Cane,walking stick for defense,any users?

Posted by: spuds

Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 11/30/12 10:13 PM

I'd be interested in hearing what Folks are using as a defensive stick,cane etc. Length,material,weight and 'carriability' if such a word.

I want strong,carry a wallop,and not look out of place in any setting for the most part (Gray Man).Heck,even usable as a support device (cane) wouldnt hurt.

All thoughts on it welcomed.

Couple things Ive seen are like these....
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Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 01:19 AM

Unless you're some kind of trained/experienced stick fighting martial artist, I would expect that the average "mature person" would have their cane quickly taken away from them and then they'd be beaten silly with it by a younger attacker.

An olderperson is not going to do well against a younger, stronger, more physically fit assailant even if they have something like a stick, or a knife, or pepper spray, or a stun gun. Face it - it sucks to get old.

If you are worried about being attacked, get a gun. Get advice on what to get by firearms knowledgeable friends. Get training on how to use it. Practice. With appropriate training and practice, even those advanced in years can be better equipped and have the upper edge over their assailant if they have a gun and know how to use it. No other weapon will give you this ability.

If you can't have a gun, either because where you live forbids it or you have some personal objection to it, just be resigned to losing the fight and being injured or dieing if you are attacked. Old folks don't beat up young punks, especially a gang of them, except in the movies.
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 01:42 AM

I'll take my chances with one of the laminated Boyd's walking sticks... if you live where rattan furniture is made, you might see if you can get a 50" piece of rattan... most of the escrima/kali Filipino martial arts sticks are short...when I walk at night, feral or aggressive dogs are more likely a problem, but I think I could break a tib/fib with mine....it's pretty hard to grab that low...
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 02:27 AM


The SAS Brolly can be quite handy. grin
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 02:36 AM

I use sticks for defense all the time ... esp. when overseas in rough neighborhoods. I would recommend that you get some training - but basic use of the stick is not complicated. The canes are also quite effective.

Thee's nothing wrong with getting yourself a long piece of rattan. it's what we use for stick fighting, and comes in a wide variety of lengths. Go onto the following Web site, and send the guy there (Nick) a quick email telling him what you want. Tell him Pete sent you. He's got rattan in just about every conceivable length and diameter (a lot more choices than what he's showing on the Web site). Something that's about 4-feet and about 1-1/4 inch diam should be fine for your purposes (dont get it too thick or it will be heavy).

I'd like to find that SAS umbrella ... but the last link from "Am Fear" was just a video. If there is such a thing as a durable UK umbrella - someone please post. Most modern umbrellas are just garbage and will fall apart after a couple of knocks - it's a sad commentary on the descent of the British Empire :-)

www.bloodsport.com

HAHAHA!!
Pete2
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 02:38 AM

I have employed a variety of walking sticks over the years - everything from sticks picked up along the trail to elaborate collapsible ski-type poles (fairly pricey). They are versatile, useful in all kinds of terrain and in many diverse situations. I have had a little training with batons and their potential for use in self defense, or even attack, is pretty obvious, depending upon what type you are carrying.

Want sturdy and stout? - get a replacement shovel handle from the hardware store, put a loop on the end, and you have a handy tool - quite adequate as a weapon and for other purposes.

Want cheap? Find a natural piece of wood of the right thickness and heft, modify it a bit and you will be in business. One of these was my very favorite until I lost it last year.

Want high tech and versatile? Spend $40 or up for a collapsible walking stick - brands include Leki or Komperdell, among others, and you will have a very nice tool that stows away easily, makes a nice tent pole, and is very useful for detecting snakes, moving brush, or as a camera monopod. Can be used for defense, of course, although it is a bit light.

Remember - jab, don't swing......
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 02:41 AM

What kind of environment will the user be in? A defensive weapon is something you have to carry on your body all the time, or you'll get assaulted on the day you decide to leave it home.

Also, with something like that, training is paramount. If you can find a good instructor, plan on 3-5 years before becoming effective for non-lethal encounters -- *if* you can get that good. After that level, you still have to be in regular training to keep your skills. If you're planning to fight a guy with a gun... Well, don't bring a stick to a gun fight.

You'll probably want to look into the law in your area to find out whether you can carry a stick around.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 05:50 AM

Originally Posted By: haertig


If you are worried about being attacked, get a gun. Get advice on what to get by firearms knowledgeable friends. just be resigned to losing the fight and being injured or dieing if you are attacked. Old folks don't beat up young punks, especially a gang of them, except in the movies.


Heartig,Im not looking for deadly force (thats another thread and situation),Im looking for deterrent value,and a good whack if that fails.Be it just one across the face/head,forearm,knee,it beats none.

For example...Im not going to shoot some jerk at the dogpark,or his idiot out of control dog.

I cant carry a gun here,nobody but LEO can.Legally,and as things stand now Im not about to go beyond legal.

Nor do I feel the need to be Bruce Lee,thats not what I intend.If thats the situation,Im going 'Bang Bang' in a life threatening situation.But that has to be truly life or death,not a jerk with an attitude.

