Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#105994 - 09/17/07 04:08 PM Rucksack or daypack (closing system)
Frankie Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 736
Loc: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Hi. What is the best closure system for watertightness in a simple rucksack/daypack? Is the drawstring main compartment with a "storm flap" over it of the classic rucksack better than the simpler zipper on the more civilian daypacks?

I would like to have suggestions for affordable daypacks. Do you know by any chance what is the model Michel Blomgren uses in his videos:



(Here he uses the drawstring to fasten his GI poncho to a tree to make a lean-to shelter. I guess one could replace the string with 550lb paracord)

I'm not sure about a Maxpedition bags, they are a bit too complex and tactical for my taste and not readily available in stores and not inexpensive either.

Thanks

Top
#106012 - 09/17/07 05:06 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Frankie]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Zippers break. Cordage breaks. Which one can be fixed in the field? Keeping gear dry is as much forthought as technology. My rucksak is a robust, but simple German army unit with drawcord and flap. I further secure the contents, both for protection and organization in zip bags. If it rains hard I cover the sack with my poncho and head for cover. If you are carefull, there are many surplus units worth looking at. They must be listed as NEW or EXCELLENT condition. Avoid anything less and expect leather components to be junk. Some have very heavy and uncomforatble frames.

Top
#106016 - 09/17/07 05:16 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Frankie]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
It depends on what kind of watertightness you're looking for, whether you're fully submerging the pack, or just looking to keep out rain. A lot of it is also dependent on the design and materials of the pack. Here are my experiences.

The most waterproof closure is the roll over type found on the dry bags, you just roll the top two or three time and buckle them together. There are a few packs that use this, but they're not all that convienent if you're accessing things a lot.

The top-loaders works really well in a vertical (standing) position, if it's not submerged. Usually theree's always an small opening at the drawstring, but that's usually covered by the flap. If submerged underwater though, water will pour in through there. If you get the larger bags with the extended collar, you could twist that around then fold it over and tie it off like a garbage bag, which makes it really waterproof, but access is a pain.

Zippers actually work really well too, when they're new. I've had my opsrey panel loader fully submerged underwater while swimming across a canyon pool, and the inside was almost completely dry (except for a few drops near the zipper opening). In a rain, they do pretty well, IF there's a good rain flap to cover them. Once they wear out though, water seeps through pretty easily.

Most packs aren't designed to be waterproof. Even with the best closure, water will still get in through the seams and material. A good raincover will do a lot to keep things dry though. If it's absolutely critical to keep things dry, don't depend on the pack to do it, put your items in a dry bag inside the backpack.


Top
#106020 - 09/17/07 05:30 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: ducktapeguy]
Shadow_oo00 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
I have a Camelbak BFM pack,I went on a night hike which it ended up raining cats & dogs, the contents of the pack remained dry, all the compartments on the BFM are zippered. I do have some items in dry bags just in case. Just remember I'm saying in the rain not submerged in water. Also as far as affordable packs go, Military surplus is always cheap esp through this place. http://stores.ebay.com/A-Z-Army-Navy-Military-Surplus which I have purchased from, they are 10 min from me, the link I gave is for their Ebay store, if you look at their auctions on Ebay most of the time things are a little cheaper than in the store. Also Ebay in general sometimes has good deals on packs, I just watched a like new Maxpedition FatBoy go for 43 bucks as opposed to 65 for a new one.

Shadow Out !!!


Edited by Shadow_oo00 (09/17/07 05:39 PM)
_________________________
Shadow out !!!

Prepare Or Not To Prepare That Is The Question. The Answer, You Better !!!

Top
#106027 - 09/17/07 06:27 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: ducktapeguy]
Katie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 85
The poor-man backpacker's solution to this is lining your backpack with a heavy-duty garbage bag and then twisting the top shut before closing up your bag. This will keep your clothes and sleeping bag dry unless you throw your pack in a river. I use this technique along with a standard rain cover for redundancy, and hey, you never know when you might need that trash bag for something else. Things that absolutely can't get wet (electronics, etc.) go in a separate fully watertight case. I think I'm going to move to Aloksaks for this purpose.

