicion, that gets them in the door with the metal detectors and the ground penetrating radar and the sniffer hounds and they will tear up everything, inlcuding the back yard and the walls of your house, until they either find what they are looking for or by process of elimination determine it simply isn't there. Oh and once they are done demolishing your house, they might apologize, pack up, and leave. Good luck making a claim for damages then. You are not likely to receive any remuneration whatsoever.


Why would the emergency services bother with that, during a crisis? Getting trucks loads of food, equipment, etc. from other places in the country is by far more efficient in personnel, cheaper, doesn't acquire legal issues, no issues with compensating the owner and you get what you ordered. During crisis the emergency services want to do things as efficient and as easily as possible.

_________________________


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#124738 - 02/21/08 10:12 PM Re: BOB Question [Re: Tjin]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
I don’t know that there would be any real legal issues, those with the guns make the rules & laws. It’s not against the law for them to take whatever they want.
_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#124753 - 02/22/08 12:07 AM Re: BOB Question [Re: BobS]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> How do you go about protecting your main survival items that you
> had to leave in your home when you bugged out?
>SNIP<
> When I return I want my stuff there for me

I think there's a disconnect in your comments. If you are bugging out, I don't think you'll have much to return to. People have mentioned Katrina in this thread, and I think that's a good reference point. People _still_ haven't returned to New Orleans. Long term survival in New Orleans did mean looting for food and clothes for those people too poor to get out. If I have to bug out, my thinking is that there won't be much to return to if I even get to return.

In my area (the San Francisco Bay Area), our emergency officers are telling us that if we have a major earthquake and my hometown is destroyed and burned (likely in an earthquake), don't expect it to be rebuilt. Some rebuilding will be done, of course, but they promise the town will not be restored to its former glory.

I won't get the chance to bug out in an earthquake - we won't know it's coming. If you live in an area where you'll have the opportunity to get out of town, you might expect your home to be destroyed while you're gone; if not, major damage. If not major damage, then some. When you come back, you'll have to wait for insurance claims, building permits (depending on the extent of the damage), and you may not have access to supermarkets, stores, and the like for some period of time.

My personal take is that having any contents left is a surprise. If the emergency lasts as long as Katrina, I expect most people to be hitting the stores for food and supplies, not private homes. But if I've left long term, and people are reduced to breaking and entering so they can eat, I'm not going to complain when I get back. I'll be grateful I had a place to eat and sleep.

Frankly, I expect to be one of the people abandoned in place while emergency services providers try to ship us 18-wheelers full of ice.

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#124783 - 02/22/08 03:18 AM Re: BOB Question [Re: BobS]
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
You can down load the book "How to Hide Anything" here
_________________________
When in danger or in doubt
run in circles scream and shout
RAH

And always remember TANSTAAFL

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#124786 - 02/22/08 03:44 AM Re: BOB Question [Re: philip]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Originally Posted By: philip
> How do you go about protecting your main survival items that you
> had to leave in your home when you bugged out?
>SNIP<
> When I return I want my stuff there for me

I think there's a disconnect in your comments. If you are bugging out, I don't think you'll have much to return to. People have mentioned Katrina in this thread, and I think that's a good reference point. People _still_ haven't returned to New Orleans. Long term survival in New Orleans did mean looting for food and clothes for those people too poor to get out. If I have to bug out, my thinking is that there won't be much to return to if I even get to return.

In my area (the San Francisco Bay Area), our emergency officers are telling us that if we have a major earthquake and my hometown is destroyed and burned (likely in an earthquake), don't expect it to be rebuilt. Some rebuilding will be done, of course, but they promise the town will not be restored to its former glory.

I won't get the chance to bug out in an earthquake - we won't know it's coming. If you live in an area where you'll have the opportunity to get out of town, you might expect your home to be destroyed while you're gone; if not, major damage. If not major damage, then some. When you come back, you'll have to wait for insurance claims, building permits (depending on the extent of the damage), and you may not have access to supermarkets, stores, and the like for some period of time.

My personal take is that having any contents left is a surprise. If the emergency lasts as long as Katrina, I expect most people to be hitting the stores for food and supplies, not private homes. But if I've left long term, and people are reduced to breaking and entering so they can eat, I'm not going to complain when I get back. I'll be grateful I had a place to eat and sleep.

Frankly, I expect to be one of the people abandoned in place while emergency services providers try to ship us 18-wheelers full of ice.



I live next to a oil refinery, they have had fires in the past. One big one in 1979 shook every window in the house. I’m close to the tank farm; I could walk up to the fence in under 1-min. Its 200-yards away. So I could easily see moving away from it if there was a very big fire or explosion, or threat of one. It may not take out anyone’s house, but you never know. The 1979 explosion & fire had smoke that could be seen in Lima Ohio (80-miles away) it was contained after a day of fireman fighting it, but could have been much worst. So I don’t see it as detached to want to bug out because it could go big and at the same time expecting the house to still be there when the fire is over.

_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#124793 - 02/22/08 07:34 AM Re: BOB Question [Re: BobS]
Sventek Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Kailua, Hawai'i
I'd also worry about confiscation of weapons.

I'm sure many of you have seen this, but...
Gun confiscation during Katrina:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

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#124796 - 02/22/08 10:56 AM Re: BOB Question [Re: ]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
So no one can give an example of anyone ever being arrested for hoarding, or knows where these 'laws' are. Sounds like a myth.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#124799 - 02/22/08 12:11 PM Re: BOB Question [Re: BobS]
jasond Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 52
Loc: North Carolina
They are not laws they are executive orders and they do exist. Can I give you an example of when they were actually used? No but they do exist. Here is a link that tells a little about it.

http://members.aol.com/poesgirl/storing.html

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#124818 - 02/22/08 03:32 PM Re: BOB Question [Re: BobS]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
IMO, hoarding laws target sellers trying to make windfall profit from a bad situation by holding back necessary items to run the price up. I don't see FEMA raiding homes of private citizens/end user/consumer to take their meager food supplies for distro at a shelter. Being an end user, I stockpile, I don't hoard -- there's a difference.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#124821 - 02/22/08 04:17 PM Re: BOB Question [Re: Russ]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Originally Posted By: Russ
IMO, hoarding laws target sellers trying to make windfall profit


Bingo!!!
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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