That said,I think I can whack somebody just fine,including whacking a dog thats looking for or taking a bite on me or mine.Im not feeble or elderly.

Ive seen plenty people wield a bat in literature,but you cant be walking around with a bat either.Even a problem having one in the vehicle.

Bottom line,I'd prefer a club to not having a club,thats the plan.And having one that has a utilitarian perfectly legal use that MIGHT be used in a defensive manner.

Keep em coming,I like the idea of laminate.

As for the umbrella,if it was wetter here I could see the expense.....
---------------------------------------
The Unbreakable® Walking-Stick Umbrella

http://real-self-defense.com/unbreakable-umbrella/



Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 05:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Pete
I use sticks for defense all the time ... esp. when overseas in rough neighborhoods. I would recommend that you get some training - but basic use of the stick is not complicated. The canes are also quite effective.

EXACTLY....Just what Im thinking Pete.
=========================

Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
when I walk at night, feral or aggressive dogs are more likely a problem, but I think I could break a tib/fib with mine....it's pretty hard to grab that low...
Agreed yet again.

=========================

Originally Posted By: Bingley
What kind of environment will the user be in? A defensive weapon is something you have to carry on your body all the time, or you'll get assaulted on the day you decide to leave it home.
Agree yet again,the environment for using this is key to the effectiveness for the situation.
Posted by: ireckon

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 06:40 AM

I might carry a 9-iron or pitching wedge while taking a walk with my dog, and a golf ball in my pocket because it's fun to practice a bit at the park. I have no intention of using the club as a weapon...
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 06:59 AM

I'm worried for you, Spuds. Jerk with an attitude can quickly turn into jerk with a lawyer. I'd urge you get familiar with the self-defense law of your state/locality.

A stick can kill. I wouldn't use a stick to defend myself unless I am convinced that I might receive grievous bodily harm. In other words, if I will use a stick, I will use a gun. If not, I will do everything I can to get out of there. A hurt ego is better than a mountain of attorney bills or a prison sentence. Everyone I know (indirectly) who defended himself in what most would consider legitimate self-defense situations ended up in jail. Think about the consequences.

Secondly, you need training, even if you think "oh, I'll just scare him off." Usually people who carry visible weapons for deterrent value can't pull it off, because they don't project the right mindset. Predators will see that for what it is. Training will help you with the mindset. And if push comes to shove, you'll have some skills to back up your intent. No, you don't have to become a stickfighting master (I assume that's what you mean by Bruce Lee), but you'd be surprised how much training it takes to be effective.

I wouldn't recommend a stick for you yet.

It seems like you are thinking of a particular situation -- some guy's dog is bothering you? Are there other ways to solve this problem?
Posted by: wildman800

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 03:41 PM

I carry a 1LB(?), 6"Lx1"D walking stick that was a tap root. Tap roots are very hard wood.

1 friend uses a cane made of 1/4" piping with the handle curved over like a Shepherd's Staff.

I bought a friend a 5'Lx1 1/2"D walking stick.

Both friends use their cane/staff to protect themselves from dogs while on their neighborhood walks.
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 10:04 PM

spuds ... thanks for the link on the unbreakable umbrella. pretty interesting. it's not cheap - but I might look into it.

a stick is particularly useful for defense against animals ... mean dogs, stray critters that look sick or rabid.

a walking cane is unlikely to attract much attention from the police. there are rattan canes on the market - I just don't happen to own one so I can't swear as to how strong they are.

cheers,
Pete2
Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: spuds
Heartig,Im not looking for deadly force (thats another thread and situation),Im looking for deterrent value,and a good whack if that fails.

Just be aware, that if whack someone with a stick, then YOU have just deployed a weapon that is considered lethal force (whether or not you killed him). Your assailant would be justified in using lethal force back against you (in the eyes of the law, assuming he would claim self defense, which any smart criminal certainly would, true or not).

Situation: He comes up to you and demands your wallet. You respond by whacking him with your stick. He pulls out his gun and shoots you dead. He tells the police that he stopped to ask you the time and you began beating him for no reason, so he responded in self defense. You, of course, can't counter his account of what happened, because you are dead.

Don't think it doesn't or can't happen. Just a month ago my wife and I attended a course taught by a self defense / shooting defense lawyer. Real world legal cases were discussed. We covered all kinds of scenarios like the above example - discussing what would happen if you responded with your fists, a gun, or whatever. And what laws you'd have to watch out for - Murder, Manslaughter, Negligence, Assault (lots of different degress of that), Menacing, Brandishing (actually, there is no law about brandishing here in Colorado, but we discussed it relative to other states), etc.

We also discussed, "What it you are found innocent of <whatever> charge in court later?" Then eventually you will be free. You will have lost a lot of time. And you will have put out about $150,000 for a defense lawyer, court costs, etc. That's for criminal charges, if you were found innocent. A civil suit filed against you would be additional expense. And you'd be surrised to learn how many ways YOU could be considered the criminal when deploying any kind of weapon, be that a gun or a stick.

Bottom line: You better be the victor in a battle, you better call the police to report the incident before your assailant does, and you better keep your mouth shut, ... tightly.

