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#108414 - 10/11/07 10:56 PM Re: Firearm EDC Challenge [Re: CBTENGR]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
(statistics show that if you present a firearm and show weakness in using it, even in a life-threatening situation, it is more likely to be used against you)

First, the urban legend: New grads of the FBI academy are told the armorer will be at the graduation ceremony to file off the front sights of their handguns. A few new grads look at each other; finally someone asks why? Because if you're not going to use your gun, someone will take it away and shove it up your ass. And it's a lot better with the front sight filed off.

Second, the other side of that coin is presenting a firearm when there's no life-threatening situation. I've seen more COPS episodes where the cop draws a gun on some guy standing in the street, only to have the guy turn around and walk slowly away while the cop yells HALT! and holds the gun on the guy's back. He can't shoot, and he's pulled his gun. What's he going to do now?

My lesson is that drawing a gun is a mistake if you aren't being threatened and have a reason to use it upon drawing it. Am I wrong?

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#108424 - 10/12/07 02:00 AM Re: Firearm EDC Challenge [Re: philip]
gatormba Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: philip
Quote:
(statistics show that if you present a firearm and show weakness in using it, even in a life-threatening situation, it is more likely to be used against you)

First, the urban legend: New grads of the FBI academy are told the armorer will be at the graduation ceremony to file off the front sights of their handguns. A few new grads look at each other; finally someone asks why? Because if you're not going to use your gun, someone will take it away and shove it up your ass. And it's a lot better with the front sight filed off.

Second, the other side of that coin is presenting a firearm when there's no life-threatening situation. I've seen more COPS episodes where the cop draws a gun on some guy standing in the street, only to have the guy turn around and walk slowly away while the cop yells HALT! and holds the gun on the guy's back. He can't shoot, and he's pulled his gun. What's he going to do now?

My lesson is that drawing a gun is a mistake if you aren't being threatened and have a reason to use it upon drawing it. Am I wrong?


No you are not wrong, you are exactly right. LEOs can get away with drawing their gun even if it may be premature but a private citizen who draws and displays a gun without proper justification is either going to get arrested by the cops or shot by the cops.
_________________________
"It's a legal system, not a justice system!"

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#108425 - 10/12/07 02:13 AM Re: Firearm EDC Challenge [Re: djk010468]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
No, I didn;t really mean that it is irrelevant to move, rather, that your moving or not is irrelevant to the fact that you will get cut. What I was trying to get across is the same thing the school I attended was trying to teach.... a man with a knife that assaults a man with a gun is going to do some damage....if he's within a reasonable distance (that distance having been determined by the experts to be roughly 20'). That doesn;t mean I advocate standing still, I don;t, it just means that man is, much more likely than not, going to cut you......many times. If you re-read my first post, you'll see we agree that you're going to some damage to him also.

When I was talking about commands, you have to see it from a law enforcement perspective. If a man has a knife, is not charging you, you'll pay dearly if you fire on him without any more provocation than...."He had a knife". Hence the command(s). Now, if he's charging you, whether you've drawn or not is irrelevant (I like that word smile ), you're justified in any deadly force action you take.

Now, not to provoke you...that's not my intent, but I'll say again....... train all you want (as you should), the "15, 20, or 21 foot rule" isn't BS. If you don;t appreciate the "think now" comment, then at least appreciate that an attacker is moving at you....after you...where you move so will he. I'm speaking from at least some experience, however little. Additionally, I'll celebrate 23 years in federal law enforcement this Sunday. During that time, I've seen plenty of evidence of the danger of irrational persons...especially when they're armed, and even more especially when they're armed with something as lethal and controllable as a knife.

I'm not saying we can't win against the knife attack. I'm not saying we can;t walk away unscathed from a knife attack. I'm not saying training won;t help you. I'm saying simply: a man with a knife, with the desire and huevos to attack another man armed with a firearm, is a true threat at 20 feet or less (or maybe more)... a threat any reasonably well-trained person will recognize.

It ain't BS.
_________________________
DON'T BE SCARED
-Stretch

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