When it's 0º F or below, everything freezes almost instantly and frost starts building up in the clothing. How does a Gore-Tex shell perform in these conditions? Will it become brittle and will the moisture vapor freeze when it touches the membrane? In this case does simply brushing the frost off the inside of the jacket solve the problem?

And which one is better in arctic conditions, 2-ply or 3-ply?

Thanks

Hi Frankie,

I wear my Arc'teryx Theta AR 3-ply Gore-tex XCR hard shell everytime I go snowshoeing.

I've never really experienced what you describe, the outside of the jacket does not show frost or any kind of buildup whatsoever. The inside of the jacket is slightly damp (because of the heat generated by my body), but in my opinion is performs as it should. Be sure to open your pit zips if you have some (I highly recommend this feature). Keep in mind that the Gore-tex is only a shell and does not care what the temperature is, your insulating layer is what will keep you warm.

If you haven't purchased a hard shell yet, you might wish to take a look at the new Gore-tex Pro Shell, which is the successor of Gore-tex 3-ply XCR. It's supposed to be more breathable, and much lighter. Arc'teryx make some which are definately overpriced, but MEC (www.mec.ca) has some around 400 CAD$.

As for your last question, 3-ply is better in all conditions, and more expensive.

Hi Bee,

I was considering the Mountain Hardwear Exposure II Parka as a candidate. It has pit zips and a powder skirt and it's long (parka, not jacket). It's Mountain Hardwear's house laminate, Conduit instead of Gore-Tex. I haven't tried it on yet. What is your opinion about this model?

Thanks

My wife has the an Arc Teryx Alpha SV - it looks seriously overbuilt. www.verber.com and linking through to Mark's outdoor clothing page has a LOT of great information on it, including the possibility of using a vapor barrier shirt beneath the insulation. This seems to be very useful in very dry, very cold conditions by keeping a moist humid environment right next to the skin, and allows the insulation to remain dry and effective. This would also make the breathability of the outer shell a moot point. I have not tried this combination with the vapor barrier, but it makes sense.

Eric

It looks really nice, lots of good features, a tiny bit on the heavy side though. It says it has an interior pocket for Nalgene-type bottles, lol! That means you can keep your water inside your jacket... fun idea.

I've seen this jacket as low as 140 $USD over the web while searching for reviews so I would be hesitant to pay the 300 $CAD Altitude Sports want for it.

If you aren't in a hurry to make your purchase, you could wait a bit and try to see what are people's opinion on the new Gore-tex Pro Shell thing. If it's that amazing, you might be better off buying one of these for roughly 100 $ more than the Exposure II since this kind of jacket really is an investment and should give you years of reliable service. According to what i've read, Pro Shell is supposed to be the next big thing in hard-shell technology. MEC sell two Pro Shell models (well, two for men and two for women) priced around 400 $CAD.

I'll take a look at them next time I go.

Coming back to the MH Exposure II though, I think it would be a really good choice!

Hi Frankie,

Very cold conditions (0º F or below) are also very dry conditions. Goretex will not become brittle and loss is tear strength in these conditions. Expeditions in the antarctic have used Goretex tents and clothing down to -60º Celsius with additional windchills taking the temperatures even lower in 60 mph winds and the Goretex has stood up to the conditions. The Goretex membrane helps to make a excellent wind proof material. Goretex is very waterproof, but as were are talking about very cold conditions, there isn't going to be any rain. But there is a downside. Goretex is not very breathable in comparision with other windproof materials such as Ventile, Garbadine, Pertex or even Gore Windstopper. It is actually easier to be comfortable in very cold dry conditions than it is in cold wet conditions simply because you don't need a less breathable waterproof material. If you are going into very dry cold conditions and require a material which is windproof and comfortable and is more breathable than Goretex then even softshells like Gore Windstopper maybe something worth considering.

For some info on the new Gore Pro Shell (which appears to be lighter and more durable than XCR but more expensive with similar or just slightly better breathability) here at

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?SP=&v=1&UAN=4480

For some info on clothing used in Antarctic expeditions available here at

http://www.bensaunders.com/resources/expedition_kit.html

I'm a big fan of Gore-Tex; however, I've had mixed results with Gore-Tex in sub-freezing temperatures (dry & cold). It breathes, to a point, but I find the 2-ply doesn't breathe quite enough to keep me and my insulation comfortably dry. Yet, my DW uses her 2-ply all winter.

There seems to be a general consensus that 3-ply performs better in cold. This is certainly what mountain climbers prefer. With 3-ply, if you get some frost forming on the inside, you can brush or shake it off. With 2-ply, such frost would be trapped between the loose inner liner and the membrane.

The XCR 3-ply looks like fascinating stuff. Expensive, but I think that will be my next Gore-Tex.

I'm not in a hurry (especially with our current above average temperature) and in fact I may wait a little bit and see if I can get bargains on 3-ply XCR jackets as they are being replaced with Pro Shell (strangely makes me think of the computer market...)

Am_Fear_Liath_Mor, I think I will still give a try to the vintage fishtail parker (and come to think of it, a Lambretta scooter may be a nice bug-out vehicle in traffic). My rational behind this is that since the upper legs produce a lot of warm air, I'm figuring that with sized-up wool pants holded by suspenders (instead of belt) would allow for this warm air to flow to the core and that the fishtail would be lower than a powder skirt, with the same idea of allowing this warm air to flow...

Frankie

In below freezing temperatures, it sounds like a very GOOD idea...


Isn't this exactly the thing that Ventile is supposed to be perfect for?

Sure, but there are other ways to keep your water bottle from freezing, such as keeping it in an insulating bottle parka, upside down, keeping a hydration pack in your pack along with the tube in an insulating tube (this is what I use).

The idea of keeping a water bottle next to my body doesn't sound very appealing to me... especially while snowshoeing with a backpack, waist strap, etc. But for a small walk without much gear it might work.

I guess, when I think cold, I am thinking COLD...

Also, insulating the bottle will only slow the freezing, not stop it... I cannot see any practical amount of insulation stopping the water from freezing for more than a few hours... As always, YMMV.