I would recommend at least doing significant research, if not attending a class by a self defense attorney (if you can find one), before thinking "Well, I can just bash him with my stick - no harm in that."
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Bingley
I'm worried for you, Spuds. Jerk with an attitude can quickly turn into jerk with a lawyer. I'd urge you get familiar with the self-defense law of your state/locality.

Bingly,thank you for your concern.

Im big on avoiding confrontation.

Most jerks with an attitude,overly aggressive panhandlers and 4 legged varmints will quickly adjust attitude when they see you are prepared and capable of upping the ante,esp when it comes as a total surprise,puts their plans right out the window.Most arent the brightest bulbs out there,hence their situation in life. Most people are still rational enough to know there are easier targets and its not a hill to die on.

Most low level criminals are not Rambo,they are opportunistic cowards.Drug addicts,cockroaches that crawl out at dusk,that is the situation we sometimes find ourselves in... in situations as innocuous as walking to vehicle after shopping.

But if someone thinks they can assault without risk,they will.

Its for the lower threat deterrent Im looking for,and this will provide that as opposed to totally unarmed.

Just a part of escalating defensive measures,start small and work up the ladder,Im big on layered defensive actions.Options,and several of them is how we run our lives here.

Im prepared for getting out of dodge to fighting for life and have tools for each level,just another tool depending on what the situation dictates.

To fight is always last choice,but to be a victim totally defenseless is not an option.BTDT,its no longer an option I will entertain.
=========================

Originally Posted By: haertig
[quote=spuds] before thinking "Well, I can just bash him with my stick - no harm in that."
Nobody thinks that.

Victim,not happening to me,end of discussion,not happening,I have a wife and life to protect,and will.If I go down it will be fighting,not cowering begging for my life.
Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/01/12 11:28 PM

I was not saying you were thinking like that, it was intended to be a generic comment. My point being, if one is going to deploy something that is a lethal weapon in the eyes of the law, might as well deploy one that is most useful. A gun beats a stick, even though in the eyes of the law they are the same (when used as a weapon). But where you live does not allow you the better defensive option, so it's a moot point.
Posted by: lastchild

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 12:47 AM

Just remember that if you have to use it, keep hitting until there's only one side of the story wink

BTW, an Irish Blackthorn is a nice choice...
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 02:08 AM

One important aspect of deterence is your overall confidence with any weapon you carry. if you really look like you know what you're doing and you've got the potential to inflict serious harm - most criminals are not going to go for it. I agree with the idea that they are generally looking for an "easy mark".
Posted by: LED

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 02:09 AM

You may be better of with a taser. Those are legal and my be carried concealed in CA.
Posted by: Nomad

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 03:22 AM

Check out


http://www.canemasters.com


A cane is a very good defense tool that can be carried everywhere.
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 06:06 AM

by the way ... in terms of deterrence on the street and effective against some animals - a good stun gun is also a possibility. check the Barracuda BC-37 stun gun ... these babies are head-and-shoulders above the competition. If you are being threatened by punks who look like they want to use their fists - just take it out and give them a display of the electrical flash. It's enough to make anyone think twice about tangling with you. If you do actually use it on people, I would recommend contact with the extremities, or possibly the back or hips (not head, neck or chest). These things pack a wallop.

cheers,
Pete2
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 06:19 AM

Spuds, do you know what to do if someone grabs your stick during the course of the attack? Or what if he grabs your hand? How about he grabs around you in a bear hug from behind? The stick is a blunt weapon. You'll need to know how to grapple with it, to retain your stick against someone trying to take it away.

Can you strike/jab accurately? Do you know where to or not to strike/jab? Where did you get this knowledge from? Most people, even after some training, aren't that accurate. How will you prepare for the implication of this (i.e., adapting to a failed defense)?

I'm with the people who point out that striking with a stick would/could be regarded as lethal in the eye of the law. Along the same line, you can't carry a stick with the intention of "scaring them away." The people who get a gun and think, "I'll never shoot it -- I'll just scare the bad guys away," are the ones who get their guns taken away by the bad guys. You have to have the ability and the mindset to backup the threat, and you have to project your confidence and courage. And this has to be real confidence and real courage. The usual way to get this is through training.

I'm relieved that you're going to look into the legal aspects of self-defense.

Please ignore advice that you should keep hitting until there is only one side of the story.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 01:35 PM

There's an article about walking sticks this month in "Backwoodsman" magazine. (www.backwoodsmanmag.com)

The author talks about different building materials but, when it comes to defensive uses, he refers to fending off small dogs and ferretting out snakes on the trail, so it might not be what you're looking for, Spuds.
Posted by: comms

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
I have employed a variety of walking sticks over the years - everything from sticks picked up along the trail to elaborate collapsible ski-type poles (fairly pricey). They are versatile, useful in all kinds of terrain and in many diverse situations. I have had a little training with batons and their potential for use in self defense, or even attack, is pretty obvious, depending upon what type you are carrying.

Want sturdy and stout? - get a replacement shovel handle from the hardware store, put a loop on the end, and you have a handy tool - quite adequate as a weapon and for other purposes.

