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#11756 - 03/17/04 06:58 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1066
Loc: Germany
improvised knuckle duster to break car window in an emergency (note - havent actually tried this)

This will only work with tempered glass. When you use it like a knuckle duster you will very likely be bruised without breaking the glass. The best technique would be punching with the radius of the carabiner (very much like hammering a door with your fist). The glass tends to take more than one punch before it breaks. You should wear gloves when you try. Punching with a pointy object (e. g. a nail) breaks the glass with less force.
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

#11757 - 03/17/04 08:44 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...

Might want to rethink the fish hooks, they're great for birds and small game too, just gotta bait 'em right.


#11758 - 03/17/04 08:50 PM Re: Interesting opinion about survival kits
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 923
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
I agree - survival in a non-military situation is usually completely different from someone in a "behind enemy lines" escape and evasion. The latter is more akin to someone escaping from prison and trying to avoid the searchers.

If you're not trying to escape from the local authorities (for whatever reason) then the almost universal rule of thumb is to stay where you are and wait to be found. The major exceptions to this are:

1. You're experienced and skilled enough to find your own way out. According to some of the NASAR publications I've read, about one third of all lost hunters rescue themselves.

2. You know that no-one is going to be looking for you (e.g. the Chilean(Argentinian?) soccer players in "Alive"), or they're going to be looking in the wrong place (e.g your light plane has been forced 50 miles off course to avoid bad weather and your ELT is busted).

3. You're in an inhospitable location without enough supplies or equipment to survive if you stay put. (Joe Simpson's "Touching the Void" has been discussed in a number of threads recently; he admits in his book that their cardinal mistake was trying to reduce weight by leaving excess fuel behind. For the want of a $5 canister of gas they both almost died. Had they had one more canister of gas for the stove, they could have holed up in a snow cave, melted some snow to quench their thirst, and waited for the storm to break. Without it, they had no choice but to continue descending the mountain in a whiteout.)
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."

#11759 - 03/17/04 08:51 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...

Unless you're willing to cut your hand up pretty bad, DON'T.

#11760 - 03/17/04 08:57 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...

I'm in the Uk also, and like you, I don't carry a PSK. I do have a large, variable EDC. I live in the country and spend much of my life outdoors. This means that my EDC usually includes a large folding saw (Bahco Laplander) as well as a fixed blade + a lot more stuff.

Like you I don't carry any food or foraging equipment, but I do have a fair knowledge of wildfoods. Knowledge plays the part of a huge amount of gear that you could carry, and it weighs nothing. Once you have a knowledge base, you can see that practically every plant in the british hedgerows is edible!

Sorry this is a bit of a waffle.

#11761 - 03/17/04 09:06 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...
dave750gixer Offline

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 60
Loc: UK
I wasnt thinking of holding a carabiner in my fist and punching through the glass with an uppercut. Hold carabider in fist and strike downwards - using side of hand not fingers end, the way you would use a through tang knife like the Falkniven F1 to hammer on tent pegs. and with lots of small blows aimed at the window not through it. to crack first not pile all the way through on a big blow and lacerate my hand. The carabiner I have is not symmetrical and has a ridge round the circumferance which gives some of the advantages of a nail but easier to use. It is difficult to hold a nail and strike with it without your fingers sliding down towards the glass. You may not have something available to strike the nail with (if you did obviously the nail would be a better option) and I dread to think of the injuries you could sustain by striking the nail with the heel of your hand. this is emergency use if I actually had something available nearby desinged to break through glass like you see on trains then I would use that in preference

I suppose the best emergency window breaker would be steel tipped heel on a pair of stilletos but unlikely to be available unless you are a) female or b) on your way to a showing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

just reread this lot and realised someone else had already explained this was the way to do it - sorry. I was replying very long windedly just to agree with someone <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> been a long day!

Edited by dave750gixer (03/17/04 09:27 PM)

#11762 - 03/17/04 09:12 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...

Edible, yes, tasty, no. Pretty much the same here in the states, with a few (very) poisonous exceptions. try out the plants you're sure of before you need them and you'll find that a spice kit is invaluable (mine includes: garlic powder, onion powder, Heinz 57 steak sauce, which is great on more than just steak, and of course Tobasco). With a few spices, anything that's nutrient-valuable can be made to taste good enough to eat, no sense in not enjoying your meal. <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


#11763 - 03/17/04 09:37 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...
ScottRezaLogan Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 723
Loc: Pttsbg SWestern Pa USA N-Amer....
Oh!, in Survivi-Prep, as well as in Life, -You've Gotta Watch Out for Holes in Pockets! In Addition to Preventative Measures as Keeping Sharp / Chafing / Grating things Out of there!, -We Shud Make it a Regular Practice to Check for such Formed, Developing, or Potential Holes! Along the Same Principle of Checking your Chlothes and Etc.for Scorpions, in the Desert. Though this perhaps Need Not be as Often.

Similarly, Watch Out for Nails Sticking Into your Attic Roof!, -especially but Not Limited to Moving Around up there in the Dark! This Never Happened to me, but I Cringe Evry Time I Look at Such! From Day One, upon First Seeing such many years ago, as an older kid.

And those Grated Catch Drains along the Sidewalk / Pavement (Brit.) / Roadsides / Curbs / Kerbstones! Also the Several Inch Vertical Openings immeadiately Above such, in the Curb Face itself. Those are Big Enuf to Lose Important Things, a Lot Larger than Keys, Cards, and Coins!

