NYC; bug-out, survive in place, etc

2nd post. Live in Tribeca - downtown Manhattan - wife, two small kids, apartment building, 7 floors, elevator, stairs, no outdoor space. While not a native, I have lived here for 20+ years and I have seen a few terrorist attacks, a random power outage in the whole of the Northeast, several snowstorms/blizzards,hurricanes; especially Sandy, a fire in our building, etc. I don't have an intention of living in a post - say - nuclear bombi situation or a post pandemic - think the plague in the middle ages - type scenario. I just want to keep myself and my family in good health and spirits in situations that I fully expect to encounter again. My wife - and others - would argue - that a bare minimum is necessary as we would "get out of dodge" before or as soon as possible after an event. I have a suv in the city as well as a dual-sport motorcycle and a scooter; more options - in theory - then most. That being said getting - what - a few million people off this island would take quite a bit of time - hours would be fantasy; probably days. And I can envision - as the authorities have closed the bridges and tunnels in the past - situations were we would be forced to survive in place. A multi-foot dump of snow - for example - would basically preclude travel. Also in the event of an - umm - event - I can see the guy with the car or motorcycles and the supplies to be a target of appropriation from their my fellow citizens or the police/government. Anyways this is a very long winder expression of my disappointment over what I have discovered on the web so far. I have read thru countless posts and watched countless videos of guys edc bags, bob bags, and home supplies in which no mention is ever made of the need for; nbc gas masks - helpful during a 9/11 type situation, a pandemic, etc. Tools - and I am not implying any illegal activity here - such as a pry bar or window punch or a way to mitigate locks - in the event of a fire, earthquake (yes nyc has fault lines nearby) etc. I see alot of urban "bags" with tree saws or 12 different ways to start a fire or devices dependent on electricity and a cell network to function. No mention of having some SAT phones around and a way to charge them. I am really not trying to stir the pot, be unfair, or critical but seems to me ALOT more thought needs to be put into a true urban situation. Can we stay? If we choose to go cxan we get out? great I got a 50lb bob backpack; can I really walk with that? Is someone going to stick me up and steal it? Barter items; he with the most weapons/guns wins, no? This is meant to provoke thought...

Welcome aboard!

First, I think you need to prepare for at least two scenarios, bugging out and bugging in.

For bugging in, you need to look a heat, light, food, water, waste disposal, medical requirements, staving off boredom, communications, cash, hygiene, waste disposal, and security needs, at least. You need to be ready to deal with at least a short-term requirement to seal off your apartment from contaminants. As you say, fire starting and woods-craft are less important.

For bugging out, add navigation, transportation, multiple ways off Manhattan, places to go, and triggers that would cause you to execute your plan. If you succeed in leaving Manhattan it's possible that you'd find yourself needing fire-starting and woods-craft tools and skills, so don't neglect them completely.

I'm originally from Manhattan and my mother still lives there. It isn't easy to leave Manhattan at the best of times. When Sandy was approaching I asked Mom to go visit friends on the mainland for a few days and she acted like I was out of my mind. Fortunately she weathered the storm well.

In your shoes, if I were committed to remaining in Manhattan, I would start looking at the most probable scenarios that would call for a bug out and be ready to make it happen. I would work to vanquish the oh-so-common "it can't happen here" attitude in myself and my family. In simple terms, I would aim to be among the first to leave if the situation seemed to call for it.

Leaving most large highly populated areas is an event, bugging out from said large highly populated area during a terrorist/weather/EOTW event is something you either do ahead of the event or you roll to Plan B -- Bugging In. For me, Plan B is the norm; unless I know to leave before the event the road East will be packed and one tank of gas won't get there. Forget North/South, that's LA or Mexico. West is wet.

Go early or don't go.

YMMV

Have you checked out the "Urban Disaster" pages on this website? They do list some of the items you mention. Of course, any such list is no more than a starting point for your own decision, adapted to you own particular circumstances.

I quite agree with Russ - BI is likely to be a more viable strategy and it gives you "home field advantage," so to speak.

" West is wet." Ah,but if you navigate correctly, you will land on one of the Channel Islands, blessed and idyllic isles far from the strife and stress of modern life. They are fine if you enjoy sea food.

This will depend on how fit you are, what terrain and distance you have to cover, how long do you have to make the journey, etc. At 38, I found myself back in school carrying up to 40lb of books and laptop up and down hill for several cumulative miles on a daily basis. It wasn't difficult because it was broken down into several short legs with classes and meetings in between.

I lived in Manhattan although I never had a vehicle. Living on an island definitely creates movement issues.

