collapsible walking stick strong enough 4 defence?

For some reason the previous thread on this topic has no blank box to post in. If it was locked and I missed it; sorry moderator and delete away! :-)
I read the entire thread but didn't find anyone mention a collapsible or folding stick strong enough to hit something with. Is there such a thing?
And a happy Christmas to everyone. Lets hope this year the recession ends and we can actually buy the gear we discuss here! :-)
qjs

Whenever I think of walking sticks as weapons, I recall the classic Robin Hood/Little John encounter on the bridge - your home turf, QJS...

I get a lot of use out of my collapsible pair of Lekis, which I have had for many years. They have been everything from tent poles to photo scales and measuring rods. "Defensively," I have used them to encourage snakes to leave the path.

In a brawl, they would be better than nothing, but would soon be reduced to scrap, I suspect. While I really like and use my Leki sticks, the best all round bargain is a slightly modified shovel handle from the local hardware store- fully functional and very cheap, and of much more use in the RH/LJ ssituation.

I really cherish a hiking staff as I age - they definitely help you get over the hill. Someday I will be in the market for a tactical walker. What features would that have?

I doubt that there is a collapsible walking stick that would survive a full force blow at half its length. At least I have not found one. And I have been looking for years. To be at all effective it has to have some weight as well as strength.

I have not found a hollow rod of a size and weight that would meet walking stick criteria that would take such a punishment.

That said, there are several things you can do with a typical walking stick that would help if you were in a bad situation.

My favorite is if someone grabs you by the lapels, swing the stick over their arms, hold both ends and push it up their arms into the throat. With practice you can do that very fast. Probably break the stick, but ...

A two handed thrust with the point into some soft tissue is also effective.

However I would not recommend relying on such tactics. But if you have the stick in your hands, at least it has some use.

Let me know if you find one that is strong enough.

Nomad... been beating things with sticks for a long time.

It might not be up to use as a quarterstaff, but a photographer's monopod has some useable weight, especially if you mount a small/medium ball head on it.

Think you are onto something UTalumnus.
Anyone got ideas for something that collapses, that could be used as a walking stick . Tent poles? ski poles? Or if I simply get 2 steel tubes where one will slide inside the other how would I join them? Or ones that fold (be BIG nunchucks! :-) )
qjs

There is the Black diamond Carbon Fibre folding stick with soft touch Derby handle from NHS suppliers Phoenix Walking Sticks.

http://www.sticks.org/acatalog/Carbon_Fibre.html

For the ultimate defensive walking stick, I see that Gandalf's staff, complete with "certificate of authenticity" is now available (made by United Cutlery and available from Knife Center, among others). It is only $129, so get several and save on shipping. Since it is adequate for Balrogs, goblins, and orcs in Middle Earth, it ought to be just fine for any emergencies today. It doesn't fold, and that is a minor inconvenience, but perhaps there will be a Gen 2.......

a little pricier...from Crawford



http://www.crawfordknives.com/SURVIVAL%20STAFF%20PAGE%201.htm

Dont know about folding but that carbon fiber is strong!

Good tips - but my line of thinking is in regards to animals on the trail not other humans. Seriously, when would somebody be using a collapsible walking stick? On the trail. What do you meet on the trail that is dangerous? I am thinking of things like bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, elk, and yes even deer. Can I hit him with the stick? Perhaps but given the light weight, it would be like swatting them with a fly swatter. Rather, I see the walking stick as a poking and jabbing tool and as an aide to keep a bit of distance between me and the beast. Effective? Well, ask me after I have an encounter!

I use sticks as an extention of my body and do a little poking and prodding with them before I put my hands into dangerous locations. I find it also works well in breaking cobwebs. It came in handy when I came across a rattle snake one day, it's use as a guard against its strike was perfect and allowed me to move it off the trail without harm to myself or the snake.

That said, I store my walking stick in the vehicle behind the back seat and any tool can be helpful when warding off a human attack, even a set of keys gouged in their face...

Your experiences must be very different than mine. Apart from startling a bear, or encountering a mother with cubs, I don't worry that much about wild animals. Attacks do happen, but very rarely. Human beings and their animals (dogs especially) are way more dangerous. Most of the people I've encountered over the years in the woods have been fine, but certainly not all of them. "Friendly" dogs off leash have caused me far more scares than wilder critters and people though.

