Hello fellow survivors. In the book Winter Wise, the author lists a silk neckerchief in his clothing section. I remember when I was in the Cubs we used to wear them (but I forgot how to roll and tie them). I've read that the cadets and sailors also wear them traditionally. What are all the uses of a neckerchief, especially from a winter survival point of view and from a sailor's tradition and historical point of view? And why silk (which is a bit expensive but feels luxurious) and not another cheaper fabric?

I know the neckerchief used in the Scouts is big enough to serve as a first aid triangular bandage but can you come up with particular usages? And is there a difference in size between a bandanna and a neckerchief?

And where can I find good quality silk neckerchieves?

Thanks
Frankie

I'll let the experts comment on uses.

Head for a sewing supplies store and buy yourself a couple yards of silk, and sew up the edges. You can make 'em any size and color you want!

Thanks for the common sense type of idea which I will consider. But why silk? What are the virtues of silk in winter (other than the wicking underwear layer?

Thanks

My wife has a set of silk long johns, she says that, in addition to keeping her VERY warm in cold weather, they feel great against her skin. My common sense and logic wants to tell me that silk is too thin to do much heating, but I guess I am wrong about that...

OBG your wife is right! Years ago I had a pair of silk long john bottoms, and they were fantastic! About the same price as a pair of really good polypro. What I liked most was the warmth without the bulk. I highly recomend them.

"...OBG your wife is right!..."

Don't tell her that, I will never hear the end of it!!!

(actually, she is right about 99% of the time, but don't tell her that either)...

Why Silk:
First it is the strongest natural fiber available. Yes spider silk is stronger but you can't acquire enough cloth.
Second is that it has a very high insulative value. Yes even higher than wool on a per weight basis. It also has very good wicking properties.

Also while keeping you warm as a base layer. When used as the outer or single layer it is cool in summer.

Since it is very light weight the scarf or bandana can be much larger for the same weight and packed space it will take up.

http://www.texti.net/intersoie/uses.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?Properties-and-Characteristics-of-Silk&id=488797
http://www.towson.edu/campusrec/AP%20forms/pm%20layering.pdf

Silk is strong when dry (they used to make parachutes out of it), quite a bit weaker when wet.

Dries much more quickly than cotton or wool, won't make you sweat like polyester (plastic fibers), it's more insulative than you would think, very light, packs small.

If you could find one about 45x45", you might be able to use it as a shemagh if it wasn't too slippery (How to Tie a Shemagh: http://www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/shemagh.html ) to keep duststorm dust, building collapse dust and volcanic eruption ash out of your face.

Two or three layers of silk are great for air travel in varying temps, PLUS it won't melt to your skin if something fiery happens.

Classy garrotes.

Dharma Trading sells a lot of silk scarves and clothing at very reasonable prices. The catch is that it's all white, as they're artists blanks: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3302-AA.shtml?lnav=clothing.html And if you want silk fabrics, http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1665272-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_silk.html

Habotai is probably what you would want, it comes in several weights. If you've got a high-maintenance woman around, she'll probably be perfectly happy to advise you. I see a lot of guys in fabric shops these days, so don't feel funny. Buy a yard of something in camo if it makes you feel better, and the clerk will just nod and ask how much you want.

But if you want camo silk fabric, you may be limited to snydercreek.com.

Sue

I have understood from this thread that silk will keep you warm, but I've always thought of silk as a delicate material, how does it keep up with the rough and tough of everyday.

The only experience of silk I have with is with silk ties, pick up a stain, coffee or whatever and bye-bye tie. Someone once said take it to the dry cleaners, only round here it's 7 euro's ($10) to clean a tie???? So I try to avoid silk ties for that reason. So what's the maintenance on a silk neckscarf/bandana?

How big is a scout scarf?

My Wife is usually right also, Problem is she knows!

