Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#106443 - 09/20/07 04:48 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: JIM]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
So would I, but none of the lights I mentioned are Surefire.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#106445 - 09/20/07 05:18 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: Russ]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
I know. It was just a general comment, not specifically to your reply. grin
_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

Top
#106446 - 09/20/07 05:23 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: JIM]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
Cool. Surefire makes good tactical lights, but not the best for long term survival applications. Standard batteries, LED bulbs and lower power settings are needed much more than a blinding light.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#106496 - 09/21/07 12:55 AM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: Nicodemus]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
I've got the M6 in incandescent. You will like the difference. Being able to change the brightness is nice. It also has a slightly smaller form factor. I've been looking for the right light for about 10 years, especially after they started putting good LEDs in them. Surefire, Pelican, Maglights, Photons, & knock-offs of all these lost to the Fenix. Unless I find one with MSHA approval or need to put a light somewhere (dome light in the trunk of the car) I've quit looking after getting the L2D CE Fenix and a 1 AA body to go with it. If I need more than dunkable from it, I can always wrap with electrical or duct tape.

Top
#106522 - 09/21/07 07:25 AM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: UTAlumnus]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Alkaline AA vs. Lithium CR123 batteries:

For daily use Alkaline AA batteries are cheaper than Lithium CR123 and most people will be better off with AA if their Every-Day-Carry light is also their emergency light.

But I do not agree that “standard batteries” are an advantage for long term survival applications. If you can stop by the store and pick up more batteries you're not in a survival situation. Alkaline AAs are a compromise to save money, not a functional improvement.

If a separate emergency kit with a light is maintained then Lithium CR123 is a better choice. Lights using CR123 can be smaller and lighter than AA lights. But the big factor is performance: a CR123 light will still have 80% of capacity after 10 years, and a CR123 self-discharges far slower than Alkaline AA batteries in heat and retains much higher capacity in cold environments. A CR123 light will also generally be brighter than an Alkaline AA since a CR123 supplies twice the voltage and much more power than an Alkaline AA.

I recommend that any dedicated emergency flashlight use CR123 batteries in order to be sure it will work (and will not have leaked!) when needed, even if your kit is years overdue for inspection & replenishment, even if your kit is stored in an extremely hostile thermal environment such as a car.

Fenix vs. Surefire:

Fenix has a better brightness per dollar cost ratio than Surefire and Fenix does make some AA lights. But I don't think there's any real debate after handling both that Surefire is more rugged and dependable in harsh environments and under rough handling (I have and use several examples of both brands).

My philosophy is that emergency gear must take care of itself. Normally when I drop a light outdoors I pick it right up and wipe off any moisture. But if a light falls out of my pocket into a puddle during an emergency it may have to stay there a long time while I deal with other more-pressing problems ... and it had better work when I do get back to it. I'm not going to be able to spend the time and attention coddling gear that I might normally do at home even though it's much more important that nothing fails in an emergency.

Fenix makes more sense for most people to use as a daily light. But for a dedicated emergency light that might face rough/poor handling I believe Surefire is a better choice when the budget allows. And for institutions with a “Buy American” preference Fenix is Chinese and Surefire is American.

Other:

The Streamlight 4AA has MSHA approval for use in gassy (methane only) mine environments. Their “Survivor” will likely too at some point given the obvious design goals but it isn't listed yet. Pelican may also have MSHA-approved lights.

The Surefire M6 is the most powerful handheld light I know of short of a HID and is top quality. I was testing one last night against some cutting-edge Q5 Cree lights and none were close to touching it. That may change next year once the S-bin Cree LED ships: LEDs will then have the throw of an M6 and a 3-LED light will have the overall power. But right now the M6 is the king (and costs a king's ransom!).

Top
#106526 - 09/21/07 12:02 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
The Surefire M6 is the most powerful handheld light I know of short of a HID and is top quality. I was testing one last night against some cutting-edge Q5 Cree lights and none were close to touching it. That may change next year once the S-bin Cree LED ships: LEDs will then have the throw of an M6 and a 3-LED light will have the overall power. But right now the M6 is the king (and costs a king's ransom!).


I think that the Surefire M6 with the standard MN20 lamp assembly with give around 250 Lumen for around 1 hr using 6 CR123s. The replacement MN21 (not sure whether this is a Xe or HID lamp assembly) will give 500 Lumen for 20 minutes again using up 6 CR123s. The brightest Fenix is currently the P3D using a Lumileds Rebel giving 200 Lumen for 1.8 Hours using up 2 CR123s. The Fenix is 4 time more efficient is also 10 times cheaper and quarter the size and weight of the M6.