As an aside, I _did_ throw my day pack with no waterproofing in a river once. It was retrieved in less than 10 seconds, and surprisingly, the contents were bone-dry. My friends still won't let me live that one down. blush


Edited by Katie (09/17/07 06:28 PM)

Top
#106033 - 09/17/07 06:54 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Matt26 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
I have to echo Chris about surplus gear. For years I have used a medium alice pack and frame that I purchased from Majors Surplus. Really like the pack and never did find it all that uncomfortable. Still use it for cold weather day hikes due to extra clothing.
_________________________
If it ain't bleeding, it doesn't hurt.

Top
#106038 - 09/17/07 07:24 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Katie]
KevinB Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 91
Originally Posted By: Katie
The poor-man backpacker's solution to this is lining your backpack with a heavy-duty garbage bag and then twisting the top shut before closing up your bag.


This works extremely well. I'll second this one.

Kevin B.

Top
#106056 - 09/17/07 09:21 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Frankie Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 736
Loc: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
Zippers break. Cordage breaks. Which one can be fixed in the field?
Yes that's a good point and will keep it in mind, thanks all for the replies.

Top
#106094 - 09/18/07 02:25 AM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Matt26]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Keep in mind with military packs, at least the ALICE types, that for real waterproofness they used liner bags, thick rubberized type stuff, that you put into the pack, stuffed your goodies into, then tied closed. Without them, an ALICE is just water resistant...
_________________________
OBG

Top
#106097 - 09/18/07 02:43 AM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: OldBaldGuy]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi OBG,

What is an ALICE pack like to carry and use?

The only military pack I have carried is the Canadian '82 pattern.

Mike

Top
#106120 - 09/18/07 07:44 AM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: SwampDonkey]
simplesimon Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 133

Sacs are rapidly becoming zip closure and outside pockets are dissapearing too. If you want flap closure and pockets an alice pack might be your best bet.
Big advantage of the drawstring and flap is that you can turn a day sac into a weekend bag just by stuffing more under the flap. My work day bag has carried enough for working away for weeks this way. A zip closure can't be extended. And tying stuff to the outside doesn't work as well as you might think.
Even better if the sac has a storm flap. Tactical tailor will fit one to your alice pack for 19 dollars.
from their web site:
"The storm flap is a fifteen inch extension sewn to the inside top of your ruck. It has a draw cord closure which makes packing easier, and ensures that nothing falls out. For strength and durability, it is constructed out of 420 denier pack cloth"

If you use a bivvy bag (not sure what it's called in the US, it's a bag big enough to sleep in) you can tie off the bottom to make it the length of the sac and use it as a waterproof liner. Then you always have a bivvy bag with you, which you should have anyway.
Simon

Top
#106130 - 09/18/07 01:36 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: SwampDonkey]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...What is an ALICE pack like to carry and use?..."

As far as I, and my back, are concerned, an ALICE is one of the most uncomfortable things I have ever had to carry. Think one size fits none, super durable, therefore super heavy empty. There are worse packs around I am sure, but I know that there are better ones. The price can be right on them sometimes, that is the best I can say...
_________________________
OBG

Top
#106140 - 09/18/07 02:57 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: OldBaldGuy]
simplesimon Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 133
What are Alice packs with the frame like to carry ?
Simon

Top
#106141 - 09/18/07 03:16 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Frankie]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
I recently purchased a Zitelli bag from ebags.com. It's 20X10X6 or so and holds my BOB gear with ease. (specs on the web page are incorrect) It's MOLLE compatible, has plenty of pockets inside and out and has both chest and waist straps. It was $30. If you go to their site and search on "MOLLE" it should pop-up.

Andy

PS, here's the link:
http://www.ebags.com/zitteli/z1_molle_pack/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=87867
_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

Top
#106142 - 09/18/07 03:19 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: simplesimon]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: simplesimon
What are Alice packs with the frame like to carry ?
Simon


Horrible. I bought one at a garage sale just because I thought it looked interesting. I can't figure out why anyone would willingly carry a 30 year old backpack when there are hundreds or even thousands of backpacks on the market today which are much lighter, more comfortable, and better designed. I can't even say it's because it's cheap, because for what I see them selling for, you can get a decent backpack for about the same price. I think some people equate weight with durability, but for the weight of one of those packs, you could carry another spare pack inside your modern day pack and still come out ahead.