Here is a list of uses that is given to the Boy Scouts some will be of use some wont as they are troop specific. The web site gives details for each use. It also gives the size as 28’x32’, the one I wore in the navy was much larger but I don’t remember exactly what size it was.
http://pinetreeweb.com/neckerchief.htm
Summary of Uses for the Scout Neckerchief
The Scout Neckerchief may be used:
1. As an International Morse signal flag.
2. For sending messages by Semaphore code.
3. In knot-tying practice.
4. For Troop and Patrol identification.
5. As a reminder of the Scout Good Turn, (single knot).
6. As indication that wearer is not a Cadet, but a Scout.
7. As a substitute for a belt.
8. As a shoulder mat.
9. As a smoke mask.
10. As a blindfold for Scout games.
11. As a dressing for a burned face and neck.
12. As a sweatband for confining the hair.
13. For identifying contesting teams.
14. As a swatter in playing games.
15. In the three-legged race, to tie legs together.
16. In games requiring contestants to be hobbled.
17. In game called "Badger Pulling," to make binder for heads.
18. As a nightcap or ear protector.
19. As a muffler for storm or blizzard.
20. As a cover for a pail of water.
21. As a loincloth or bathing trunks.
22. As a triangular cap bandage.
23. As a napkin.
24. As an apron.
25. As a table clothe.
26. As a dust clothe or cover.
27. As a "Hobo" bag.
28. For a tumpline to carry a load.
29. To lash poles or staves together.
30. As a smoke signal.
31. As a red flag on projecting end of load.
32. As a patch for a canoe, when properly treated.
33. As caulking for a leaky boat, when properly treated.
34. For distress signal, lighted for a "flare."
35. As a pad for the head in carrying heavy loads and wherever needed to prevent chafing.
36. As a padded glove for the hand, to prevent blisters.
36a. As a blindfold for rescuing a horse from fire.
37. To pad portions of harness to prevent chafing.
38. To tie up square packages.
39. For fastening ends of the blanket roll.
40. For making lifeline or guard rope.
41. For making rope ladder.
42. For making boat sail.
43 For making emergency clothing

Cowboys and WW I fighter pilots wore them to keep their wool shirts or shearling lined jackets from rubbing their necks raw.

In my younger days I had a job driving a tractor in the winter. I had an Army surplus wool overcoat that was great for staying warm, but it would eat my neck up when I would turn my head. Solution was to wear a bandana.

Silk is excellent. It is very warm for the weight (but expensive).

I have some 34" X 34" cotton bandanas that I use similar to these:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=217660
These are larger than a regular hankerchef or bandana.

I have one in my day pack or pocket whenever I am outdoors. In cold weather they help keep your neck warm and keep the wind from blowing down your shirt. In hot weather they serve as a hand towel, sweat rag or just rag. If you don't have a hat, they can be used as do-rag fashion or as a sweat band.

Any good Western supply store will carry silk neckerchiefs. These are usually 36 inches square or sometimes even bigger. They are really excellent light scarfs for your neck, potholders, slings, sweat dobbers, improvised hats, pressure bandages....you name it. I always have one in my vest pocket.

There is a website that has been linked here a number of times for a huge selection of colors and sizes. I cannot recall it right now though.

Winter Wise is a pretty good book.

Sierra Trading Post has a silk bandana 35"X35" for $12.95

Terramar Silk Bandana

Pete

Instructions on how to handsew a pocketsquare are available @ www.samhober.com The proper way to wear a bandanna, aka Wild Rag as now marketed or, as my cowboy mentor most eloquently put it 'your snot-rag' is NOT loosely slung around your neck like some Versace scarve in a Palm Beach Florida PRIDE PARADE-Charlie Russell paintings regardless. Thats a good way to get snagged on drinking fountain nozzles or have a fun loving horse garrot you from behind. Take your- hankie, and fold once into a triangle. Rolling from the fold out to the two points tightly will create tie strings. Now place the folded triangle on the front of your neck, pass the material once around the back and tie off again in front with a square knot. Tuck the the thing inside your collar. If it is warm merely do it up looser.If it gets real warm, roll tightly into a tube, tie again in a square knot and wear as a loose tie, again tucked inside the shirt and optionaly soaked in cold water for relief. Silk is very durable but will wear with time like everything else. Hand wash with a mild detergent in cold water and give a light pressing. Forget the Shemagh sillyness. This is for Les Anglais who think T.E. Lawrence looked good. Get yourself a proper Voyaguer's red knit Toque.