Money, Coins and Change, Keys, Rings, Checks, ID, Credit and Other Cards, Mail and Important Family Photos and Other Special Sentimentalities!, -The List Goes On! -In a Loose, Careless, or Accidental Moment, -They can Go Tumbling In! Before your Very, Horrified Eyes, or even Unbeknowngst and Undetected by you! If Over or Near such a Grate, you just Happen to Be!, at such a Moment!!

This too has Never Personally Happened to me. But I Leerily Cringe somewhat!, Evry Time I Look At, or Find myself having to Walk Past One!

In my Own City, as well as Others I've been in, -I See Public Pay Phones!, -Right Over These!!! I Looked Down into one such Sidewalk Grate. (There Too!, Not Only Limited to Roadside Storm Drainage) And Sure Enuff!, I Saw Plenty of Quarters, Dimes, and Other Coins and Change!, Down There! And thats just what was within Sight! Hoo Knows How Much had been previously Washed Down into the Piping, Over the Years!

I See Homeless and Other Beggars,-Some Not so Needy or Noble, Sitting Right Atop Those with their Cups!!! I've Cautiously Advised more than a Few, to Watch Out that they Don't Ever Have an Accidental Spill!! Experience can be a Best Teacher, but What a Way to Find Out!! A Full or Mostly Full Cup of a Day's Hard 'Earned' Change!, in a Moment just Goes Tumbling In!!!!!

This is Similar to Carelessly Spilling your Only Water Supply!, in the Midst of the Desert!!!!! To so Learn That Hard Way!!! Say in the Mid-Sahara, Mid-Summer, Mid-Afternoon!, Aside one of the Driest of Dunes! Like Deep in Southernmost Algeria!, -You Suddenly Lose Most to All of your *Only* Water Supply! You Watch your Priceless Water Visibly Sinking into the Rapidly Drying Sands! Right Before your Eyes! Heartbreaking! And of Mortal Concern! Let's Hope that one Doesn't Have to Add Unavoidable Shame and Stupidity to that! Either Way, -You're *Out of* Water!, in the Midst of the Hottest, Most Isolated, Sahara! Reading of this Possibility or Prospect, Has been one of my Greatest of Survival Inspirations! / Pearls of Wisdom!

Coins and Other Important Things into a Catch Grate, are Like that too! So Watch for This and These!, as Well!!!

And What if you just Happen to be Walking on an Older, Substandard One?! And Go Crashing Down into One yourself! What if it is Too Deep, and Vertically Walled, to be Able to Climb Out of!? What if there is No Ladder?! What if you Get Injured or Otherwise Disabled in the Process?! I Think it would be a Good Idea and Practice, to Try to Avoid Walking Directly On and Over these!, where all possible. Though the Great Majority of these, of course are Not readily Cave-Innable.

And then there is the Wind! Be it Sudden Gusts, or of a Steady Strength. Even a Light Breeze can Do it! This can be Very Instrunmental in such Catch Basin Deposition! Of your Valuables! As well as Acting as a Great Snatcher of your Valuables as well!, even Nowhere Near a Grate or Basin! It can Rapidly Send your Important / Precious Items a Sailing Far Off from you! Either Along the Ground, or Well Off Up Into the Air!

Or into the Water! Such as Along a Shore, While Driveing over a Bridge, or in a Boat. Even without Wind, you can just Lose Something in Water like that! Try Finding your Expensive Glasses, Once they've Fallen into a Lake! As well as into it's Muck Below! Even if you could Remember the Exact Spot in which you Lost Them! Which Isn't Likely!

Or Losing Valuables to the Wind or Otherwise, Over a Precipice or Other Height!

Windsnatch Dangers are Far from Limited to just a Catch Drain and Such, of a Vicinity! (Though thats where this Little Topic Arose from)

Then there's Another Pet Caution of mine. Which Involves how Valuables and Other Things, are Always Getting Lost Behind Desks, Cabinets, Furniture, and Other such Like! Watch for That as well! From Time to Time, Also Check Behind such Locales! Missing Something Important, Precious, or Valueable?! It may be as Close!, as Right Behind your Desk!!! Down into the Sofa!, is Another! You'll Always Find some Coins and Such, Down there!

There's at least Several Other Such Important Examples!, One of which I've Temporarily Forgot. Which the similar "Holes in the Pocket!" Caution, Brings to Mind.

In Both your Survival-Prep Life, as Well as in Life Overall, -Keep Mindful and Watchful of Them!

[color:"black"] [/color] [email]dave750gixer[/email]

Edited by ScottRezaLogan (03/18/04 12:15 AM)
"No Substitute for Victory!"and"You Can't be a Beacon if your Light Don't Shine!"-Gen. Douglass MacArthur and Donna Fargo.

#11764 - 03/18/04 12:26 AM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...
ScottRezaLogan Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 723
Loc: Pttsbg SWestern Pa USA N-Amer....
Same with the Ramen Soup Flavoring Packets that survivalperson has Spoken of, back under "Salt Packets" (I Forget at the Moment, which of our Two Main Forums that was on) [color:"black"] [/color] [email]wildcard163[/email]
"No Substitute for Victory!"and"You Can't be a Beacon if your Light Don't Shine!"-Gen. Douglass MacArthur and Donna Fargo.

#11765 - 03/18/04 04:15 PM Re: Thinking outside the box, again...

A spring-loaded center punch is the proper tool for breaking tempered glass windows - works great, without effort or danger to the hands and doesn't weigh much more than a decent ball point pen. If that doesn't work for you then consider the res-q-me tool, which will fit on your key-ring and be even lighter than your nails but still break car windows just fine.

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