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#105313 - 09/11/07 06:36 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: DeathtoToasters]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
No comments?

Ok, riddle me this...

How do I calculate the wattage that is going to be used by an item, if I have the amps and volts?

_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#105331 - 09/11/07 08:46 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: DeathtoToasters]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Some guy who wandered in…
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas, Pennsylvania, United S...
Originally Posted By: DeathtoToasters
How do I calculate the wattage that is going to be used by an item, if I have the amps and volts?

P=V×I

Power is equal to the voltage times the current. For example, 120 volts times 0.5 amps would produce 60 watts.
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“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#105340 - 09/11/07 09:33 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: JCWohlschlag]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
I am re-evaluating, (ONCE AGAIN) my generator needs. By the time I save up 4-5k for the size I would want to run the whole home, it will be a while.

So I have really thought about if the power did go out, and the gas lines were broken, after a bad earthquake, where are we going to be staying?

Well if it is a small quake and the power is out. First I will check out the house structure as best as I can.

Once with, my limited knowledge, I feel comfortable about staying in the house with the family, we would most likely only occupy a single room, until the power comes back up.

Knowing that, here is what I anticipate using:

(4) florescent ceiling lights

(1) Microwave

(1) Small TV (for kids)

(1) VCR/DVD Player

(1) Small portable A/C Unit (13,000) BTU

Those are all the basic needs we would have.

If the house was not capable of being occupied, we would move into a full size tent.

If that is the situation, then we would still use all the same things mentioned above but the ceiling lights.

With those thoughts, I don't need a 10k generator.

I should only need 5-6k at most.

The only thing I would need to change in supply is water for the portable A/C.


Is there anything I am missing?
_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#105348 - 09/11/07 10:21 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: ]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Of course you don't need a 10,000 watt generator, but you might want one to be able to run things that might come in handy when the time arises.


Very true, but here is the situation. Either wait 6 - 7 months till I can start to see the possibility of getting one that big, or get the other one in 1-2 months.


What would you do?

Remember that I have a wife and 4 kids smile

_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#105350 - 09/11/07 10:31 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: ]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
Yeah but if we are in a situation where we have no power because of an earthquake....I am not going to have the internet. Plus I always can find another small tv to plug into the generator smile

_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#105353 - 09/11/07 10:47 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: ]
RayW Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 551
Loc: Orlando, FL
Death, how about the fridge? Or will all of your youngin's devour the contents within a day?

With what you are running 5k-6k should be enough. When you run the microwave you might need to turn off the AC. But you should be able to make it work.

I noticed in some of your post you were looking at diesels, if you spend the money and go this way get a low speed water cooled unit. The small high speed 3600rpm, air cooled diesels are not as durable as the slower units and you will get worse fuel economy. The fuel economy of the high speed diesels is comparable to the same type of unit that will run on gas. And since diesel cost more per gallon it will be more expensive to run.

Since you are putting a lot of thought, and soon to be money, into this why not get two generators. Yes, this is something else to add to your thinking process, but i am just asking you to think about this. Won't even raise this to the level of suggesting it, but think about purchasing a fair quality generator in the 5-6k range. Do a test run one weekend when you don't need it just so you can see how everything works and what you need to do differently just in case you really need it. Then start saving up for the BIG rig that will run your house and keep everyone fat and happy. After you go for the big one you can sell you little genny or keep it as a spare, just in case the big one doesn't start. You can also use the spare generator as a bargaining chip. After the hurricanes passed though here i loaned my spare generator to next door, yes i am the favorite neighbor, and then handed him all of my empty gas cans. He had a genny and i had gas. Just something else for you to think about.

And don't forget to have four rolls of duct tape to keep the little ones busy, it will use less power than four tv's. wink

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#105457 - 09/12/07 09:54 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: RayW]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: RayW
Death, how about the fridge? Or will all of your youngin's devour the contents within a day?

With what you are running 5k-6k should be enough. When you run the microwave you might need to turn off the AC. But you should be able to make it work.