Apparently different. I thought through all my years of my years camping and backpacking and honestly I do not remember even 1 case where I have encounted an beligerient, aggressive or threatening person in the backcountry. A noisy or boisterous personality perhaps but not one that possed any danger to myself. And very few threatening dogs. I usually am in the backcountry by myself too. My trips have been to my fellow Canadian provinces of BC,AB,SK,MB,ON,NWT and the northern US states of MN,WI,ND,SD,WY,MT,ID,WA

Urban areas and front country campsites - that now thats a different kettle altogether!

I have never felt uncomfortable with humans or animals when hiking/camping save once when, on Cumberland Island, I was walking back from the beach to my camp. A snake lying on the trail, trail on a ridge between 2 swamps full of alligators. trail was about 3 feet above the water level and about a foot wide. I pushed at the snake with a walking pole and he struck at the pole. So I gently prodded until he went into the water.
Two friends told me on another occasion of walking along the same ridge and spotting some baby gators in the water on their right. Then spotting Momma Gator on their left. They departed gratefully posthaste.

my walking stick has become my favorite peice of equipment somehow. Its always with me and on so many excursions. Its a piece of maple about 5 ft long and 1 in dia. I wrapped 1/3 of it with emergency duct tape and taped a small throwing knife to it, in case I needed a spear. Next I wrapped 550 cord around it in various lenghts. Ive adorned it with small bells, saint Michael charms and some other little do dads that you'd hang from a mirror. Finished it with a rubber cane foot cap.

For protection from bears and cougars, Icarry a very slow poodle that can be deployed "thrown at" any wild animal that goes for me

I switched to a shovel handle I got at a local lumber yard after breaking my 3 piece screw together stick.

I drilled a hole near the top for a piece of paracord used as a lanyard and put a rubber cane tip on the bottom.

I have so far only used it to help my old and fat self get up and down the trail. But it is pretty stout and would serve as a good beating stick if needed in that role.

Busted stick

Shovel handle

I ended up gluing on the cane tip as it kept loosening up and made funny noises as it would move up and down against the bottom of the stick making funny noises as I move down the trail.

LesSnyder has picked a good one. I have a custom staff from Crawford, not quite the same as the one shown, that is the most rugged take down staff I have encountered. While I do not think it would withstand repeated blows from my ipe staff, it is very well built and would probably take several hits to a soft target. I did not buy it for that reason, however. Travel to and from the wilderness is NOT the place for a six foot staff. In the high country you sometimes need both hands for climbing or rescue work. Yet I do not like to walk the wild without my third leg. I far prefer the staff to ski poles. Mine breaks down into three 22 inch lengths, plus the "grip" and tip. Fits easily into a day bag, pack or suitcase. The only thing I will change the next time is to try to get him to use slightly larger tube, since I have very large hands. I do not have any of the items he puts inside, but can use the inside of the tube ( o ring sealed) for normal survival stuff.

Respectfully,

Jerry

The Crawford staff is just a tad on the pricey side. Somewhat cheaper was the mop handle I found on the beach of San Miguel Island a few years ago. Although besmirched with blobs of tar, it was a wonderful find because i had tweaked my wrist in a recent tumble from my bicycle and I definitely didn't want to slip on the wet and slippery trails (it was winter). I scraped off the tar, drilled a hole for a cord loop, and that was my "on island" hiking staff for several years. The money saved went for all sorts of high minded endeavors, as you can well imagine.

For a little more money, I really like the collapsible three section poles. Properly tightened, they work quite well and go nicely into or on the pack when the going gets steep. But this is all just details - Any staff is better than no staff, any day...

Hikermore,

I have used pickup staff's many times but since much of my work has been in the High Arctic and above timberline, the availability of anything to use is poor. Thankfully a project budget helped buy the staff (I did pay well under the current price). I also have several non-collapsing staffs. My favorite is one made from Hickory from the Andrew Jackson Plantation. It has a very good feel and was improved with a stainless spike tip. It is just a pain to carry in a Super Cub. Poles don't work well for me because I almost always have something in one hand (Brunton, g pick, sampling tools, etc.) and it is inconvinient to always have to find a place for one of them. I also like the instant ability to change the length of my staff. If they work for you, they are lots easier to use, make you a quadraped, and are easier to store. I wish I could like them better. The good ones are fairly pricey themselves though.

