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#109417 - 10/21/07 09:59 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Paul810]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: Paul810
I'd rather have the new diesel Audi A4 coming out in a few years.

3.0L Diesel
240hp
406ft-lb tq
40mpg highway
50 state emissions compliant

Plenty of power and great gas mileage. Though, being an Audi the price will be a bit high.




I think thats when Toyota is going to finally bring their diesel Hilux (Tacoma) into the US, and hopefully Honda will be bringing over thier diesel line as well. Its about time.

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#109425 - 10/21/07 11:37 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: picard120]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'd buy one if I did a lot of driving, but I only filled my gas tank about 8 times in the last 12 months. So, sending my perfectly good car, which still gets great gas mileage after 10 years, to an early grave would probably be a bigger burden on the environment than buying a more efficient car seeing as how I don't drive a lot.
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#109428 - 10/22/07 12:12 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Fallshirmjager]
Matt26 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
Quote:
If you get in a wreck, rescue personnel can't use the jaws of life, because the power cable amperage will kill the rescuer if cut through, and the manufacturers so far refuse to install a master disconnect for emergencies.


Wrong info, Each car is slightly different, but for the most part the main power cable is a bright color to point out that it is not a "normal" cable. Also they tend to run under the car.
Having been a volunteer firefighter for the last 18 years in a dept that does a lot of car accidents I can tell you that there is no substitute for constant training and reading up on new tech like this. In that spirit I post the following link http://www.sceneoftheaccident.com/wst_page16.html This is a list of emergency manuals available to first responders.


Edited by Matt26 (10/22/07 12:22 AM)
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#109432 - 10/22/07 01:25 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: picard120]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I've driven one a little- I've two friends who own Priuses (Priui?). Little odd, I hate that all the data is on the center screen rather than on a proper dashboard (left eye dominant, have to actually think when I look down there). But nimble, great handling.

As for how they go in winter... It is front wheel drive and nose heavy. With good snow tires, so long as they don't hang up, they can muscle through snow if you are a decent driver. And if you find black ice, they will eat up guard rails like a pothead with a pack Oreos. smile The worst injury was a bloody nose from being popped by the air bag.

In mud, however, they can bog down a little if you aren't careful. But again, if you really know how to drive, it won't be much more of a problem than any other car.

Search the archives, we've talked about them from a safety perspective. But I might hold off a year or two- there are some new models that are supposed to go to market next summer with powerpacks that are being touted as better than the Toyota system. And honestly, if you are mostly doing highway driving rather than city driving, something like a conventionally powered Civic will still do you just as well on milage for a less money.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#109434 - 10/22/07 01:30 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Matt26]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
What I want is the regenerative braking stuff in a standard 4-cylinder, 5-speed, reasonably efficient gas/diesel car.

My miles are 90% highway, so the hybrid route is actually less efficient (adds extra weight). But: if I could charge a modest battery pack from braking, and use it later at home to power/charge all my electronic stuff, that would truly be efficient.

I'm trying to think of ways to add this "after-market" to my fine little Mazda -- but it always ends up looking like a "Mad Max" rod, I'm afraid.


Edited by dougwalkabout (10/22/07 01:34 AM)

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#109442 - 10/22/07 02:12 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Fallshirmjager]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Uhm... Yeah, most of that is wrong.

In highway (keep in mind, this is Vermont- rolling hills and small mountains are all we have that isn't water or swamp), the Priuses I've known get about 40-45mpg, while in urban driving they get about 50-52. Sure, that's a little under the 54mpg optimum that is listed for urban driving, but by less than 10%- you can loose more than that just not knowing how to drive very well. Strike one.

The batteries are closer to 60% recyclable, with that percentage rising anually. The batteries you are thinking of haven't been used in a while, and never on widely marketed production model. Strike two.

There is a master disconnect. I will state for a fact the the one on the Prius kills main power if the air bag deploys. Strike three, you're out!

And I'd like to see your data sheet, re ozone, and references to the original research. Because without it, I'm going to call BS.

As for the golf cart... Yes, that works if you live in a gated, selective community full of the very rich or the retired. For those who live and work in the real world, golf carts would have to improve to suck.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#109444 - 10/22/07 02:15 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: LED]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
The hard part is going to be getting them into the country. The emissions requirements are based on the garbage diesel blends we used 20 years ago. If the pencil pushers will update the regs to reflect modern fuels, we'll get them. If not... yeah, there is a lot of very nice diesel toys we can't get in the US.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#109471 - 10/22/07 01:44 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Fallshirmjager]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
I would buy and drive a hybrid, but right now they're too expensive for me. I do think they're a step in the right direction, though.