Here's another option to consider--making friends with someone within Manhattan as a bugout destination. Many situations will be more localized and will not necessarily affect both your apartment and the other bugout location. The power outages I went through didn't affect the whole borough. Subways were flooded in some places but not others. 9/11 happened way downtown while I lived and worked far uptown.

For a rapidly unfolding situation, it would probably be far more feasible to reach another part of Manhattan than getting off the island. I'd rather walk 80 blocks uptown to a friend's place than hoof it across a bridge on foot and then hope to find a way on the other side to continue on to my final bugout destination.

The space constraints certainly does put limits on how long your can bug-in at any typical Manhattan apartment, though, although NYC probably has the most thought-through contigency plans for restoring supplies and services after some incident.

I agree. Being stuck on a freeway with cranky, impatient people is no fun on a normal day. Just look at the evacuation of Houston for hurricane Rita.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1BcBaam7c8

Welcome;

There have been several threads (several years ago) about NYC survival/bugging out--- you may be able to pull them up with the search function.

One of the things that came up was the issue of walking out of the city, or at least Manhattan.

A couple of things that I recall receiving favorable mention were a silcock wrench to open the external water faucets on buildings (to get potable water)(NYC water is pressure fed, so water flows even if the power is out) and the utility of the common and ordinary (in NYC) 2 wheel shopping cart to carry your things. It avoids you having to carry that 50 pound back pack, and, being so common, draws less attention than a big backpack. Living in the city, you may have one of these already. Last time I was in Brooklyn, you could find them all over for very reasonable prices.

As for the NBC mask, I do actually see those in certain BOB post of people. Personally I don't believe in carrying such NBC equipment.
There are a few issues with carrying such mask:
- Many end up buying surplus masks, which are far too old and the materials get porous and filter canisters degrade. (air tight does not mean vapor tight, so you can't really test it yourself) So it gives you a false sense of safety
- To put on a NBC mask, you first need to know there is a danger. NBC detecting is hard, especially when you don't expect it. I don't think people will walk around with PID and Geiger meters all the time. If you feel the effects, you are generally already in big trouble.
- A NBC mask only protects your face and airways. Leaving the rest exposed is a big problem.
- If you escaped effectively, you need to know how to decontaminate.
- You need the right training, to wear, detect and decontaminate.

In the end you need up with a huge amount of equipment and have too much cash invested in one possible scenario, making it highly unpractical and have much less cash left for other possibilities. Just a N95 (optional would be the versions with a carbon layer, sold as disposable welding masks) would be sufficient for most situations, won't slow you down and doesn't cost much.

I do see people with lots of batteries or solar charge options. I find that satphones have their place, but in most cases you want to call relatives and friends nearby which means either everybody has a satphone or more likely you won’t be able to call them when the cellphone towers are down.

Just a few additional notes on backpacking. Appropriate fit of the backpack is critical. But it from a store that has the expertise to see that it is fitted to you properly. If you are wearing it for the first time, a fifty pound load will be burdensome, although experienced packers carry loads like that routinely. Most prefer to keep the weight somewhat lower. There are several forums devoted entirely to the subject of light weight backpacking.

The important thing is that disaster day is not the best day to shift modes and adapt some procedure with which you are not familiar.

Big, Big, BIG +1!

While it had been more than a few years since the first degree, I only needed to get used to it again. I'd learned the tricks for handling the load with the first degree. It took me about a week to get the pack dialed in for the best load carrying combined with being able to get it on & off easily multiple times during the day.

I've lived in the middle of Washington, D.C. for 25 years so have given this a lot of thought -- especially when stuck in rush hour traffic. Traffic is awful here on a good day. Morning and evening rush hour are each now 3 to 4 hours long.

You don't know where you'll be (or your family) when something happens -- home, work, in transit -- so try to plan for each of those scenarios.

There's something I purchased in the past year that I highly recommend for city life, period, but especially as part of your preparedness: Burley Travoy. It's a bike "trailer" and hand-cart.

http://www.burley.com/page_12208/travoy.html

I'd looked at them for a couple years (they were new in 2010) and finally purchased one when we got a grocery store within walking distance in my neighborhood. I love the Travoy and use it not just for groceries. You could put your backpack on it or perhaps a child if they were too tired to walk. It'd be easy to carry down several flights of stairs.

Burley sells a number of bags designed for it, as well as cargo straps to secure anything you put on it.

It folds up very compactly (the wheels pop off with a single button). Very well designed and constructed. Not cheap, but there's literally nothing else like it available that I am aware of.

So I love it for everyday urban life and it would be priceless in an emergency whether it was an evacuation situation (foot or bike) or if gasoline became scarce and I was staying in the city.