Want cheap? Find a natural piece of wood of the right thickness and heft, modify it a bit and you will be in business. One of these was my very favorite until I lost it last year.

Want high tech and versatile? Spend $40 or up for a collapsible walking stick - brands include Leki or Komperdell, among others, and you will have a very nice tool that stows away easily, makes a nice tent pole, and is very useful for detecting snakes, moving brush, or as a camera monopod. Can be used for defense, of course, although it is a bit light.

Remember - jab, don't swing......


Agreed. id add that a pole et al. is just a tool to keep someone/something away. A true deterrent requires showing it is a threat. if your worried, carry pepper spray or stun gun as well
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 05:16 PM

In America ... if you display and use any kind of (potentially) deadly weapon then you are likely to face some sort of legal consequences. I think the advice we're trying to give is intended to save your life. But your property could belong to the lawyers afterwards, no matter what happens :-)

If you display a deadly weapon, esp. a gun or a knife, the police call this "brandishing". It's against the law ... at least in some places (I'm no expert on this). I imagine that if you swung a baseball bat around recklessly that would also qualify. In spite of this problem, my practical attitude is that a confident display of a weapon can have a strong deterrent effect. I'm not talking about firing a gun or slashing someone with a knife (or hitting with a stick) - but holding the weapon with confidence and poise. If you show that you know how to use it, you demonstrate mental confidence, and your would-be attackers think they could get seriously hurt, then they may re-consider. There are no perfect guarantees, but criminals are not idiots. The essential thing is to be very confident - which usually won't happen without a lot of training and experience with the weapon you've chosen.

However, if you actually hit someone (or cut them and draw blood) then you can trigger the flight-or-fight response. It's possible they could run - but also possible they might strike back out of fear or rage. So my basic philosophy is that "if blood is drawn - be prepared for the worst".

Pete2
Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Pete
... but criminals are not idiots ...

Actually, most are. But we'll say they are only "stupid" and not "felony stupid" for this discussion. smile
Posted by: wileycoyote

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 07:13 PM

i have bad feet so carry a cane at times when i can't carry a firearm or edged tool.

my choice is the Cold Steel Micarta Head City Stick

Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Pete
If you display a deadly weapon, esp. a gun or a knife, the police call this "brandishing".

Yes, you do not want to "brandish" a weapon (waving it around in the air, etc.) You want to "menace" with it. Which is perfectly OK if you are being assaulted and are defending yourself. Don't point you gun in the air, and for sure don't fire a warning shot (that is "negligence"). Aiming "to wound" can get you roasted for assault, even if it was you who were initially attacked - what might be said is that "So you're saying, Mr. victim, that the situation was not bad enough for you to defend yourself, so you only shot for the leg?" You don't want that. Instead draw it and take it to the "low ready" position. If the assailant advances, raise the gun to a nice center-mass aimed position and activate the laser if so equipped. This would be called "menacing" if you initiated the encounter. However, if you are responding to a serious assault against you, it is fine. NOTE: I am talking about Colorado law here - check with an attorney about your particular state laws, which may be different. Once the threat leaves, call the police immediately and report what happened with a brief to-the-point description. Don't ramble on. You want to say something like "I was accosted by a man with a knife demanding my wallet. I drew my firearm in self defense. He ran away. I was the victim. I will cooperate with your investigation after I have spoken with my lawyer." Then shut up and wait for the police to arrive. Say nothing more than you have already said. What you DON'T want to happen is for your assailant to call the police FIRST, and report that you pulled a gun on him out of the blue and he ran away in fear of his life.

One important point to remember, "Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you." What they don't mention in reading you your rights is that nothing you say can be used FOR you. That is called "hearsay" and won't be allowed in court. There are a few limited exceptions to this, but they are very limited (called "spontaneous emotional utterances" - something like that - I forgot exactly what the attorney who taught our class called them). So blabbing your mouth off to the police is NEVER a good idea. It can NEVER help you. They can't make things "easier on you" if you cooperate as they might promise. Those kind of negotiatons are later, when lawyers and DA's are involved, not the police. It is MUCH better to emotionally state your position in front of witnesses before the police arrive. A few utterances like, "Did you see that? He pulled a knife on me! I was scared to death. I thought he was going to kill me! Is anybody hurt? Did someone call the police?" If YOU say things like this to the police after you've calmed down and are describing the situation, it won't make it to court ("hearsay"). But if witnesses report you saying these things, that is admissable. Something good to know.

Everything I have said above, while somewhat focused on firearms, applies equally to anything considered a lethal weapon. Including a stick used as a weapon.

I learned a lot in that course taught by the self defense / shooting defense attorney! Nothing beats learning this stuff directly from someone who really knows. Don't depend on "hearsay" you find on the internet (including my post here, although I've made it as accurate as possible based on what I learned from the attorney).
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/02/12 07:32 PM

wiley - the Cold Steel sticks are nice choices.
Anything you buy from them is pretty rugged.


haertig - very good points on heresay and evidence. thanks for sharing.

spuds - all of this goes back to your original post. the issue for you is what kind of situation you are trying to defend against, and what type of protection do you feel comfortable using? then get good professional training and build up solid experience with your weapon of choice. but based on your original question ... a cane might be a good choice. and you can learn those skills from a martial arts instructor who specializes in escrima or kali from the Philippines.