Or how about the Microfire Warrior III K3500R giving 3500 Lumen for over 50 minutes using a rechargable lithium ion cell. It is only slightly larger and heavier (12 oz) than the Surefire M6 and not that much more expensive. This will beat the Surefire M6 hands down.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/21/07 12:11 PM)

Top
#106530 - 09/21/07 12:51 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5338
Loc: SOCAL
Around here I have lights by Surefire and a dozen CR123 batteries, in a drawer, never used. The one Surefire light that isn't stored is the X-200 LED weaponlight that stays in my range bag with the Glock.

By standard batteries I mean size, not chemistry; chemistry is always improving performance. For my AA flashlights and radios I picked up a sleeve of 36 AA coppertops at Cosco to supplement my NiMH rechargeable batteries. Needs change though so I use the alkalines and save the cycles on the NiMH for when they're needed. I have a couple solar battery chargers, but why use them now in suburbia with the electricity still flowing.

The dozen or so lithium AA's I bought are still in their packaging. I bought them for extreme environments and have a set in my kits with the flashlights they'll go in. Meanwhile, those flashlights are loaded with alkalines because the temps here are not extreme.

I think the point I'm making is that standard batteries come in different chemistries with different capabilities. The NiMH are for when the supplies stop and I switch to the sun.

The three AA lights (Fenix L2D CE, UK 4xAA eLED and the Gerber Ultra Infinity) are all regulated. Small voltage differences between the different battery types is accounted for and they can all run all three types of AA batteries. The UK light loses its UL rating when loaded with lithiums, but unless the casing is cracked and I'm in a hazardous/flammable environment it doesn't matter. So what I have are lights that run on batteries readily available on a supermarket shelf.

As for Surefires being more rugged, that's probably true, however even in their LED format they have fairly short runtimes with a set of batteries because they are primarily tactical lights. If Surefire would sell an LED light that had the output flexibility of the Fenix L2D CE it would be a winner. I'd buy one and even stock more CR123's to keep it running. If you compare the light output/runtime of a Surefire L-2 ( scroll down for L-2 runtime plots) and a Fenix L2D CE, ( scroll down to L2D CE runtime plots) you'll see why the L2D CE is a great flashlight compared to even the Surefire L-2. Notice how flat the Fenix plot is? That's great voltage regulation. 22 lumens from an Ultra Infinity is plenty for many applications and it can run 25 hours on a single AA alkaline.

Bottom line is that the flashlights I find useful run on AA's.

_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#106583 - 09/21/07 08:44 PM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen

If a separate emergency kit with a light is maintained then Lithium CR123 is a better choice. Lights using CR123 can be smaller and lighter than AA lights. But the big factor is performance: a CR123 light will still have 80% of capacity after 10 years, and a CR123 self-discharges far slower than Alkaline AA batteries in heat and retains much higher capacity in cold environments. A CR123 light will also generally be brighter than an Alkaline AA since a CR123 supplies twice the voltage and much more power than an Alkaline AA.

I recommend that any dedicated emergency flashlight use CR123 batteries in order to be sure it will work (and will not have leaked!) when needed, even if your kit is years overdue for inspection & replenishment, even if your kit is stored in an extremely hostile thermal environment such as a car.


Comparing CR123's to Alkaline AA's is comparing apples to bananas. CR123's to Lithium AA's would be a much better matchup.

Top
#106625 - 09/22/07 04:10 AM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: LED]
fugitive Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 183
Loc: The Great Pacific Northwest
For enlightenment:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/


Cheers, TR

Top
#106690 - 09/23/07 02:18 AM Re: Fenix flashlights? [Re: Jeff_M]
Biscuits Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Central Colorado
Folks over on CPF rave over them. Maybe I got two duds but I bought two (one for my wife and another for me). They both went down in a couple of weeks. I sent an email to the company and was given a fix for the problem. A week later it went down again. I threw it in a box and have not touched it since.

Bisc.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
January
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
2 registered (M_a_x, KenK), 344 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NiceOldGuy, Bishop68, Tin, Knobco, manimal
5331 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Offline: Be ready
by chaosmagnet
12:43 PM
Offline Maps App Thoughts
by rafowell
06:23 AM
Hiker missing for two weeks in Zion found alive!
by dougwalkabout
03:08 AM
Increase in infrastructure attacks
by wildman800
11:34 AM
Dash Cams
by MartinFocazio
01:34 AM
Helping our ETS Community
by dougwalkabout
12:41 AM
What did you do today to prepare?
by Jeanette_Isabelle
01/17/21 08:26 PM
Our local hospital started vaccinations today!
by Nomad
01/17/21 02:52 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.