.

Interesting cart Dagny. Do you know if they make foam filled tires for it? You know, less stuff to go wrong and all.

Dagny, that is really a neat cart. It occurred to me that it has utility even if you don't have a bike. My last excursion in DC revealed a growing number of automated "rent a bike" stands. With this cart, it seems easy to attach to one of these bikes, and the utility goes up dramatically, for bug out or otherwise.

LED - I'm unaware of any foam-filled tires.

BWS - I read this week that NYC's Bike Share fleet includes some Burley Travoys.

I have not yet used my Travoy with my bikes, other than to test it. I've so far been using it strictly for groceries (great in the store - much better than a regular shopping cart).

Have also been using it to lug camera gear to events and meetings.

It is a workhorse. Also, I have a couple carabiners and Nite Ize ties on it to increase the utility.


.

personally, I think your chances of bugging out of NYC approach zero. You would need to leave well before the problem hit and you will probably not have the information necessary to make an informed decision in time. God will not be waking you up one day with the message that today is the day to get out of Dodge.

better to prepare to bug in. NYC has a fairly decent emergency system. it is not perfect but short of a nuke strike you are probably going to be OK.

having said that the flooding that happened did have seriously negative affects on some people there. But it was a relative few. you might want to make some assessments of just what worst case scenarios might happen and determine how you would deal with them.

if you have kids you are probably screwed anyway. getting across town to get them out of school and to some kind of safety will be a nightmare.

a lot of the game carriers are available with solid wheels... just an illustration... as well as jogging strollers

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/After-the-Shot/Game-Carts-Carriers%7C/pc/104791680/c/104689980/sc/104353380/Cabelas-Magnum-Game-Carrier/1206646.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FGame-Carts-Carriers%2F104353380.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104353380

One of the issue that arises, is that much of the workforce in NYC commutes.

Look at what happened during 9/11. Buildings collapse and that essentially makes an area of about a dozen square blocks unlivable. You have to leave. You're lucky if you had time to grab your bag and get out. As a bonus, it shuts down the phone system and much of the public transit system. So what do you do?

Well, you take your stuff, start walking, and try to find somewhere to stay, right? If you live in NYC, then you might have a home to walk to where you can bug in. If you're a commuter or your home becomes unlivable, then you become a transient like most of the other people. You have to try to find a suitable shelter or hotel. That's tough to do, most shelters fill up quickly and hotels that do have room start charging $900 a night....cash only.

I know quite a few people that ended up having to walk over to Hoboken before they could even begin to find a place to stay or hitch a ride back home, a distance of over 5 miles.


Sometimes you can't just bug in. You have to move. Unfortunately, the nature of NYC means you're likely to be walking, at least until you can get out of the city. That's why I firmly believe one of the best preps for a city environment are good comfortable and sturdy shoes and socks. Everyday, all day. You don't want to be walking 5+ miles in high heals or flip-flops.

+1. A good pair of sneakers and some fresh Under Armour socks is what I like to have handy in the summer, broken-in boots and wool socks in colder weather.

I would say that you want foot gear in any environment that will allow you to walk at least five miles comfortably, at a minimum. If I have to wear something that isn't,Itry and throw at least a pair ofsneakers in my bag or back seat.

I'm going to second the notion of rolling it instead of carrying it. Most jogging or all terrain strolles are rated for 40-45 lbs per kid and 10-20 lbs of cargo. My double stroller is rated for 45 lbs per kid and 20(?) lbs of cargo. It weighs 36 lbs. ATM, it weighs 90-100 lbs when loaded for a daytrip. I can cruise on flat ground with it. The only time I really feel the weight is going uphill, and my exertion level is considerable lower then carrying half that weight.

Conversly, carrying 50 lbs on concrete is going to kill your knees and hips.

In addition to a folding game cart, which is probably the most off road capable, there's a couple of other option:
1) Folding luggage cart: Drop the backpack on it and wheel it around. Strap it to the pack when the going gets rough.
2) Trolley cart: If little old ladies can push around a weeks worth of groceries in these, you should have no problems with an oversized BOB.
3) Garden cart: My neighbor tows his two grade schoolers around the neighborhood in one of these. Not compact, but can haul an obscene amount of weight.
4) Dedicated rolling luggage: Try to find something with inline skate or scooter wheels that can be replaced in the field and carry spares.

I have a light-duty folding hand cart that folds very small and flat, runs well over pavement and reasonably well on gravel, and is rated for 150lbs. In addition to regular hand-truck duties I combine it with a milk crate and some bungee cords to make my redneck three-gun cart. It's cheap, small and light enough to stash in your trunk if you needed to switch from driving to shank's mare.

there are a lot of options out there.