I noticed in some of your post you were looking at diesels, if you spend the money and go this way get a low speed water cooled unit. The small high speed 3600rpm, air cooled diesels are not as durable as the slower units and you will get worse fuel economy. The fuel economy of the high speed diesels is comparable to the same type of unit that will run on gas. And since diesel cost more per gallon it will be more expensive to run.

Since you are putting a lot of thought, and soon to be money, into this why not get two generators. Yes, this is something else to add to your thinking process, but i am just asking you to think about this. Won't even raise this to the level of suggesting it, but think about purchasing a fair quality generator in the 5-6k range. Do a test run one weekend when you don't need it just so you can see how everything works and what you need to do differently just in case you really need it. Then start saving up for the BIG rig that will run your house and keep everyone fat and happy. After you go for the big one you can sell you little genny or keep it as a spare, just in case the big one doesn't start. You can also use the spare generator as a bargaining chip. After the hurricanes passed though here i loaned my spare generator to next door, yes i am the favorite neighbor, and then handed him all of my empty gas cans. He had a genny and i had gas. Just something else for you to think about.

And don't forget to have four rolls of duct tape to keep the little ones busy, it will use less power than four tv's. wink


Well I have been looking around for diesel, etc....I am just tierd...

The more I look the more things say the same. Meaning I see the good reasons for both.

At this point I have to think of the following.

Money

Fuel Storage

Generator Size

Wattage


From those thoughts, it is going to be a gasoline generator or tri fuel generator. Obviously gas generators are cheaper, that is not really the largest issues.

I will just put the fuel in a shed, which will get rid of the issues of worrying about my garage.

Most of the generators I am seeing that are diesel, that run 10k watts or over are too big for me to put anywhere.

I don't think I would be totally happy with either or as I am the kind of person who almost always thinks about what it would be like on the other side smile

_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#105459 - 09/12/07 10:13 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: DeathtoToasters]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
Ray,

BTW I think you are on to something with the 2 generators....I might get one for the AC and then another for everything else.

The A/C, being a 13 SEER is a beast and during the winter I don't really need it, to be honest.....so I appreciate the suggestion smile
_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

Top
#105544 - 09/13/07 05:01 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: DeathtoToasters]
rabagley Offline
Student of Life
Stranger

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 9
I would strongly suggest that you add "generator duty cycle" and "generator service life" to your list of things to think about.

High-speed generators have a very limited duty cycle. Most have a 50% duty cycle, so using them for more than a few hours straight at full load without a break of the same length means losing quite a bit of service life. High-speed generators also have a service life of 1000 hours. Under ideal conditions and usage (50% duty cycle), expect your gasoline generator to require a complete overhaul (same cost as a new generator) after 1000 hours of use. If you do run your generator constantly, expect a service life of 100 hours or less.

Ray's note about high-speed diesel generators being almost as bad as gasoline generators is on the money. 3600rpm means inefficient and early death. Just since I've been reading this thread (and seeing those Affordable Power units), I've shifted from wanting an 1800rpm genset to a 1200rpm genset.

In Katrina, lots of people had gasoline generators. Lots of those gasoline generators failed within 48 hours because they were not given any rest and burned themselves up. Sure, they were covered under warranty, but it's tough to get warranty service when your local roads are impassable.

Everyone I talk to about generators calls gasoline (including tri-fuel) generators "toy generators" or "fuzzy blankets". You feel better having it in the garage, but you're not really better off. The consensus I've heard: they're okay for a worksite or the occasional trailer camping trip, but don't bet your life on them.

I'd just hate for you to spend all of this time and that money planning to help yourself with a generator and then have something that doesn't help you at all. Or, only helps you for a couple of days.

I checked the shipping on those Affordable Power gensets and it's only $250 to LA. Assuming Palm Springs is a little less, that's $2600 for a bulletproof 12kW generator that will save you money hand over fist on fuel and maintenance, and assuming you drop off the grid tomorrow, won't need an overhaul until 2017.

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#105547 - 09/13/07 05:21 PM Re: Propane Storage....let's hear everyones ideas. [Re: rabagley]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
I appreciate that advice.

Where are those affordable ones again? I am trying to find the link, but am running into a lost trail of links...


You make some great points. I have to agree with you on alot of what you said. It is just so hard to make a decision.
_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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