Pete2
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 01:09 AM

Originally Posted By: haertig
I was not saying you were thinking like that, it was intended to be a generic comment. My point being, if one is going to deploy something that is a lethal weapon in the eyes of the law, might as well deploy one that is most useful. A gun beats a stick, even though in the eyes of the law they are the same (when used as a weapon). But where you live does not allow you the better defensive option, so it's a moot point.


We were robbery/kidnap victims,you know where that leads,murder victims. We got out ONLY because the younger of the 2 balked when he smartened up almost instantly and realized he wasnt cut out for that.The old guy was perfectly willing to take it to the extreme.

When one balked,they fled.

So tell me,are you going to be concerned you may be sued? I coulda taken out the kid when he got the drop on us and the old man I doubt would have appeared at all.And if he had,he was toast at that point,double-aught toast.

So you see,its where you are coming from,where youve been,and where you are willing to go.

Money is nothing,and can be replaced if we lost it all post battle.Life cant be brought back.

No victim,nope,not again.And get this,we werent unarmed either,we were dropped on.I dont walk a campground carrying a shotgun,I cant legal carry a concealed gun.

So thats my point.You can cower and die,or you can fight and determine your fate to an extent.You never leave the scene with a perp,that has a nasty outcome of almost always being death.

A club,oh yeah,woulda been just the ticket to get the space covered I needed,not more than 20 feet,to get more than equal.2 clubs even better,the Mrs is known as Ninja B among our friends,I kid you not.Bear spray woulda done the trick too,we never camp without it now at hands reach. So sue me scum. From your cell.

Reviewing this,she said she was completely emotionally prepared to shoot em if she had to,had been FORCED to.... and regrets the weapon to do so wasnt available..for deterrence or more,their choice.

All we got was lucky as all get out we didnt die,I thank God,YMMV,but its all it was in my opinion.
==================================
In spite of this problem, my practical attitude is that a confident display of a weapon can have a strong deterrent effect. I'm not talking about firing a gun or slashing someone with a knife (or hitting with a stick) - but holding the weapon with confidence and poise. If you show that you know how to use it, you demonstrate mental confidence, and your would-be attackers think they could get seriously hurt, then they may re-consider.

Absolutely,I agree 100% that deterrence works ( It has for me) when you do just what youve posted,I dont scare now,I get MAD and it shows. Im not your scaredy cat victim,no no,not at all,Ive learned better.
==============================

Great discussion folks,and fine advice,all of it.I understand what you say Heartig on the legal aspect,and what to say and more importantly NOT to say.Ive read up/researched plenty on it to not shoot my mouth off.LEO arent your friends at that point,your lawyer is.

Agree very much on some training,we have just the guy we could use too,the grandsons martial arts school(Oh yeah,every time he visits he has class time,guess why,LOL!) has all kinds of training and will customize to your needs,and that will be utilized for a few skills,points,handling.Had a little in the military,basic skills arent that tough as Pete knows.

Im thinking a cane type and a stick both have rather specific uses,stick for walking,cane for suburban,may as well get both,we are talking little cost really.

Posted by: clearwater

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 02:33 AM

In California carrying a stick, golf club, baseball bat, knife, etc for use as a weapon can get you a felony charge. A concealed handgun, if it is registered, would be only
a misdemeanor in the same instance (assuming other laws are not broken).

IANAL, Know the laws where you live.
Posted by: LED

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 02:35 AM

Originally Posted By: spuds


No victim,nope,not again.And get this,we werent unarmed either,we were dropped on.I dont walk a campground carrying a shotgun,I cant legal carry a concealed gun.


Most counties in CA are "may issue" if I'm not mistaken, so a carry permit is possible, even if not very likely. Depends where you live. Also, IIRC a campsite is considered your temporary residence so you may LOC (loaded open carry) at your campsite. Don't think this applies to state parks. Not sure about concealed carry in camp.

Of course I'm not encouraging you to carry firearms, just letting you know there are options you may not have considered.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 02:43 AM

I am not an attorney, and I don't play one on the Internet. I strongly advice you one and all to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction if you plan to ever have or carry a weapon of any kind for self-defense.

Get training on any weapon you may own. Practice with it safely and regularly.

Pointing a gun at a human being is considered deadly force in all jurisdictions I know of. Don't point a gun at a person unless you are legally and morally able to do so. Never threaten anyone with a gun unless you are willing to shoot immediately.
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: spuds
We were robbery/kidnap victims,you know where that leads,murder victims. We got out ONLY because the younger of the 2 balked when he smartened up almost instantly and realized he wasnt cut out for that.The old guy was perfectly willing to take it to the extreme.


I'm rather perplexed, because you seem to change the situation you want to prepare for, and it seems you change the situation to argue against the advice people are trying to give you, just so that you can carry the stick like you wanted. Robber/potential murderer is not "guy with an attitude."