Respectfully,

Jerry

I have used several fiberglass and aluminum poles that will take the full blow, usually from surveying and instrument support companies. I used a particularly sturdy fiberglass staff to hold up the magnatometer head on a system from Geometrics. The blow will not be as strong because of the weight of the staff. Similar to a PR-24 and a Tonfa, the sting is there but the damage is limited.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Sorry, I have nothing much to offer in the way of collapsible walking sticks for defense, except that personally I would never use one.

What I did make once, just as kind of an experiment for ocean kayaking, was a wooden pole with a long spike driven lengthwise into one end and the head of the nail ground off and then sharpened. It extended out the end of the pole about 6 inches. The spike itself was covered by a section of the pole that I had previously cut off to make the pole the length I wanted, and then I had drilled a hole slightly smaller in diameter lengthwise down through that section so that it would friction fit fairly tightly over the spike. This made the pole look pretty much like just a regular wooden pole except for a thin joint between the spike cover and the rest of the pole. If I wanted the spike exposed, all I had to do was slide the wooden section off the spike end.

This pole somehow got lost during a garage remodel, and I'm thinking of making another one. This "spear" wasn't nearly as light as the hard-drawn aluminum tubing with rubber cane tips on both ends that I typically use as a hiking staff, but that was no big deal because it was bungied to the top of my sea kayak. I'd definitely like to have a spiked hiking staff tho so will look into finding a narrower hardwood dowel soon.

BTW, the nail I used for the original spike was a very long galvanized nail used for fastening rain gutters on the eaves of a house. That's the longest "nail" I have ever run across and hopefully can locate a couple more of those.

I used a nail "spike" that was about 10in x 3/8in diameter. I see these are available at Lowes. I didn't use the entire length, just drilled a hole and pounded it in, then cut off the excess.

Every time in tune in to the news these days I hear of another fatal deer attack. Suckers are crazy

I've never heard of wolves,yotes, Elk or deer actually hurting anyone in all my travels. I don't think I ever will either. The odd Cougar maybe(small children)and even then very,very rare. If you are concerned about these animals on the trail(which you shouldn't be) then you are right, You may as well use a fly swatter.

For bears use bear spray. It goes back to the whole "right tool for the job" thing. I wouldn't consider using a hammer to saw wood anymore than I would seriously consider a walking stick suitable for defense against a bear. Have you ever seen how fast these things can move? In the time it took me to type this sentence that bear would already be halfway done eating you and your flimsey walking stick. Use the walking stick for walking instead.

There is only one thing in Canada that freaks me out in the wild, and that's accidently stumbling into a bee's nest and getting swarmed. That threat is actually real. I do worry while bowhunting that I may cross a mother bear and her cubs but I know that if I do there isn't a walking stick I can buy or make that will make a world of difference at that point....YMMV



If anyone was dumb enough to simply walk up to a dude holding a stick and grab him by the lapels he would deserve a thrashing. Seriously, who does that?

You are obviously not an old person with a cane. The cane is viewed as a sign of weakness, not a weapon. A cop friend of mine said the lapel grab is a common "tough guy" move. That's where I learned the technique.

If you say so. I am not dumb enough to grab a guy by his lapels if he has a cane in his hands. Especially a cranky old guy..... Seems like the smarter thing to do would be to try and grab the cane. But...that's neither here nor there as they say.

Are you actually serious??? Rare yes but attacks definitely occur. But my point in the context was that I would sooner be wary of an animal attack than a human attack on the trail which is far rarer. And I never ever even intimated that a hiking stick is an effective defense, I just said it was better than absolutely nothing as a last resort by poking or jabbing to provide distance between me and the animal.

