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Where do you want to go on ETS?

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#122938 - 02/07/08 04:56 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: ]
shillo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 3
Couldnt you use a metal soap dish or tobaco tin instead? Then you would have something to cook in.

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#122940 - 02/07/08 05:16 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi Taurus,

If all went as planned, you should have a PM.

Mike

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#122949 - 02/07/08 05:59 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: SwampDonkey]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 857
Loc: Colorado
Really, really fun thread!

While I own one of those mysterious soap dishes the US Submarine Service did not expect me to pack survival gear in it....

My understanding of the setup suggests to me that the point of the exercise is to have the soldier go to ground and wait. Being under observation with NVG's says the soldier had best not even try going anywhere. Constructing an effective hide, staying warm, staying hydrated and above all not getting fidgety and getting caught moving around out of boredom are the objects.

Great mental exercise!

I'm torn between asking for a post-exercise debrief and noting that discussing this might be borderline opsec disclosure.

For us survival-oriented folks the getting caught part is why this is so hard. If you aren't worried about getting caught (and killed) then getting comfortable is a great deal easier.

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#122963 - 02/07/08 08:06 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Taurus
Leigh_Ratcliffe Ė Donít take what I said the wrong way, I wasnít knocking your idea with the bug repellent, itís just that our issued stuff (a cream almost like sun screen) does have a slight smell to it. Itís not as bad as civilian stuff smell wise, but I donít want to underestimate the smelling power of a dog. It has such a high DEET content that it is unavailable to civvies. The only way to get it is to know a guy on the inside. I love the Kukri knives but if I can only have one I like one which can handle smaller tasks (which the Kukri lacks). I find the kukri a bit too big for my tastes while on duty (but thatís just my preference) I am sure if push comes to shove like a situ you are describing my LMF II will be an adequate throat cutter. smirk



I haven't taken anything you said the wrong way, believe me smile

Also: PM refer the repellent.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#122974 - 02/07/08 10:18 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: unimogbert]
Taurus Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 446
Loc: Northern Canada
unimogbert -
Quote:
For us survival-oriented folks the getting caught part is why this is so hard. If you aren't worried about getting caught (and killed) then getting comfortable is a great deal easier.


True, that is the hardest part of this ex. In the scenario, the Enemy is unaware of your possible presence but is actively patrolling in the area. You are not being hunted per se, but they scan the area often. If they see you then you fail, but you wont know you failed till after the exercise. On the advanced course you are being tracked to some degree. We used to do escape and evasion exercises in which you had to make it from point A to B without being caught(even if you were spotted they still had to physically catch you) In this exercise you are supposed to be a P.O.W and ALL you have is a pair of coveralls with a huge P painted on the back and boots with the laces removed.(nothing else) You only have so long to reach your safe point so you are trying to beat the clock as much as the cold. My unit hasnít done one of these exercises in a long time as it tends to scare the public a bit too much (and because people really got hurt on these) Picture this, 3 oíclock in the morning and some farmer looks out his window to see a guy with a prisoner outfit hopping his fence and trying to dash across his field to hide behind his barn.(nothing good will come of this situation) They used to announce on the radio and stuff before these E&E exercises to prevent confusion in the civilian world but a lot of people didnít hear about it all the same. You can imagine the chaos that caused!!

ahh the good old days. grin


Buy the way folks; I have been informed via a PM that the military issued bug repellant I have been talking about is for sale on eBay. No idea how the hell it got there but there it is (or what appears to be VERY close to it)

It never ceases to amaze me what shows up on that site.........

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#122975 - 02/07/08 10:19 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
This sounds like a competition in the making. Set up a scenario similar to the one Taurus has presented. Establish the ground rules (size of soap dish, how must it be closed, etc.) and have each contestant make her or his own dish kit. It would have to be done for real (hard to judge whether a theoretical PSK would fit in a theoretical soap dish). Each entry would consist of a list of items and pictures of the items outside and inside the soap dish. Winner to be decided as the most appropriate, best fit, most inventive, etc.

Setting the rules and scenario would be a monumental thread in itself. Perhaps Taurus and the moderators could judge (a good way, Taurus to establish your evaluation standards for your exercise). Get Mr. Ritter to throw in a prize (a DR PSK, of course). I'm not a survival expert but I do earn a living by doing technical evaluations so I'd be glad to help codify the rules.

Any interest?


Edited by Andy (02/07/08 10:20 PM)
Edit Reason: typing on moving train
_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

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#122976 - 02/07/08 10:31 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Andy]
Taurus Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 446
Loc: Northern Canada
Ha, Nice twist.

How could you truly Judge as to what is BEST though ? You could have 10 different kits, all of which may be perfectly suited to the needs of the user. It would be a tough one to call for sure.

Besides, the only way to truly know how it will work is if the people who pack the kits actually USE them to see. That is the greatest test.

Maybe we could take Blast up on his offer and all go to Texas for three nights for one big ass ETS survival exercise. I don't think Mr. Ritter will pay for that though..... frown

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#122984 - 02/07/08 11:53 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Taurus Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 446
Loc: Northern Canada
Since a lot of people have been asking, Here is an Almost exact double of the one I used last time as a student. I will use it again as a training aid when I am the instructor to explain what was good/bad about my choices. The list is at the front of this thread somewhere.

The items layed out:

[img][IMG]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3848/soapdisksk002ut6.th.jpg[/img][/img]


The items inside the dish:

[img][IMG]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3521/soapdisksk003wy8.th.jpg[/img][/img]
It was a very big pain in the a** getting the lid to fully close on this.
For those who said they would pack things like large garbage bags, hard candy etc this will give you a good idea of the limits imposed by this survival exercise. Note that no items are allowed to be attached outside the case in any way.

Before you all jump on me this was the dish we were given, Yes its purple I know!! Not exactly a man color but at least you would see it if you dropped it. blush

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#123045 - 02/08/08 01:32 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Taurus
We used to do escape and evasion exercises in which you had to make it from point A to B without being caught(even if you were spotted they still had to physically catch you) In this exercise you are supposed to be a P.O.W and ALL you have is a pair of coveralls with a huge P painted on the back and boots with the laces removed.(nothing else) You only have so long to reach your safe point so you are trying to beat the clock as much as the cold.

If you want to be even more sadistic, try the scenario in a scifi novel I read somewhere: Four pilots and one spec-ops guy get dropped off in the middle of nowhere. The pilots' goal is to get spotted by SAR and rescued at which point they pass and get to go home. The the fifth guy's mission is to prevent the other four from being rescued for two weeks, at which point only HE passes the course.

smile
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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