We can be more helpful to you if you spell out exactly what you're preparing for, and then stick to it. For the situation you describe, I'd recommend the most powerful weapon you can legally carry, and then get a lot of regular training with it, so you can actually respond to extreme force with extreme force. Arm your vehicles. With this level of threat, you're not talking about scaring them off anymore.

If you just want to have a fancy stick or maybe a "death-dealing" stick, there are probably forums where people know the products better.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 09:23 AM

Bingley....OK,situations asked for and situations where it may be used were given. From low to high threat I see uses.

Take it or leave it,Im not here to argue why,Im doing it.I dont need to justify to your satisfaction WHY,nor 'stick to a level,etc'.I am getting a cane/stick, I am not being talked out of defending self and family, Im not here to be talked out of it,thank you very much.Thats not happening.

When youve faced the threat,BTDT,talk to me on the why fors,until then,what you think I NEED doesnt really matter,thats your take,not mine. So dont get mad when your advice isnt relevant to my situation.
=======================
Thank you all for models you carry.Most helpful.I see 2 choices Im most impressed by,that being the stick and the walking stick cane style,will get both.
=======================

No,they dont issue carry in SoCal,extremely rare,esp LA,Orange or San Berdo (per websites on carry),a few places in Northern state do routinely.Open carry has just been outlawed in state,at least most recent Ive seen on subject,if its been stopped let me know.Sounds like a risky proposition at best,I saw the thing on possession in state parks,not sure that means open carry......
switchblade case makes the idea sound a bit risky.And it certainly isnt legal in Rancho Cucamonga,San Berdo,Victorville,etc, the cane is,hence the thread,but thank you for the comment and taking time to reply,much appreciated for sure.

BTW,what do you think of the San Berdo BK,its gotten very scarey there,Staters/Cardenas and such have really beefed up the private guards,doubling and tripling presence.Trust me,get outta town by dusk,the criminal Gang Bang element just pours out and even waaaay more visible in daylight since BK,cops cut drastically.Its almost like an Armageddon movie.Welcome to Compton.


What is Open Carry?

Open Carry (OC) refers to the act of carrying a firearm in plain sight.

Is Open Carry Legal in California?

Open carry of loaded firearms has been illegal in California since Governor Reagan banned it back in 1968. With the recent passage and signing of AB 144 by Governor Brown, Open Carry of unloaded handguns is no longer legal in most of California effective Jan 1, 2012. As such, most of this FAQ was obsolete and has been deleted.

Is it true that carrying both a gun and ammo is legally considered loaded?

No. If one carries a firearm with the intent to commit a felony, then it is true. But for the typical law-abiding gun-owner, it is not true. PC 12031 and People v. Clark are all that apply. For more information on the topic, read Defining Loaded in California.

Where can I legally Open Carry?

Loaded Open Carry is legal in your home, temporary residence or campsite (unless otherwise prohibited), place of business, private property, and in areas of unincorporated territory where shooting is not prohibited, including most areas within National Forest and BLM lands.

With AB 144 becoming law, Unloaded Open Carry of handguns is now illegal except where loaded open carry is legal, and also in public lands (National Forests, BLM, etc.) where firearms are permitted.

====================
I am not an attorney, and I don't play one on the Internet. I strongly advice you one and all to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction if you plan to ever have or carry a weapon of any kind for self-defense.

Get training on any weapon you may own. Practice with it safely and regularly.

Pointing a gun at a human being is considered deadly force in all jurisdictions I know of. Don't point a gun at a person unless you are legally and morally able to do so. Never threaten anyone with a gun unless you are willing to shoot immediately.

----------
YUP! I will add to not point a gun unless you are prepared to go straight to jail here,including putting a laser sight on someone here is straight to jail.
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 10:43 AM

Originally Posted By: spuds
Bingley....OK,situations asked for and situations where it may be used were given. From low to high threat I see uses.

Take it or leave it,Im not here to argue why,Im doing it.I dont need to justify to your satisfaction WHY,nor 'stick to a level,etc'.I am getting a cane/stick, I am not being talked out of defending self and family, Im not here to be talked out of it,thank you very much.Thats not happening.

When youve faced the threat,BTDT,talk to me on the why fors,until then,what you think I NEED doesnt really matter,thats your take,not mine. So dont get mad when your advice isnt relevant to my situation.


What makes you think that other people here haven't faced similar or worse situations?

Let me be blunt, because I am trying to help you. I don't want you to get hurt, and I can't help if I mince words. Even with a stick, you are still easy prey. I think you want to carry the stick for psychological reassurance, not for actual use. If you are really worried about serious threat to life and limb, about fighting for your life, you'd be training very hard. You're likely to face armed enemies, and you'd need every advantage possible. And then you'll get, like, a 2% chance of survival. With a stick and no training? We're looking at 0%. You don't know how to fight, and getting a stick isn't going to change that. Training is always more important than equipment.