Top
#106153 - 09/18/07 04:52 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: ducktapeguy]
dandruff Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Singapore
the arcteryx AC2 series backpacks are completely waterproof. they are REALLY nice but rather expensive

www.arcteryx.com


Edited by dandruff (09/18/07 04:53 PM)

Top
#106156 - 09/18/07 05:08 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: dandruff]
Ors Offline
Namu (Giant Tree)
Addict

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Florida, USA
Are you talking about waterproof or weatherproof? The packs made out of Cordura 1000 are, for the most part, weatherproof. That's things like the Maxpedition packs, or Spec Ops. As I have mentioned elsewhere in these forums, I like to take a Star Trek approach...triple redundancy. Put the stuff that needs to keep dry in dry sacks, ziplocks, Lexan bottle...whatever works for you. If you're expecting a lot of water, you may want to get something with a drain hole in the bottom. FWIW, I just got a Max Pygmy Falcon II and started using it as a daypack. I really like it so far, although if you don't like the tactical look...
I got a khaki one, because I figured that was more neutral and less likely to draw attention (although one spry old woman wanted to know where I got it...thought it would be good for geocaching!). I wanted to get one in navy...even less conspicuous, but I got an awesome deal on the khaki one, so I had to get it.
_________________________
Ors, MAE, MT-BC
Memento mori
Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat (They all wound, the last kills)

Top
#106158 - 09/18/07 05:30 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: simplesimon]
Matt26 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
I used mine quite a bit. But only for long day trips. I seem to be one of the few people that like it.I found it to be comfortable. Capable of carrying pretty heavy loads. Works well with a pack shelf to carry jerry cans of water. Check a local Army Navy store and ask if you can try one out in the store. I only ever used the med size. I guess it's a subjective thing as to if you like it or not.
_________________________
If it ain't bleeding, it doesn't hurt.

Top
#106177 - 09/18/07 07:49 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: simplesimon]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
Wonderful. They must have had my back in mind when they designed it. It carries heavy loads easily, has many lash points, and is one of the most comfortable packs I've ever had on my back, including many internal frame packs. As always, YMMV, but for me, ALICE is by far the most comfortable!

Top
#106668 - 09/22/07 07:47 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: SwampDonkey]
SSgt Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey
Hi OBG,

What is an ALICE pack like to carry and use?

The only military pack I have carried is the Canadian '82 pattern.

Mike


Having humped an ALICE around for the first few years of my service, I personally find it comfortable. Some aftermarket shoulder straps and belt (Tactical Tailor or Eagle) go a long way in improving the comfort of the pack. However the price of the new straps and belt exceed the price of the pack and frame. I really like the ALICE, I still have a medium ALICE that is currently in for some improvements/modifications at Tactical Tailor. With the price of the straps, belt, frame and modifications the price of the ALICE has skyrocketed, and I know from my research there are substantially better packs out there. I stick with the ALICE because it works for me, it's simple, durable and we have a long history together.

I will say, that I'm in the minority in the Marines who liked the ALICE, honestly, most hated it. When you utilize the frame the amount of internal cargo space you can use decreases substantially, perhaps by as much as a 1/3 of the volume without the frame. The frame itself, the middle vertical support is prrone to breaking at the top crossmember, especially when you throw it off of 7 tons or from frequent drops when there are halts on the hump. This is easily fixed with a bolt and nut though. I would have to say, if I never used an ALICE before I wouldn't spend your money on one, like others said, there are better packs out there for the $$$.



Edited by SSgt (09/22/07 07:51 PM)

Top
#106669 - 09/22/07 08:02 PM Re: Rucksack or daypack (closing system) [Re: Frankie]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The simpler the "better-er" .

I like Chris' point of which one can be repaired in the field.

Regardless of which closure system one choses, I think it wise not to rely on any single thing to secure one's goodies.

Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.

I pack my goodies as if I'm going hiking in the middle of the Gulf (of Mexico) with everything stuffed in ziplock baggies stuffed inside ziplock baggies, etc...

One can rarely have too much paracord ,duct tape, and ziplock baggies.



_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
March
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 474 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes
5367 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Zippo Butane Inserts
by NAro
Today at 11:57 AM
What did you do today to prepare?
by dougwalkabout
03/27/24 11:21 PM
Question about a "Backyard Mutitool"
by Ren
03/17/24 01:00 AM
Problem in my WhatsApp configuration
by Chisel
03/09/24 01:55 PM
New Madrid Seismic Zone
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/04/24 02:44 PM
EDC Reduction
by EchoingLaugh
03/02/24 04:12 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.