Is that Les Anglais with gesture, or without?

& T.E Lawrence AKA Lawrence of Arabia knew what he was about.

I am a boy scout and my neckerchief is a isosceles triangle measuring

27" on 2 sides and 38" on the other side. I also have a bandanna that has first aid information on it. You can see it here .

-JAce

Thanks a lot mes amis les anglais. I was not expecting so many replies. The Terramar silk bandanas from Sierra Trading Post look like a good deal, silk, 35" × 35", I think this is it.

Frankie

http://www.jinglebobs.com/products.htm

I've been thinking about ordering a silk bandana from this site for a long time. I got some cotton bandanas from them a few years ago and they were good quality, but that's all I know about the company.

long ago we had to fold they in half to get the triangle

Silk isn't delicate. Other than spiderweb, you'd be hard pressed to find a material stronger at a given diameter prior to the development of synthetics. Some of the fabrics made from those fibers are delicate though, and often the trim on them is dainty. (No offense to our ladies, it is.) And it will stain.

"The only experience of silk I have with is with silk ties, pick up a stain, coffee or whatever and bye-bye tie. Someone once said take it to the dry cleaners, only round here it's 7 euro's ($10) to clean a tie???? So I try to avoid silk ties for that reason. So what's the maintenance on a silk neckscarf/bandana?"

Silk has been around for five thousand years.

Dry cleaning was invented in the mid-1800s.

Simple silk items like kerchiefs are just washed gently in a mild detergent added to cold water. Swish it around, let it soak a bit, swish it some more, rinse in cold water, then hang to dry in a shady spot. You don't want to use harsh detergents, hot water, do any wringing, hard scrubbing, or drying in sunlight. Iron at lower temperatures.

Note: The Care Labeling law only has to give ONE one method of cleaning, not ALL acceptable methods.

BTW, scarves were also used around the neck to protect the main garment from the wearer's body oil, sweat and dirt. A scarf is simpler to wash than a $500 leather jacket.

Sue

Frankie, if none of those pan out, try art supply houses. You can get white silk of good quality as the base material for silk screening.

Like these:
http://www.dickblick.com/zz630/00/
The 14x72" scarf is a little over eight bucks; a 35" square is about ten. And they have a variety of dyes- not bright orange, but the magenta should pop out from the background.

Hi, Phil !

1) when lunching, use a napkin around your neck !

2) for any grease stain, on silk or other cloth, rapidly and firstly (??) use some "terre de sommières" on the grease spot. Let it rest a bit. This very fine powder will absorb most of the grease out of the fabric, thus making washing much easier.

"terre de sommières"?

Ah, found a reference to it in a discussion board on stains:
"In France I was introduced to what they call terre de sommieres, which is a fine clay powder that is an absolute miracle for greasy stains on leather and suede. You just rub a bit of the powder into the stain, wait a few hours or overnight, and when you brush it off, the stain is gone. I've used it on suede bags, shoes, and leather coats. But I'm not sure what it would be called in the US -- if it exists here at all."

Sue

Terre de sommieres is avaialble in the USA. I'll dig up my resource and post later. Of course T.E. Lawrence knew what he was about. The man was irish, or anglo- irish in the biographies. He was just a little to theatrical in that outfit. Now Sir Richard Burton would sit all day in mufti being kicked by his brother officers to practise his skills.

silk maps I did a quick search and found this.

bandanas
these are printed with useful info so I included them anyway.

I just ordered a couple of the silk bandanas from jinglebobs. From the website and photos they look good. I couldn't pass up that bright orange one. Let you know about the quality when I get them sometime next week.

It looks like "terre de Sommières" ( literal translation = "earth from Sommières", Sommières being a town, in south of France) is another name for Montmorillonite


Hope it helps....

That would be great to hear some feedback. Pictures would be even better

Yup, the main thing that dry cleaning is meant to preserve is the color/dye of the silk ... also, the texture of the silk after hand-washing may be a little harsher than after dry-cleaning. Ironing usually softens the texture again -- but once the dye bleeds, it's really not fixable.