I'm sorry, my friend, but I find it hard to believe the facts in your fact finding.

Quote:
Truthfully, a hybrid gets much worse mileage than claimed. On rolling hills, often less then 50% of claimed mileage.

Where's the data on this one coming from? And...in rolling hills, what vehicle (other than aircraft smile ) doesn't suffer in mileage?

Quote:
The batteries are extremely toxic, and less than 40% recyclable.

Maybe, but even more toxic than a tanker fuel of petroleum spilled along the roadway? How far can we get away from this "toxic" stuff before we realize it's ALL toxic?

Quote:
The cost differential leaves you needing to drive it for 33 years to break even.

This is a new one on me. The last I read the break-even period was 7 to 10 years. Don;t hold me to that, I'm relying on an aging mind for memory here.

Quote:
If you get in a wreck, rescue personnel can't use the jaws of life, because the power cable amperage will kill the rescuer if cut through, and the manufacturers so far refuse to install a master disconnect for emergencies.

Where is this extremely high-voltage power cable routed.... through every door and pillar of the car? It'd be more accurate if you "theorized" that they "might not be able to use the jaws of life if the area needing to be cut was the area where this "high voltage" cable was routed in most cars....like maybe one in a thousand cases (purely theoretical, of course)". Additionally, in an accident where the motor is not running and rescuers are working on the car, at that moment, how much voltage is coming from those DC cells and capacitors????? I'm curious here...

Quote:
I can't find the data sheet right now, but the typical hybrid produces over 200 times more ozone than the average car.
That ozone destroys rubber components on the vehicle at an accelerated rate, as well as the environment.

That sounds like pure BS...if you don;t mind my saying. A little logic and reasoning might go far here (or, I could be wrong...I was once, you know, 1972 I think). We need algore's input here on the environmental portion of that statement.

Quote:
If you want a vehicle built to appeal to hysterical emotionalism, bad ride, poor performance, overpriced, sloppy assembly, and worse for the planet, and logic be damned ...you really need a hybrid, so you can feel all smug and superior.

...hmm pure emotion coupled with no facts = pure emotion

I like those hybrids. As more are made and sold, they'll become more affordable and I'd love to have one. We have somewhat of a fuel crisis in the world. Since we are "prohibited" from drilling and research in certain areas of America, we find ourselves at the mercy of others for fossilized fuels. Anything we can do to make energy "cleaner", more available, and more affordable is good in my book.


Edited by Stretch (10/22/07 01:55 PM)
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DON'T BE SCARED
-Stretch

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#109482 - 10/22/07 02:18 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Stretch]
OutdoorDad Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 76
A farmer I know runs all his vehicles (including tractors) on bio-diesel without having to change any of his regular maint. Every season he changes all the filters anyway and says that he doesn't notice any difference in performance one way ot the other.

I am really interested in find out more about converting a car to run on Brown's gas.

The main reason I don't like "hybrid cars" is the attitude of the owners (or at least all those I have met/work with).


Edited by OutdoorDad (10/22/07 02:20 PM)
_________________________
If people concentrated on the really important things in life... there'd be a shortage of kid's fishing poles.

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#109496 - 10/22/07 03:18 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: LED]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: LED
Originally Posted By: Paul810
I'd rather have the new diesel Audi A4 coming out in a few years.

3.0L Diesel
240hp
406ft-lb tq
40mpg highway
50 state emissions compliant

Plenty of power and great gas mileage. Though, being an Audi the price will be a bit high.




I think thats when Toyota is going to finally bring their diesel Hilux (Tacoma) into the US, and hopefully Honda will be bringing over thier diesel line as well. Its about time.


From what I read Toyota is not bringing any diesels over, instead focusing on hybrids only. Honda and Nissan however are planning on bringing over diesels in their cars (Accord and Maxima).

The European and American companies will however be investing a lot into diesel technology. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Jeep are all working on (or have already released) diesel vehicles and GM/Ford/Dodge all have diesels coming out for their 1/2 ton trucks and possibly SUVs. The Hummer H2 is actually getting a 4.5L diesel and a six speed manual transmission towards the end of next year.

If they put that engine and trans in the H3 (which is possible, it does fit) I would buy one in a heartbeat, especially after I convert it to a solid front axel with a lift to take it off roading. grin

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