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#105738 - 09/15/07 06:07 AM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: Nomad]
DougM Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 48
Why do you want such a light caliber?
A rifle chambered in .270 Winchester or .30-06 is would be a FAR better choice for hunting deer size prey as well as for self-defense (the only thing a 7x39 would do to a bear would be to make it EXTREMELY angry).
(p.s.the rifle caliber of choice for brown bear in coastal Alaska is the .375 Winchester)

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#105748 - 09/15/07 12:07 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: billym]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Originally Posted By: billym
MDianna,
You need to look into California gun laws a little more deeply. I live here and I know for sure the deal. Check out www.calguns.net if you want to know the truth.

ALL Saigas are not illegal in CA just like all AK's or all ARs. I couldn't tell who made the one in the link. But it has to be listed on the Robert-Rossi list or have a combination of banned features. There are workarounds that are completely legal.
Some Saigas are made by RRA and are not listed. This also goes for many other AK and AR variants. If they are not listed you must have them configured with either a fixed mag (there are kits) or a detachable set up with no banned features like; pistol grips of any kind, folding stocks and flash suppressors.
I have a CA legal AR-15 that I built and have no issues taking to the range or outdoors.
I have been to gun shows in SF where complete ARs and AKs are for sale (usually witout any banned features); so all are not illegal.

Here is a link to the truth; http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Here in Kali citizens know the law better than the state.


You say so. I grew up in Cali too, and I've never seen a Saiga at a firearms shop (gun show, yes)

Yes, if it's a rifle that's been registered before 2001, it's fine to have an AK or AR or a Saiga. You sure you're not looking at the pump-action AKs that are sometimes paraded around?

Taken directly from the state's website, page 58, Saiga is specifically mentioned:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Your first link also has them listed (Attatchment 5).

Could you modify it? Probably... but for a stock rifle, I'm pretty sure they're not allowed (plus lots of online dealers won't ship to Kali)

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#105750 - 09/15/07 12:54 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Nomad Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 462
Loc: Just wandering around.
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Interesting weapon. My only worry would be that, at least in my experience, the AK system is not well known for it accuracy. Reliability yes, accuracy, no...


Mine came with a certification that said it was tested at 100m with a 4 shot group of less than 96mm (about 3.5"). Not a tack driver but accurate enough for short range hunting.

Guess California does ban them. Oh well....
_________________________
...........From Nomad.........Been "on the road" since '97

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#105752 - 09/15/07 01:09 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: DougM]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi Doug,

I agree with you that a larger caliber than a .223 would be a more effective hunting round (I think it was stated early in this post that the Saiga was available in larger calibers though). I think many people prefer the .223 because of the availability of ammo if TSHTF.

"(p.s.the rifle caliber of choice for brown bear in coastal Alaska is the .375 Winchester)"

Concerning the .375 Winchester as being the caliber of choice for brown bears I think you are confusing the .375's.

The .375 Winchester is a straight-walled round developed by Winchester in 1978 for use in their strengthened Model 94 lever action rifle. It fires a 220gr. flat nosed bullet at app. 2200fps making it a good round for deer and black bear at close range. I would much rather have one of these than a pointy stick if charged by a brown bear but it would not be my caliber of choice.

I think the .375 you were referencing is the .375 H&H Magnum developed in 1912 and is often referred to a minimum all-around world caliber. It launches a 300gr. bullet at 2600fps and is a highly recommended caliber for coastal brown bears.

Mike

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#105756 - 09/15/07 02:52 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: Nomad]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...Not a tack driver but accurate enough for short range hunting..."

True, that is about as well as my "poor mans assault rifle" (Enfield Model 5 Jungle Carbine) will do...
_________________________
OBG

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#105759 - 09/15/07 03:24 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: MDinana]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: billym
MDianna,
You need to look into California gun laws a little more deeply. I live here and I know for sure the deal. Check out www.calguns.net if you want to know the truth.