I've bought from JingleBobs a few times. As it happens, I am about to do so again. As a company they are kinda dull - I order stuff from their website and it turns up in the UK a few days later. Nothing more to report. They send bandannas in a package small enough to fit through a letterbox, so I don't need to be home to take delivery, which is good.

Their product is good quality. I found their red silk to be quite dark and prefer their orange if you want it for signalling.

The 35" square are a good size. The diagonal is about 57". That is long enough to go around any part of my body, so it can serve as a belt or to bind wounds in first aid etc. It is big enough to make a sling for an arm.

The 20" ones for me are borderline too small. The diagonal is about 30", which is big enough to go around my head, but if I try wear it in traditional bandanna style the pointed bit doesn't really reach far enough to catch under the diagonal ties. I wish it was an inch or two bigger. However, it's fine for a head-band and many other uses.

They also do 42" square ones, which I found too big to be practical.

I prefer silk to cotton because it is lighter and thinner. A 35" silk is roughly the same weight and volume as a 21" cotton. It will adsorb about the same volume of water. However, having larger surface area it has more uses, and it dries quicker. Cotton is thicker, which is sometimes useful but you can double-up the silk. I don't see any point in carrying 21" cotton if silk is available.

20" silk is worth carrying mainly because it is thin and light enough to go in places that 21" cotton and 35" silk won't. Specifically, it will go in shirt breast pocket without being noticed. It's a great way to increase your every-day carry resources.

Uses include the following:

• A covering for the head to protect from sun-burn. Also as a sweat-band. Also to cover the back of the neck. Wet it to to cool by evaporation.
• In first aid, to clean up blood. Also as a bandage to secure dressings, or to apply pressure to wounds. Also as an arm-sling; to improvise splints; as a tourniquet (if you know what you are doing).
• As cordage: eg as a belt, to tie a car boot down, as a dog lead, or just about anything where 57" of parachord would be useful. If you cut it into 1" strips you get over 1000 inches of cord, that could be useful eg for building shelters.
• As a handkerchief to blow your nose on. Also as toilet paper (if you cut it up, 35x35" is roughly 49 5x5" squares).
• As a bag or sack. You can make a wide-mouth bag just by tying knots in the corners, which can be useful for preventing screws from getting lost; collecting nuts or berries etc. You can make a narrow-mouth bag by tying the corners together - it's worth looking up how to do that properly. You can use the bag to carry other supplies, collected food etc. Also as a crude glove, for warmth or protection.
• As a shield to protect from dust or dirt, eg to sit on. Also tie around the mouth as a crude dust-mask (may work better when wet). As a duster or "oily rag" to clean machinery, a car windscreen etc.
• As a towel for drying things. Also as a sponge to help get drinkable water from slow seeps, fine spray etc. As a funnel to help collect rain-water. (I suspect you could use it to collect water via condensation.)
• Use it to filter gross organic matter out of wild water as the first step in purifying.
• As a flag for signalling. Cut into small pieces, use for marking your trail. Cut into strips to form arrows and signs. Make it easy for rescuers to find your spot even if you are asleep when they pass.
• As clothing. You can form a loin cloth or bra, or a nappy. 35" is a bit small for a skirt, unless you are very slender, but it works as an apron.
• As a blindfold or gag. To bind wrists or ankles - it's prettier and less painful than cord. (It's surprising the sites you can find when you use google.)

I've probably forgotten whole categories but that should give an idea of their versatility. Some of the uses are destructive, so it can be beneficial to have two or more. Safety pins are often useful when working with cloth.

Try an Army-Navy Surplus store. They might have the sailor neckerchiefs.

As promised, a quick note on my newly received jinglebobs.com silk (35'X 35') scarves. Good quality, color, and perfect size. I really love the sage green but highly recommend the orange too. The vibrant color makes it a great attention getter if needed. Definitely worth it.

Thanks for the feedback LED.