There are a number of cited wolf kills in Canada but only one documented, 2005 north Sask - a pack killed a student away from the village of Points North; 2009 Nova Scotia, a interbred wolf/coyote pack killed a young gal out for a hike; 2000, my brother escaped a wolf pack while making his way back to his truck after a deer hunt.... the closest I've been to a lone wolf was about 25 feet away from my shelter (Vancouver Island).
Elk are the most dangerous animal during rut, if you think not, talk a walk in the woods in late September/October in Jasper Nat Park. Yearly incidents, sometimes on the golf course!
I had a cousin mauled by a sow grizzly a number of years ago and if weren't for passing motorists she would not have survived (North Vancouver).
A few years ago in Cypress Hills, I walked along a trail and remarked to myself "what a perfect habitat for cougar" not knowing that only a couple weeks before a cougar was shot on that very spot after scaring other hikers.
I was stalked by a female elk in Kananskis and it came within 15 feet of me before I gained the high ground and "menaced" (I didn't have a hiking staff at the time), this was on the same area where there were 4 grizzlies were known to habituate. I luckily missed a multiple grizzly attack just outside Yellowstone by only a couple of weeks at Soda Butte campground that I stayed at in 2010.
Came within 100 ft of a huge male elk just before rut season, my golfing partners were scared s***less.
I came face to face with a coyote protecting its fresh kill a couple of years ago in a surprise encounter (Grasslands Nat Park). It was seriously debating whether to defend it for flight. Thankfully he chose flight even though it had the high ground. And I know better than to get close to the free range bison in the park.
Deer, I haven't had an encounter but here is a provoked attack - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khKrd1RNy2U

Like I said, RARE but not unlikely for anyone spending time in the backcountry. If you have never heard of wolves, coyotes, elk or deer actually hurting anyone in all my travels, well then I must say [edited for content]. Get out more. Bear attacks are actually more rare than attacks from these animals.

You are right about bees, spiders and other insects, though. Statistically, they are the most likely cause of injuries or even death especially if you sensitive to the venom.

Absolutely.



People get hit by lightning while in the woods too, but I am not going to start hiking with a walking stick covered in mirrors just in case a lightning storm pops up.



And mine was that if you intend on gettin a walking stick, get one for walking and use something else to protect you from wildlife, I.E Bears (like bear spray) which is designed just for that reason. The question posed was if a collapsible walking stick was good enough for defence, My arguement is that against wild animals, no it isn't.



If that animal is a bear, then no...It isnt.



That is why I said this...





You realize, that out all this, you only mention one person getting hurt.(from a bear) That's why I said this..



Notice I didn't mention the word bear here once ? I KNOW bears will mess you up in quick form if you **** them off. That is why the thought of someone using a walking stick to defend against one was so unrealistic. I believe I was fairly clear in my post that bears are mean SOBs. The rest is just you mentioning about how you or someone else was afraid of something, not that anyone was hurt.

I can't believe you actually used that deer vid as an example....Wow dude.



Gee. I guess you got me there.



I'll Tell you my secret to avoid being scared s***less of Elk. Buy an expensive bow, then buy an Elk tag. I bet my last dollar you won't run across any in the woods till the seasons over.

I'll Tell you my secret to avoid being scared s***less of Elk. Buy an expensive bow, then buy an Elk tag. I bet my last dollar you won't run across any in the woods till the seasons over. wink
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Cost is relative,they arent that expensive for some quality bows,few hundred bucks can get some awesome bows.Boy would I love an Elk,thats a lot of meat!

As for defense ,a stick beats having nothing IMO.

Everyone needs a walking stick for different reasons. I need one for picking up trash with really big teeth. ;-)

Everything is relative.....

Cost.....

Experience.....

Perception ....(like the threats we perceive when out in the woods)

You are correct, an Elk isn't only a lot of meat, but a lot of TASTY meat. I did not get an Elk this year.

I don't think a folding one would work - but its mostly for show.

You can use any walking stick as a defense weapon.

Forget the caveman swing. Grasp the stick in both hands, and push it towards your target. Think thrust, not swing. Accompanied by a loud yell, this is effective on people and animals.

If it's collapsible, collapse it. Tends not to break this way.

Guaranteed, you shove the end of a stick, pointed or not, into somebody or something, they will not want to play after one or two pokes.

Thrust and holler.

You might want to look at this product:

http://www.amazon.com/Cascade-Designs-50...ck+staff+travel

It collapses/disassembles into a fairly small package.

It is a bit more heavy duty than most collapsible staffs. One end has a very durable carbide spike concealed by the screw-off cap and top has a sturdy walnut knob.

I've used one of these for years and, while it certainly wouldn't be my first choice as a defensive tool, I would pick it over any other collapsible staff I've seen.

I figure if you scream like a maniac while swinging a stick in the same maniacal fashion, it may deter the baddie. Being struck with anything should stop the advance for just that moment needed to get away. Besides, a frayed end of a carbon composite stick has lots of little sticky, pointy things.