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#102277 - 08/10/07 06:47 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: drahthaar]
Frank2135 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 266
Loc: Ohio, USA
My apologies. From your prior posts I was getting a sense that your assumption was that profit-motivated operations are inherently suspect and probably immoral. Bad judgment on my part. Please don't take offense.

blush

Frank2135
_________________________
All we can do is all we can do.

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#102280 - 08/10/07 07:10 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: Frank2135]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
The question being raised in this suit is whether or not the sainted ARC can collect money from a profit-chasing, capitalist pig corporation by licensing it to use the same symbol that J&J has trademarked. It allows said profit-chasing, capitalist pig corporation to make the same money-grubbing use of the symbol that J&J does without having to bother with a trademark. In other words, it's alleged to be a capitalist pig conspiracy and the sainted American Red Cross (read the stories about the San Diego chapter some time) is in the middle of it, allegedly grubbing for money along with the other oinkers.


I must say that was very succinct way of describing the issue.

Therefore we can conclude that J&J is a money grabbing capitalist pig corportation who purpose is to provide profits for its owners and that;

ARC is a charity which use money grabbing capitalist pig corporation techniques within a capitalist pig economy (sorry but that was just to keep the analogy consistant) to raise money so that it can provide services such as emergency relief to folks in times of national and local emergency.

And that J&J believe that the average consumer will be confused by thinking that part of the cost of purchasing products such as panty liners and household airfreshners, which J&J manufacture ( a family company smile ), could potentially be being donated to the ARC, rather than providing to the owners of said J&J corporation it rightful profits because of confusion surrounding the trademark, which it claims it owns (i.e. J&J as a global commercial business entity has the full singular ownership and commercial use rights of the Red Cross symbol).








Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (08/10/07 07:20 PM)

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#102282 - 08/10/07 07:50 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I think you are missing the point.

The issue is the ARC is partnering or licensing to commercial companies the use of the Red Cross trademark, which J&J owns for commercial applications. As I understand the use of this particular trademark, the ARC may use it for any purpose it has direct responsibility, i.e. educational literature, training manuals, audio-visual training aids, vehicle or personal identification, but they may not extend to others the use of the trademark for commercial applications.

Pete

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#102288 - 08/10/07 09:37 PM new drinking game anyone? [Re: DesertFox]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
Quote:
BTW, do you have a twin-brother named Bentirrian?


Am Fear Liath Mòr (also known as The Big Grey Man of Ben MacDhui or simply 'the Greyman') is the name of a presence or creature which is said to haunt the summit and passes of Ben MacDhui, the highest peak of the Cairngorms and the second highest peak in Scotland. It has been described as an extremely tall figure covered with short hair, or as an unseen presence that causes uneasy feelings in people who climb the mountain. There is little evidence of the existence of this creature besides various sightings and a few photographs of unusual footprints.

It's the same guy...new drinking game anyone?
_________________________
....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#102289 - 08/10/07 09:41 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: paramedicpete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi Pete,

From what I have been able to gather, J&J do not own the red cross symbol as a trademark as the red cross symbol essentially cannot be trademarked within the US. J&J have been able to continue to use the red cross symbol because the company was incorporated prior to the 18 USC 706 law and due to historical usage the red cross symbol on some of its products and have historically carried on using the red cross on some of its products. J&J cannot have a trademark on the red cross symbol.
J&J I suspect will not have a registration mark beside the red cross symbol because it would be in violation of US law.

Of course the AMR is allowed to authorise its assigned agents to allow the use of the red cross symbol as allowed for under the code. I am afraid that J&J by claiming sole rights within US jurisdiction are on a hiding to nothing.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (08/10/07 09:43 PM)

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#102290 - 08/10/07 09:45 PM Re: new drinking game anyone? [Re: Themalemutekid]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Am Fear Liath Mòr (also known as The Big Grey Man of Ben MacDhui or simply 'the Greyman') is the name of a presence or creature which is said to haunt the summit and passes of Ben MacDhui, the highest peak of the Cairngorms and the second highest peak in Scotland. It has been described as an extremely tall figure covered with short hair, or as an unseen presence that causes uneasy feelings in people who climb the mountain. There is little evidence of the existence of this creature besides various sightings and a few photographs of unusual footprints


You forgot to mention the Top Hat! smile

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#102439 - 08/13/07 01:27 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Here is at least one of the Johnson & Johnson US Trademarks:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=v37e1v.2.22

Here is at least one of the ARC US Trademarks:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=v37e1v.2.29

One would have to look up each of the “Goods and Services” that each trademark covers to see which who has “rights’ to what.

It also looks that there are many “Red Cross” Trademarks, some “live, some dead”.

It is obvious, that Trademark and Trademark law is complex, let us wait and see what the US court(s) determine before we condemn either entity.

Pete



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#102441 - 08/13/07 01:52 PM Re: new drinking game anyone? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

You forgot to mention the Top Hat! smile


And the thick skin. laugh

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#102445 - 08/13/07 02:17 PM Re: new drinking game anyone? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Frank2135 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 266
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
The question being raised in this suit is whether or not the sainted ARC can collect money from a profit-chasing, capitalist pig corporation by licensing it to use the same symbol that J&J has trademarked. It allows said profit-chasing, capitalist pig corporation to make the same money-grubbing use of the symbol that J&J does without having to bother with a trademark. In other words, it's alleged to be a capitalist pig conspiracy and the sainted American Red Cross (read the stories about the San Diego chapter some time) is in the middle of it, allegedly grubbing for money along with the other oinkers.


I must say that was very succinct way of describing the issue.


Sarcasm deserves sarcasm. Point taken.

Quote:
Therefore we can conclude that J&J is a money grabbing capitalist pig corportation who purpose is to provide profits for its owners and that;

ARC is a charity which use money grabbing capitalist pig corporation techniques within a capitalist pig economy (sorry but that was just to keep the analogy consistant) to raise money so that it can provide services such as emergency relief to folks in times of national and local emergency.


Yes and no. Profit is obviously the point of commerce; I don't think anyone engages in it in order to be at one with the cosmos or to discover the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything. On the other hand, the ARC seems to be providing "relief" primarily to its own executives and "services" primarily to the private corporations that bid the most for licensing rights to the red cross symbol.

Quote:
And that J&J believe that the average consumer will be confused by thinking that part of the cost of purchasing products such as panty liners and household airfreshners, which J&J manufacture ( a family company smile ), could potentially be being donated to the ARC, rather than providing to the owners of said J&J corporation it rightful profits because of confusion surrounding the trademark, which it claims it owns (i.e. J&J as a global commercial business entity has the full singular ownership and commercial use rights of the Red Cross symbol).


The ARC is licensing companies to put the red cross on panty liners and air fresheners? First I've heard of that. Doesn't seem like a very sound marketing strategy, but what do I know?

There, I did it again, I lapsed into sarcasm. Sorry. Again, my point is not the defense of J&J's actions or its "thoughts". My point is that the white hat worn by the American Red Cross is definitely a bit soiled, and the right and the wrong of it all have yet to be determined.


Frank2135
_________________________
All we can do is all we can do.

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#102457 - 08/13/07 03:43 PM Re: Johnson & Johnson sues the American Red Cross [Re: JCWohlschlag]
JimJr Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 133
Loc: Central Mississippi
Unfortunately the CNN article is little more than a ARC press release. This article by BBC News (admittedly not among my top news sites) presents a more balanced view of the dispute.

JimJr

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