Powdered bleach, fish flex, and honeybuckets.

I didn't want to hijack the Iodine dropper thread, so I'm opening up a new one to address two questions I have about health and sanitation. I came across these in one of the recent ITRH (In The Rabbit Hole) podcasts and I want everybody's thoughts on them

1) Powdered bleach vs liquid bleach: Powdered bleach, sold as pool supplies (pool shock) is supposed to have a near indefinite shelf life if left unopened. Household liquid bleach is only good for about a year. Assuming that I can work out the concentrations, would powdered bleach be a good alternative for cleaning and water purification?

FWIW Clorox regular bleach is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite solution containing approximately 7.85% available chlorine by weight, and Leslie's Power Powder Plus is 70% available chlorine by weight. I have no idea what their respective densities are.

2) Veterinary antibiotics: Keflex (cephalexin) is a common antibiotic used against skin and upper respiratory bacterial infections. I've been on it with no side effects. It's also sold OTC as fish flex, along with a number of other antibiotics (i.e. amoxicillin). In a complete TEOTWAWKI emergency where sickness has historically been a major problem(i.e. refugee camps), could it be used to treat or prevent bacterial infections?

3) Is there a preferred powdered treatment for honeybuckets (camp toilet). I've been relying on hydrated lime, but the stuff is so caustic, I can't help but wonder if there isn't already a commercial treatment for it.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=17477&Number=246425#Post246425

The above links to an earlier thread giving instructions on how to disinfectant water with pool shock.

There were additional posts which I can't find right now. If I can pull them up I'll update this post.

Test strips for water purification: http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276756

Some CDC info:
http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/chlorination-faq.html

I think a lot depends upon the scale at which you are operating. I would boil or filter for small scale situations. Not atall sure about using the chemicals you propose.

honey buckets. I recently use, with very satisfactory results Wag Bags, which handled waste very satisfactorily for two weeks for three to four of us. Not cheap

At a larger scale, start digging (easy for an archaeologist to say). I have used a plain slit trench, shoveling in a bit of dirt afterwards. Years ago, in a field situation involving about thirty people for six weeks, we did use lime , with no problems. Just be careful.

No opinion on antibiotics. Although it is mundane, apparently washing hands carefully, especially after the toilet, is really important. I would tend to avoid large crowds, for all kinds of reasons.

From my perspective....Antibiotics....
Most important is hygiene. Hand washing. IF it got to the TEOTWAWKI situation....then yes I'd use the antibiotics... that being said.... there are 'specific' antibiotics for specific infections.... certain bugs respond to certain antibiotics better than others. Assuming you don't know what the bug is, a broad spectrum antibiotic would be a good start. The docs I come across on a daily basis would tell you that getting a more specific med for the specific bug is better. But most of the docs I 'know'don't like jumping to antibiotics.

As for the 'prevention' aspect..... I'd say don't. Better minds may have good reason otherwise but personally.... there is a reason we are seeing MDROs (Multiple Drug Resistant Organisms). TOO MUCH antibiotic drug use! Too many 'super bugs' are out there.

A biochemist friend of my wife and my wife agree.... what will 'bring us down' is going to be something like these super bugs.

1. For what purpose? Chlorine will only work well if the water is relatively clean already. So although cheap, not very versatile.

There used to be a product called Polar Pure which was the only commercial available chemical (iodine) water purification product I know of. Unfortunately not available anymore. Also a big issue in storage, as it seems to effect things around it. (it even eats away at the Mylar coating, when stored in Mylar bags)

For long term storage, I would suggest a gravity water filter. I prefer Ceramic filter for this purpose, as they can be reset by scrubbing off the surface. They also don't have any issues with drying out (like hollow fibre type of filters). Gravity filter, because pumping is just a chore.

2. Good practise of use antibiotics is to:

Not use it, if it’s not needed.
- If you never let your immune system work, it will not perform well.
- You kill of the bacteria that are sensitive to the antibiotic, but there are always some of that harmful bacteria that are immune and survive. They will multiply and then you just got yourself a resistant bacteria.
- You will kill the good bacteria, some are needed for your digestion, some protect you from harmful bacteria.

If antibiotics are used:
- It’s best to check which bacteria if causing the infection and if they are resistant. Then take the smallest spectrum antibiotics, as they will limit their harmfulness to the good bacteria and prevent you from making bacteria resistant to the more powerful antibiotics.
- Always finish the prescribed course even when you feel better. If you don’t; there is a chance it will come back in a resistant form.

I would not self-medicate on antibiotics and certainly not preventively, as you have no idea what bacteria you are facing. So you won’t know if it’s effective, so you might be killing off the good bacteria that is protecting you when you need them. You don’t know how long to take them, but it will effect good bacteria and make bacteria resistant.

Antibiotic use is actually a hot topic and you can following a course about antibiotic on many MOOC platforms. (example this one just started: https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/antimicrobial-resistance-food-chain/1/todo/7301, although slighty different take, but still usefull for your generally knowledge)

No argument. Unfortunately, DPC (displaced persons camp) or a superdome type scenario is something that seems to happen after most big natural disasters. Washing hands will offer some protection, but you are going to be stuck in a big crowd. It's inevitable that somebody will get sick and start spreading disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5438a6.htm
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2005/09/sick_city.html
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2005/09/hurricane-katrina-sparks-fears-disease-outbreaks

I've got no experience with pool chlorine for water treatment, sorry!

When I started backpacking and portaging, I used boiling and Coghlan's 2-step water purification tablets. They tasted horrible but they worked. They come in one bottle though, and once it's open all the tabs start to degrade so.....

Now I use a combination of boiling and Katadyn MicroPur tablets or Aqua Tabs. 1 tab = 1 litre. Great for solo or two people, but not for a group. They don't taste great either, but it's only one step and they're packaged individually, so no worries about opening the whole bottle like with the Coghlan's. Easy to store a few here and there through my kits.

I have no experience with them, but I've seen in stores around here, and know a few people who use Aquamira drops or Pristine drops. I believe they are both 2-step systems, using liquid drops instead of tablets. They've been likened to Polar Pure, which I have no experience with either.

I do sometimes use my Katadyn mini filer, but it's a PITA, and freezes in the winter, so it's in my BOB and doesn't get used regularly anymore. A gravity filter in on my wish list!

In case of emergencies, we all have filter straws in our kits too. Easier for the kiddos. No need to a fire or timing. just put the two pieces together and drink.

I am not sure that DPC or Superdome incidents occur after most disasters. There are many variables in play. In Southern California, which has seen it share of disasters (e.g., Sylmar and Northridge EQs), shelters which were set up are usually sparsely attended. In an urban situation like New Orleans, disasters scenarios may well play out differently. But, although the helpful sources you cite talk about the concern about disease and epidemics, there is no note of any significant uptick in disease. Your first article gives some definite numbers, but there is no comparison (that I saw, anyway) that compares those occurrences with "normal"conditions.

I suppose it is worth pointing out that in addition to washing hands and keeping generally clean, it is a good idea to get your shots and vaccinations - another subject about as thrilling as watching paint dry. But getting your flu shots will really pay off, and it is cost effective to boot.