Silk might do a little to keep warm but its really not that great in comparison to a scarf or stole made of authentic kashmir pashmina. This material has the best natural insulating properties found on earth and comes only from the capra hircus mountain goat that lives in brutal conditions 14,000 feet above sea level in the Himalayan mountains. Its really expensive however. If money is no object and we are talking survival, i think this would be the best material. Another good thing about it is that it is so fine woman often scrunch them up and put them in there purse, so they take up very little space. Many people sell scarves and call it pashmina although it is really not. You have to be sure its authentic capra hircus pashmina and check the percentage of the content. Its sold in different plys (thickness) although its not really important because you would be wrapping it a few times around your neck anyway. Here is an article link i wrote for anybody interested. Capra Hircus Pashmina
Anyway, there are more articles that get into this materials properties in greater depth and how it relates to moisture but i don't have those links. I sell 100% capra hircus items on a custom ordered basis only on this website 100% pure capra hircus pashmina wraps. They are available in 80% pure as well, although i don't have them listed. 80% is also cheaper. Like i said, its much better than silk but very expensive stuff. I would only recommend it if you were going on some sort of live threatening adventure in extremely cold climates. Just thought this information might be useful to somebody.

Michael-d,

Welcome to the fire, newguy! Those wraps sound great, luckily we don't often need anything that warm here or else my wife would be wanting one (she reads this forum also).

-Blast

I love either a bandana (oversize) or a silk neckerchief for winter wear - like a scarf, but more useful

Yeah, welcome michael. Thanks for the link, interesting info. However, (I could be wrong) but I thought Vicuna hair was the most insulating animal fiber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicu%C3%B1a

Yipes! The prices are pretty serious on kashmir pashmina, but the ones on the Vicuna are outrageous. 5 digit prices for a man's coat.

Good old wool is starting to look better every day!

Exactly what is the difference between a silk neckerchief and a silk scarf?

Other than the possibility that Boyscouts who wear neckerchiefs are 'in uniform' and those who wear scarfs are asked to leave.

Also check out Qiviut. Its wool from musk ox, also extremely soft, warm and expensive.

I'm sold on my Jinglebob's "wild rag"...and have shelved my neck gaiters and other similar gear. When I properly tie it
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/how-to-tie-a-scarf-cowboy-style/2227572649
It truly blocks the wind, traps warmth escaping from my shirt collar, takes up little or no space/weight, and makes me look rugged and western. Dude horses are clearly impressed.

Being a "noob" I really don't want to respond to this post. However, I feel I must, simply for posterity.

The difference between a neckerchief and a scarf, silk or not, is simple. One is inches long, one is feet long. Can you guess which one?

Although I'm new, let's all be civil. Stop the arguments. Stop the foolishness.

We all agree.

I agree 100% about the warmth of silk. My silk long underwear is one of my most prized camping items. Feels almost like it is electrically heated. It also makes blue jeans bearable in the cold (but that is for urban use; I'd avoid cotton while cold-weather camping). I may try the synthetic wicking alternative sometime but it will take a lot to get me to switch. The main downside is that I find the abrasion of walking causes little bits of silk fluff to end up around my socks at the end of the day. This seems to affect the long-johns rather than the tops, and does eventually wear the fabric thin over a few years. A relatively worn-out set of silks is currently in my winter car kit.

Steve

By The Way, all. Disregard my post. I'm getting arrogant when I shouldn't be. It's habit, and I'm sorry. If it happens again, please let me know - keep me in check.

Thanks,

Jimmy

Jimmy, I for one welcome you here and don't think it is either necessary (or our job) to "keep you in check." I will say (just so you can "re-calibrate" your expectations) that I think the responses in the thread were friendly and civil. A bit of kidding one-another is routine here, and almost always done in good taste. Welcome aboard.
By the way, I think the difference between neckerchief and scarf is in USE, not construction.
Noun 1. neckerchief - a kerchief worn around the neck.
kerchief - a square scarf that is folded into a triangle and worn over the head or about the neck. (heck, why can't I call a kerchief/neckerchief/scarf worn on my head a HAT.. if I want to!)