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#110690 - 10/30/07 12:47 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: OldBaldGuy]
raydarkhorse Offline

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...
You have to take into account the type of mentality the people who write these types of articles. They are the same people you see hiking in spandex shorts, a skintight tank top and a lightweight shoes. They don’t carry a fixed blade knife because they can see no conceivable situation where they could need one, most of them I have talked to wouldn’t even carry a SAK. They are like the group I passed coming down the mountain as they were going up. I was there for a day hunt and was leaving because of the nasty thunderstorm coming down the valley. I even told them (dressed like mentioned above). I was told thunderstorms didn’t pose a threat in the mountains at that time of the year. They were so sure of them self’s they wouldn’t even set up camp. Twenty minutes later dry in my truck I was wondering how they were doing and how metal-framed packs seemed a bad thing with all the lightning. They did seem less arrogant when I drove to where I had last seen them and found them huddled together. Some of them even said thank you for the ride to their vehicles below.
Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

#110698 - 10/30/07 02:18 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: raydarkhorse]

I carry purification tablets, an MSR MIOX pen, and a filtration straw pretty much all the time...and all that even with a couple of spare batteries and some extra salt for the MIOX pen still weighs less and take up less room than the average filter.

#110699 - 10/30/07 02:48 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: cedfire]
cedfire Offline

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
I didn't realize they had advocated not carrying a first aid kit at one point and suggested mooching one off others. That's nuts.

I think I'll start putting my $4 a month towards other stuff. (Thankfully I don't have a subscription.) Saved up that can buy a big FAK!

#110702 - 10/30/07 03:17 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: cedfire]
atoz Offline

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Nevada
The I know a few of these folks and they do 30+ miles a day on the CT and PT trails. You can't do that with a 50+lb day after day.
The other thing I find is that when most of us go camping we want all the comforts of home, look at RVers, UGH. One complainto of European climbers have of American climber is that US climbes sone want to be cold so carry much heavier equipment, same for BPers.
What Ultralight BPing does is to challenge the paradim that most folks have.

#110711 - 10/30/07 04:10 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: atoz]
norad45 Offline

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I don't think anybody expects them to pack a 3 burner Coleman stove and a wall tent. And big deal if they cut their toothbrush down to a nub--that has never killed anyone. But to suggest that a razor blade is an acceptable substitute for a decent knife is stupid and irresponsible. You might get away with not carrying the essentials for your first 99 trips, but when things go bad on trip #100 it could cost you. I rarely if ever hear about an "overequipped" person getting into trouble--it always seems to be the ones who aren't carrying anything who end up dead.

#110716 - 10/30/07 04:27 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: benjammin]
Hikin_Jim Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: benjammin
As someone else who's been infected with Giardia, I second that. I do not drink raw water unless I have absolutely no other choice.

Yeah, pretty much my attitude. I kind of don't get it when people don't treat their water. What's the big pay off that you would risk girardia? My dad got hepatitis drinking untreated water (desert hike; he was desperate). If you filter, you get the same cool, delicious mountain stream taste as you would right out of the stream, so like I say, what's the payoff?

There are other things to keep in mind also though. There have been studies indicating that hygiene is every bit as if not more important than water treatment. The studies tested the water where girardia cases had been reported. Much of the time, the water contained no pathogens. Subject interviews revealed lapses in hygiene. The conclusion: wash your hands especially after potty time.

#110720 - 10/30/07 04:51 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: norad45]
Hikin_Jim Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: norad45
These guys stress over a few extra ounces?

I'd definitely agree that cutting essentials is a just plain bad idea, but I kind of get the ounce thing. Things really add up. As a preparedness kind of guy, I frequently load up packs that are tough to carry. 50lbs of gear for a 3 day hike probably isn't reasonable. I've had to eliminate some redundancy, carry a little bit less clothing than I'd like etc. just to make it work. There's got to be some kind of balance between preparedness and practicality. Not saying I know what that balance is, but I definitely understand cutting ounces.

For example, I bought some new gear this past summer:
Sleeping bag: 12 oz lighter than old one
Pad: 8 oz lighter
Raingear: 9 oz lighter
Pack: 15 oz lighter
Stove: 10 oz lighter
Headlamp: 3 oz lighter
Tent: 24 oz lighter
New Jacket: 9 oz lighter

Which amounts to about 5 and a half pounds of savings. Going from a 35 pound pack to a 29.5 pound pack makes a huge difference.

Originally Posted By: norad45
Sounds to me like they need to invest in a stair-stepper.

Not to get on your case smile but a lot of the ultra lighters I've met on the trail are in incredible shape. In the case of "through hikers" (those doing a major trail like the PCT, CDT, or AT from start to finish in one hike), they're doing back-to-back 20 mile days for weeks on end. They really do have to strip it down. (having said that, no I have not drilled holes in my toothbrush and exchanged my knife for a razor blade) smile

#110722 - 10/30/07 05:00 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: Hikin_Jim]
paramedicpete Offline

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
While no one can debate the benefits of good hygiene, bacteria, viruses and parasites have to come from somewhere. Individuals infected with Giardia sp. are picking it up from somewhere; most likely source is the water.

It is possible a partner is infected and passing the Giardia sp. along to others due to poor hygiene via fecal contamination - oral route of exposure. However, I would think the water is still the most likely culprit, despite the test results, which may not be sensitive enough to detect low-level contamination.

Can you find and cite the studies?


#110724 - 10/30/07 05:18 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: paramedicpete]
frediver Offline

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 213
Loc: N.Cal.
Did anyone catch the advice to store your water filter element in the freezer, if you do it will likely crack when frozen rendering it useless.

#110728 - 10/30/07 05:38 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: paramedicpete]
Hikin_Jim Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Can you find and cite the studies?

Well, having limited time (and even more limited memory), smile here's one study (but not the one I was referring to earlier): Wilderness Medical Society Study

Please note that I am not advocating the abandonment of water purification! I am attempting to high light the importance of hygiene.

If I can, I'll try to find the study that I was referring to.
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