Besides, the weapon you choose depends on your training. There are lots of "combat knives." Many proven styles of knife fighting would not use any of them, because their design is wrong for what they do. There are lots of "fighting sticks." Which one is suitable? The short, light rattan ones? The heavy six-footer? The one weighted on one end? The crooked one with what looks like a hook? That depends on your training, and you have none.

Maybe you are not facing a real threat. I hope that's the case. I hope you're just scared for no good reason. The right mindset goes a lot further than a stick, and you don't have it.

I hope this wakes you up. Take care of yourself. Be safe.
Posted by: Dagny

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 02:10 PM


For after-dark dog walks in DC lately, I've been carrying a Leki walking staff. I do so with two threats in mind: punks and loose dogs.

My dog is the best mugger deterrent so the staff is more likely to be deployed to protect her from a dog loose in the park or that gets away from its owner on a sidewalk.

If a mugger is not deterred by my dog and makes an aggressive move toward her, I will not give a rat's [blank] about theoretical legal jeopardy. You can hardly spit around here without hitting a lawyer and I'll have no trouble finding a good one to defend myself or counter-sue.

I "brandish" this "weapon" every night in my fairly heavily-patrolled neighborhood. And if I'm standing around talking to someone - such as a police officer - it is comfortable to lean on and people just assume I've a bum knee or ankle.

Over a decade ago, I was attacked on a dark November evening while walking home from work. It was an attempted smash-and-grab but I heard him approaching in time (and turned to see his black neoprene ski mask) to brace myself. I held on to my purse, yelled for help and he was chased down the street.

Unarmed smash-and-grab is the primary mugging m.o. in my neighborhood. If someone points a gun at me, they are welcome to my purse or i-Phone (the #1 target of muggers here these days).

http://www.rei.com/product/830442/leki-wanderfreund-antishock-walking-staff


This Leki staff is essentially a collapsible cane -- perfectly legal and something I have a history of using for hiking and when I've had a knee injury.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 03:54 PM

Over a decade ago, I was attacked on a dark November evening while walking home from work.
========================

10-4 Dagney,with you 100%.Only takes once to make a believer outta ya.For others,it only takes open eyes.

I like that one,very gray man for the the gray man.With the surgical scars to back up the use,yup,love it.

Anybody know if collapsible cane illegal in Calif? I cant see where it is...then again that cane is more an adjustable length?

Only problem Im having is in choice,there are all kinds of nice options.Looks like its like trying to buy electronics,at a point you overload.

Im just going to have to make a decision before I get shopping fatigue,thinking I want a plastic or metal,and I really like Les's walking stick.
============================
CALIFORNIA
- Tracer Ammunition
- Lock Pick Sets
- Night Vision Scope
- Undetectable Knives
- Cane Swords
- Throwing Stars/Shuriken
- Blow Guns
- Pepper Spray over 2.5oz.
- Airsoft
- Fuel Cans
- Baton
- Nightsticks
- Billy Clubs
- Blackjacks
- Metal Knuckles
- Slaps
- Spring-Assisted Knives
- Daggers
- Practice or Metal Replica Grenades
- Multi-Burst Trigger Activator
- Magazines over 10 rounds
- Folding Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Thumbhole Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Telescoping Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Protruding Pistol Grip on Rifles and Semi-Auto Shotguns
- Flash Suppressor/Hider and Muzzle Brakes
- Forward pistol grip
- Grenade or Flare Launcher
- Detachable SKS magazines
Posted by: haertig

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: spuds

============================
CALIFORNIA
- Tracer Ammunition
- Lock Pick Sets
- Night Vision Scope
- Undetectable Knives
- Cane Swords
- Throwing Stars/Shuriken
- Blow Guns
- Pepper Spray over 2.5oz.
- Airsoft
- Fuel Cans
- Baton
- Nightsticks
- Billy Clubs
- Blackjacks
- Metal Knuckles
- Slaps
- Spring-Assisted Knives
- Daggers
- Practice or Metal Replica Grenades
- Multi-Burst Trigger Activator
- Magazines over 10 rounds
- Folding Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Thumbhole Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Telescoping Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Protruding Pistol Grip on Rifles and Semi-Auto Shotguns
- Flash Suppressor/Hider and Muzzle Brakes
- Forward pistol grip
- Grenade or Flare Launcher
- Detachable SKS magazines

I assume those are the things that are banned in California? Holy Smoley! You better buy that stick pretty soon, before they get banned too. A stick seems like about your ONLY option at present. Given that sad state of affairs, yeah, get yourself a stick and do what you can with it. I would also suggest traveling in large groups, and get everybody a stick. That's about all you can do at this point. I knew California was bad, but I didn't know it had gotten THAT bad. Wow. You really don't have any options. I would be worried that your stick might fall into the currently banned category of "baton" or "billy club" however.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 05:16 PM

Heck yeah Heartig,let me put in the states link,its crazy what you cant do! But if its legal,we go there,you betcha,they havent got around to attacking archery yet,and slingshots and air guns actually banned in a few jurisdictions,crazy!

