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#121166 - 01/23/08 04:31 AM Re: Coyote alert [Re: benjammin]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
That's right out here on the coast. Didn't see/hear that.

OTOH, go a bit further north, and the Makah tribe saw fit to use a machine gun on a gray whale. When I worked among the Chehalis tribe, I kept asking if they had heard what the Makahs were doing with the whale they killed legally, but no one knew. I have a problem visualizing the white bread, hamburger and french fries tribe eating blubber.

Cynical Sue

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#121201 - 01/23/08 02:59 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: Susan]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Actually quite a few of them claimed to eat it, and it is served at potlatch from what I hear, but I think the whale hunting revival was more an assertion of their "limited sovereignity" than it was for environmental concerns. I would consider though that even the Makahs are expected to abide by the limitations imposed by international treaty regulating the taking of whales.

Still, I would much rather see them do it the traditional way, rather than using a big 50 bmg. Apparently they are required to spear the animal from their traditional whaling boat first, then they can shoot it with the 50 to reduce it's suffering and limit the risk of injury to the hunters. Contrary to the old Iron Eyes Cody commercial, not all injuns are environmentally friendly.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#121211 - 01/23/08 05:20 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: ]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
LOL

I got a little injun in me as well, though according to my Cherokee/Cheyenne brother if I cut my finger again I will be out of the tribe.

My daughter being half Cherokee also uses the term injun, as does my wife who undoubtedly has some Lakota injun in her, though no record of it exists because back then it was bad medicine to proclaim injun heritage.

I think I started using the term as a reference when one of the old injuns at a pow-wow I was at in Pendleton Oregon used it to refer to all the injuns that were there from all over the country. Now, me being so fair skinned, I won't say what they called me, mostly cuz I forgot how to pronounce it. Let's just say I was danged glad to have my very injun looking daughter with me at the time. We'd sit in the bleachers and the injun women would come around with lunch and offer some to her but not to me sitting there with her, so I knew none of them were thinking I was injun at all, but that's okay. As I told my brother, heritage plays a relatively small part in who we really are. Whether injun or irish or whatever our ancestry is, in point of fact we were all Americans now, and the blood Grandad had running through his veins didn't have much bearing on who I turned out to be, unless I choose to let it. In other words, if you think you are injun, then you are injun. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, it just depends on how I feel at the time I suppose. I try not to let other people define who I am if I can help it. If you see me wearing buckskins and feathers and trying to speak injun then you can figure I am injun at the time, or not.

My daughter figured that out last year while attending a very liberal "Native American Cultural Studies" class. They were having a tough time trying to define her by the color of her skin, asking her how she felt about what someone did to someone else a hundred or so years ago. She pretty much concluded that most of them were just trying to find someone or something else to blame for their problems.

Sorry for the confusion, but any connotation or assumption you make about my intentions is purely subjective, and dictated solely by your own convictions. I've never used the term in a derogatory context, so I don't understand or agree with the basis for your claim.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#121255 - 01/23/08 11:29 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: benjammin]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


You can make feeble attempts to be a spin doctor, make up all the stories, anecdote and excuses you want. However I will put this as simply as I can so you might try to understand.

Using the term injun is an extremely derogatory term and is not appreciated by me or a lot of other Native Indians....

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#121301 - 01/24/08 12:02 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: OldBaldGuy]
TomApple Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Suffolk, Va.
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
"...There are way too many deer - far more than before westerners colonized the US..."

Really? I wonder how we know this? Who counted them way back then???


That is certainly the case in Virginia. During the 17th century the local Indians were having to hunt more to the west up past the fall line to find deer easily. Hunting in the tidewater region was mostly for migratory waterfowl at that time. The lands since opened up by agriculture have provided a better food supply than the forests. There is a lot more open grassland for grazing plus the opportunities provided by crops like corn and soybean.

The big concern in Virginia over coyotes is livestock losses. Farmers have been taking hits in their sheep and cattle and aren't too pleased about it.

Tom A.

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#121308 - 01/24/08 01:06 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: ]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
My apologies then for using a word you consider derogatory.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#121311 - 01/24/08 01:23 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: benjammin]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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OBG

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#121317 - 01/24/08 01:37 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: benjammin]
Virginia_Mark Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: benjammin
My apologies then for using a word you consider derogatory.



"you consider" wow thats an apology?

Well speaking for the Eastcoast Powhatan Nation, you should consider kissing my ass, sport. smirk
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#121320 - 01/24/08 02:29 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: Virginia_Mark]
TomApple Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Suffolk, Va.
Originally Posted By: Run2The9
Originally Posted By: benjammin
My apologies then for using a word you consider derogatory.



"you consider" wow thats an apology?

Well speaking for the Eastcoast Powhatan Nation, you should consider kissing my ass, sport. smirk


Hmmm... Eastcoast Powhatan Nation?

I didn't know such a nation existed. There was a Powhatan Confederation back in the 17th century of which many tribes still exist. I happen to to know several people from some of the tribes (Nansemond, Mattaponi, Pamunkey) who really are fed up with the political correctness shoved down their throats by other "Native American" activists. In fact they have petitioned the Virginia General Assembly NOT to use the term "Native American" in reference to them. Many of them are tired of the cultural cleansing attempted by Western tribes in expunging Algonquin words such as "squaw" from being used under the pretense that they are offensive to every Indian.

Every once in a while some do-gooder activist, usually non-Indian, moves into town to protest something like the local high school football team being called the "Warriors" and using an image of an Indian in their logo. Then the chief of one of the local tribes usally has to tell the complainer to shut-up.

So if I were you, I'd be hesitant to voice the outrage of several independent tribes when you really don't speak for them. Your unwillingness to accept Benjamin's apology really reflects poorly on yourself.

Too many people have a hair-trigger offense mechanism and go into a tizzy when someone offends them regardless of the intent. Benjamin apologized, he intended no offense, that should be all there is to it. It's like there is some sort of racial McCarthyism at play.

Tom A.



Edited by TomApple (01/24/08 02:30 PM)

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#121321 - 01/24/08 02:35 PM Re: Coyote alert [Re: TomApple]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
+1, excellent post.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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