ALL Saigas are not illegal in CA just like all AK's or all ARs. I couldn't tell who made the one in the link. But it has to be listed on the Robert-Rossi list or have a combination of banned features. There are workarounds that are completely legal.
Some Saigas are made by RRA and are not listed. This also goes for many other AK and AR variants. If they are not listed you must have them configured with either a fixed mag (there are kits) or a detachable set up with no banned features like; pistol grips of any kind, folding stocks and flash suppressors.
I have a CA legal AR-15 that I built and have no issues taking to the range or outdoors.
I have been to gun shows in SF where complete ARs and AKs are for sale (usually witout any banned features); so all are not illegal.

Here is a link to the truth; http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Here in Kali citizens know the law better than the state.


You say so. I grew up in Cali too, and I've never seen a Saiga at a firearms shop (gun show, yes)

Yes, if it's a rifle that's been registered before 2001, it's fine to have an AK or AR or a Saiga. You sure you're not looking at the pump-action AKs that are sometimes paraded around?

Taken directly from the state's website, page 58, Saiga is specifically mentioned:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Your first link also has them listed (Attatchment 5).

Could you modify it? Probably... but for a stock rifle, I'm pretty sure they're not allowed (plus lots of online dealers won't ship to Kali)


Yes some Saigas were listed but a later court decision (Harrott)
ruled that a make and model must be listed so when a new nonlisted maker comes on the market the state needs to add them to the list.
In the case of Saiga the "Kalisnakov USA Hunting Rifle/Saiga" is listed but the Russian American Arms versions are not listed therefore as long as it is configured legally you can own it.
Most FFL's in California are still not on board (the DOJ intimidates them) but there are some who are stepping up and offering their FFL services and a few are even stocking them. But for the most part folks are building them up from stipped lower receivers.

What happened is a bunch of folks started discussing the law and found a fully legal way to own these guns because of how the law was written and how later court rulings made it possible to buy a "nonlisted" gun or lower receiver and build it up in a CA legal configuration.

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#105760 - 09/15/07 03:30 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi OBG,

I see a lot of moose, deer and black bear killed with different versions of the Lee-Enfield .303 British rifle every year in Northern Ontario. Mostly Mark 1's and 4's but the odd Jungle Carbine, usually in traditional deer camps in wooded/brushy country.

It is a very effective round at reasonable range; being an ex-service cartridge here I would guess it is as common to us as your 30-06 Springfield in the States.


Mike


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#105762 - 09/15/07 05:29 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: SwampDonkey]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Firearms are purchased for two reasons; a researched system that will deliver specific performance somewhere between 6" and 600 meters past the muzzle, and/ or an assembly of cultural and emotional features- 'wowee that's cool.' My first 'bear rifle' while at Kodiak was a Mauser 98 with 220 grain Hornadays, a common carry of many guides. When I worked 6 months in Kenai with the Park Service doing specific bear research we carried .375 H&H model 70s. My current universal surival rifle is a smelly .303 with a supply of service hardball and australian Rhino 215 grain handloads. I learned early on to let the bears do their thing and I mine. With a little common sense by both parties we have avoided any misunderstandings. I do reserve that SMLE for charging Soccer Moms in their SUVs. I figure the same tactics for bears is appropo; a breaking shot to a front tyre to stop the charge followed up by a killing shot into the engine block.

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#105772 - 09/15/07 10:21 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
It is interesting, at least to me, that nowadays many folk seem to think that they need a "magnum" for anything. I am currently in pronghorn antelope country, season in full bloom, and the other day I saw the remains of a full grown male that was shot with a 300 Winchester Mag. A 300 Winmag for a small deer??? There was not enough meat left for a good burger. I used to think that a .243, .270, and a .30-06 were good enough for anything this side of Africa. Apparenly not these days...
_________________________
OBG

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#105782 - 09/15/07 11:50 PM Re: New Rifle. Sagia 7.62x39 AK sporter. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
RayW Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 551
Loc: Orlando, FL
You are missing the point OBG, when you miss with your super duper ultra magnum the shock wave alone will take down your critter. You don't need a big gun if you know how to use it. One of my cousins lives in LA (that's Lower Alabama to you folks that ain't from around these parts) hunts with a 30 caliber carbine, work on anything from rabbits to deer. He has always put diner on the table with it.

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