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#100247 - 07/19/07 11:32 PM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (long) [Re: Jesselp]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Not much I can add, I think that everything has been pretty well covered. I have no doubt that next time you have to bug out you will take the bag you made up for that very purpose. I would really suggest that you get a light of some kind, little bitty, mid sized, something, and carry it on your person ALL the time. Next time you might have to abandon the BOB and hit the stairs, lose power, emergency lights in the stairwells (if they are installed at all) can fail, and it can be DARK inside of those things. I recall reading of one guy (who died in the process) with a light who kept going up and down the stairwells in one of the towers on 9/11, guiding people out because there were no lights...
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#100250 - 07/19/07 11:39 PM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (long) [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
OBG makes a good point. If the lights go off while you're away from your desk you may need a small light in your pocket to get to the kit at your desk. I refer back to that Mission Wallet. . .
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#100259 - 07/20/07 12:59 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (long) [Re: Russ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Thats what I was getting at too, carry some gear on you in case you can't get to that bob. I've found that office wear can actually carry a lot of gear without looking bulky, usually there are deeper pockets than jeans and casual clothing.

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#100261 - 07/20/07 01:26 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (l [Re: Jesselp]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Thanks for taking the time to type that all out, Jesselp. As an ex-Manhattanite, I can appreciate what you went through. Except for not grabbing your gear, which was right there, on your way out, sounds like you acted rationally and appropriately to keep yourself safe.

JohnN already beat me to the point, but there's one aspect of office life that really keeps you away from gear at your desk--meetings. Many people spend the majority of their time running from meeting room to meeting room. Many of these meeting rooms could be on a different floor from their desk. So I think it pays to keep some things on you, unless you work in a very small office and you're generally very close to your supplies throughout the day.

I'm rather surprised that you basically had the stairwell all to yourself. You'd think that more people who prefer the stairs, but I guess I'm wrong. Either that, or else you guys reacted faster than most people and just beat the rush.

I'm also one who would disagree with the suggestion that the elevators should've been locked down. High-rise office buildings are not designed to quickly evacuate the entire building population through stairs alone, even in case of fire. If there is no fire or other immediate danger to the building itself or imminent risk of losing power, using elevators can greatly speed up the evacuation of a building. Of course, every situation is unique. But like thseng seemed to allude to, I wonder if the building staff might've jumped the gun on the evacuation order, though. In general, you're generally safer indoors unless your own building is on fire or contaminated somehow. If all I had to act on was hearing some boom or rumble outside, I think I would personally prefer to stay indoors until I had more information. Of course, in your case, you were instructed to leave, so that's a different situation.

In your case, you were probably in greatest danger from getting run over by a distracted driver who was looking at the steam plume or gawking at all the people trying to get away! Half joking, but half serious, too.



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#100263 - 07/20/07 01:50 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate -- Photo's [Re: Arney]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#100265 - 07/20/07 02:01 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (long) [Re: Jesselp]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

i think what we should all pick up here is not the little
details like jumping from the loading dock or the day-care
but rather that line from Robert Burns " the best layed
plans of mice and men"..Jesselp had his gear in line and
ready to go..enought i would say to get out and away from
trouble..but when the moment came he ran for his life
and left it behind..something thats quite natural..which
is why anyone who has been in the armed services will tell
you that training over and over--and over..untill unnatural
things--like not running away..or shooting back..or whatever
become 50%--60%?? 90%??? of the survival issue..


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#100273 - 07/20/07 02:58 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (l [Re: thseng]
Micah513 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Springfield, MO
I understand your point that your odds are more than likely better sheltering in place, however if I worked in a high rise in NYC (and after watching 9/11 play out on TV) I would haul tail out of their regardless of an order to evacuate. Getting away from any explosion as fast as I could would be my decision. Great thread. You guys are awesome a breaking it all down & planning out the next event.

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#100275 - 07/20/07 03:00 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (l [Re: Jesselp]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I guess I should ask, what style of dress is the norm for your office? You can get decently dressy shoes that aren't pointy toed ankle breakers- some even have caps and vibram soles! And a good cobbler (there must be some in NYC) can make you whatever you want if you want to pay the money.

If you are going to carry a mask in your pocket, get some small ziplocks. Bag it and seal it with packing tape to strengthen the bag and keep the zip closed, with a dessicant pack inside. They don't like moisture. And remember to check it.

Do you normally have your keys in your bag, or on you? Then a Swiss Army Knife, flashlight and whistle are probably going to be easy for you to incorporate into your on-person EDC. As has been pointed out, a second wallet of goodies is pretty easy to set up, and you might find you are more comfortable- a lot of men screw up their posture with the list created by a wallet in the back pocket, so a second will balance.

As far as remembering to grab your gear, I saw that you had velcroed your work BOB to your desk- what kind of bag is it? I hang my EDC bag of tricks off the back of my chair at work, along with my coat or sweater if I brought one. And the go with me to every meeting- people sometimes look at it funny, but no one every says anything after I start pulling out my meeting notes, thumb drive, whatever as needed.

You've got the plan from the childcare people- do you have a map? Since you and your wife are very close, have you a plan to head to the other's work place, or to meet at a location if it is larger incident?
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#100285 - 07/20/07 06:53 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (l [Re: Jesselp]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Jesselp

- To add to our communications options, I'm thinking of adding a small FRS radio to my wife and my office bags. We only work 1/2 mile from each other, and have line of site between our offices up Park Avenue. We could agree that if cell phones don't work, we turn the radios on to a pre-arranged channel and start calling on a regular basis. Thoughts?


Seems worth a try. I'd try GRMS instead (it's just $80 for the family license for 5 yrs I think). Keep in mind many FRS/GRMS radios tend to use rechargeable batteries which self-discharge pretty quickly.

However, the fact your wife works so closely is another aspect that should be planned. If something threatens you, it probably will be a threat to her. The upside is you are close. You should probably talk about pre-arranged meeting points based on different events.

For example, if something is localized and near your building, you take your son to her building. If something happens near her building, she meets you at your building. If something more widespread happens, you both go in <mumble> direction and meet at <mumble>. Coordinating those meeting points with your son's daycare evacuation plans might make sense.

+1 on at least a small light on your person. Interiors of buildings can be very dark as can subways, etc. I walked down 30 stories of a high rise a number of years back during an evacuation, and not sure what was up with the emergency lighting, but it was totally pitch black.

+1 on the consideration of shelter in place. If something bad has happened but your location is not in immediate danger, consider the potential you might be better off where you are.

The big thing I'd want improved is the PA announcement to evacuate. I would really try to get them to give a better description of their understanding of their threat. Something like "there is a report of an explosion up the street, we have no more details" is infinitely better than "evacuate the building now".

-john


Edited by JohnN (07/20/07 07:04 AM)

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#100287 - 07/20/07 09:47 AM Re: Everybody Immediately Evacuate The Building (l [Re: JohnN]
xavier01 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Phx, AZ
Great post. Thanks to everyone on your willingness to share information.

About remembering your BOB, you could train yourself in the following way:

Everytime you find yourself in a "situation", go through a short mental checklist or action-list, whatever it might be for you, and include in that, to ask yourself where your bag is and if it is worth burning the time to go get.

At first, you will forget all or part, but after enough "situations", it will become a very natural habit.

You could say I'm a long way from you because I'm in Phx, AZ, but 9/11 still hurts.

Many of us are here seeking advice, but, please, let us all be messengers and educators, as well.

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