I have in mind something I can put up on my shoulders or around my waist. Not necessarily to strap it on; something I can doff at will, but that will stay secure, like shoulder hooks or something. In transit, I want my hands free to be able to other things, or carry other things, whatever. But I don't want to be unable to drop the cart and run or dodge if I have to without undo manipulation.

A cart makes a lot of sense, especially in an urban environment that is for the most part still intact. Even in rugged terrain it could be helpful, but within limits. Maybe there'd be a way to rig up something you could pack on your back if you had to, and when the going is a bit easier you can put it down on integral wheels.

The Burley cart Dagny referenced to still interests me, especially the single point snap in attachment to the bicycle.

Suppose you could rig the part that attaches to the bicycle to an individual belt or harness? Then attach the cart bicycle style and you have a sort of travois or cart that you pull along behind you as you walk, leaving your hands free, but still could drop/disconnect quickly.

It should be possible to set up something like this with other type wheeled carts.

"I have in mind something I can put up on my shoulders or around my waist. Not necessarily to strap it on; something I can doff at will, but that will stay secure, like shoulder hooks or something. In transit, I want my hands free to be able to other things, or carry other things, whatever. But I don't want to be unable to drop the cart and run or dodge if I have to without undo manipulation."

Isn't that called a back pack, at least the fairly small ones? I can get out of mine pretty quick. From my army surplus days, I remember some (the old classic plywood pack boards) with straps that could be quickly disengaged, so the load could be dropped right away.

Something easier to doff than shoulder straps. I am thinking something like hooks that I could shrug and twist out of. Maybe I could rig up a harness with straps that had a hitch system with some sort of rip cord or button popper that would pop the hitch open and drop the cart off the harness clearly.

I'll have to think on this some more.

Your post made me think way back. This military gadget was a cam on the shoulder strap that could be quickly unlatched with either hand (it was placed on the front of the shoulder strap at about the nipple line. Once you popped that latch, that strap fell away and a simple shoulder shrug got rid of the other.

ai think it was issued sometime in the 1950s. I am not kidding when I call myself a geezer......

Very interesting looking, never heard about these. Found a shop here in Finland that sell that Travoy, price is quite high though, 360 euros.

I, having only my own feet to get around with, would have great use of that trolley/cart.

http://velosport.fi/verkkokauppa/burley_travoy-p-24596-14/

WRT "gas masks". Look at modern masks from major companies. Try Googling "silicone half mask" for example. You can get a wide variety of cartridges (research what each is good for) and the silicone material is soft, long lasting and inert. Learn to clean it, check for proper fit (good ones come in sizes). Half masks are small and light.

Note these can also be used for dust only with the proper filters.

N95 is better than nothing but it is woth getting N100 / HEPA IMO.

Get some practice cartidges and get comfortable with your equipment and leave your actual emergency cartidges sealed.

Wheels are a great idea IMO. I purchased a fold-up cart that I leave in my work area as well as one in the trunk of my car.

I work in a downtown office in Seattle and leave a large duffle under my desk with supplemental goods (I have a EDC bag that is my primary), including a pry-bar, hacksaw, etc. I also keep extra first aid and flashlights for my co-workers. Basically, tools aside, I've set aside items for others to avoid depleating my own supplies.

I also have several cases of bottled water in my cube area.

-john

It sound's like your looking for a rickshaw, towed hand truck, or a wheeled travois type setup where the cart is attached to you via a harness. EDIT: removing all the DIY harness stuff and sugesting you get a commercial sled "pulk" harness.

There's a variety of marine quick release snap shackles that can be undone quickly and without dexterity that you could use to attach the cart to the harness. They tend to be stiff and typically have a cord loop attached to them for ease of use.

EDIT: Be careful with the 99 or 100 series masks. The effort of pulling air through the filter adds additional load onto your heart and lungs. In addition to N series, there's also R and P ratings. I used P-95 rated 3M Tekk Protection Paint Odor Valved Respirators (Home Depot) when I had to paint my house, and they made a big difference (I'm sensative to a lot of organic fumes)

A Surly Moonlander with a Bionx Electric Kit could help hauling that 50+ lB kit out of NYC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY7UO9erG0I

A modified fat BOB trailer could also be used with the Surly fat bikes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX-TQQB7xTY

I would also check out coastkid71 Youtube page to see how those 40 somethings are still having fun on their mountain bikes.

http://www.youtube.com/user/coastkid71

i.e. Along with the dated Retro Music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVpLZgzwqc4

trade in the KTM for a couple of Vstrom DL1000s with bags