I definitely want to stay on the legal side of the law.

http://www.outdoorbunker.com/v/restrictions.htm
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 05:37 PM

One the lighter side,Mrs and Mrs Spuds theme song....Bust Your Kneecaps

Love that smile at 2:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlDGFrP4NgI
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Pete
by the way ... in terms of deterrence on the street and effective against some animals - a good stun gun is also a possibility. check the Barracuda BC-37 stun gun ... these babies are head-and-shoulders above the competition. If you are being threatened by punks who look like they want to use their fists - just take it out and give them a display of the electrical flash. It's enough to make anyone think twice about tangling with you. If you do actually use it on people, I would recommend contact with the extremities, or possibly the back or hips (not head, neck or chest). These things pack a wallop.

cheers,
Pete2


Done x 2,thanks Pete.No tax or shipping,nice.

https://www.smartstun.com/Barracuda-BC-37-37-Million-Volt-Stun-Gun_p_107.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbeC6Yl8aes

There is another of a dummy getting hit with it,due to language I wont link that.Knocked the snot outta him.


Added some pepper spray gel 2 oz for cali legal (updated).Gonna be working on the Batman utility belts I foresee.

Will pick out the canes tonight.

Thanks all for the help,sincerely.
Posted by: clearwater

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 06:10 PM

If you have to use your cane as a weapon, then it will be considered such by
CA authorities. Just like pointing a gun, you will need to be justified in doing
so.
Posted by: JBMat

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 09:06 PM

The best defense is a good offense. Don't look or act like a victim. Head up, on a swivel, know your surroundings, be ready to act, not react.

I work in a crappy part of town, literally, as the homeless have used our doorstep as a latrine before. Before I get out of my truck at 0630ish, I scan the area. It's not real well lit, but enough. I keep my keys in my hand as I approach the shop door. Ever been raked by keys, hurts a lot. I do have a knife on me, a Leatherman Wingman (Xmas gift, sister, last year) which I use at work a lot.

The scan is the important part. I start it when I get off the main road and continue up to and through my building entrance.

Should I see something I don't like, 911 is but a call away, and the police station is just up the street.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/03/12 11:20 PM

Cool,for sticks ordered these,95.51 for 2 delivered.


This walking stick features a high-impact, non-skid rubber tip and a leather wristband.

Weighs 19 Oz. Length is 48 3/4".

for me

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/WALKING-STIK-SHADY-CAMO-F-p/110-002.htm




For Mrs

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/WALKING-STIK-DANDELION-F-p/110-010.htm



========================
Average Customer Review: 4.5 of 5 | Total Reviews: 13 Write a review.

Great Stick! April 30, 2012
Reviewer: Rick Rooks from Bynum, TX United States
Very nice walking stick that looks great! I would like to see you make a cane that I could use when loading cattle.


Walking Stick, Shady Camo April 30, 2012
Reviewer: Joseph Krezelak from Bonney Lake, WA United States
Another great product from Boyd's. Sturdy, well fitting and looks great. I have had a lot of positive comments from everyone who has looked at it and hefted it to verify that the weight is not too heavy. I am probably going to order another one or two before hiking and hunting season. Keep up the great work and product line.


Walking Stick April 30, 2012
Reviewer: Craig Kingsbury from Mission Viejo, CA United States
What a superior product! The finish and craftsmanship far exceed any other product I have seen.The order handling and shipment were extremely fast. The walking stick is beautiful and I am already getting some comments as to where did I find the product.

Keep up the excellent work.


Very nice, but.... March 26, 2012
Reviewer: Raymond Cayford from Columbia Falls, MT United States
Very nice product, but as stated in other reviews, it's too short. I'm 5' 8 1/2" and it needs to be longer. 12" wouldn't hurt so the customer could cut to length.
Also a little taper from the bottom of the twist to the end would look awesome. I would buy another only if Boyds' were to listen to the customer requests.


WALKING STICK SHADY CAMO December 30, 2011
Reviewer: Mike Hoffa from Ripon, CA United States
Arrived in perfect condition and on time. The walking stick was much stronger and better looking than the pictures show. Friends have commented on how nice it is. In fact, My wife and I liked it so much we ordered 4 more for future gifts. Truly works of art! I think I will steal one for myself.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 02:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Nomad
Check out
http://www.canemasters.com
A cane is a very good defense tool that can be carried everywhere.

Nomad,what about this? We are looking for something for a fancy situation,all the rest as discussed,can you vouch to this?



http://www.canemasters.com/index.php?mai...6ad7b4900734e9e
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By: wileycoyote
i have bad feet so carry a cane at times when i can't carry a firearm or edged tool.

my choice is the Cold Steel Micarta Head City Stick

WileyC,what is the craftmanship and quality of this piece,suitable for more formal dress?
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Dagny

http://www.rei.com/product/830442/leki-wanderfreund-antishock-walking-staff
This Leki staff is essentially a collapsible cane -- perfectly legal and something I have a history of using for hiking and when I've had a knee injury.

Dagny,is this cane real strong?Mrs is concerned if it can take a wallop.I tend to like this one....

Posted by: Dagny

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 07:03 AM

Originally Posted By: spuds
Originally Posted By: Dagny

http://www.rei.com/product/830442/leki-wanderfreund-antishock-walking-staff
This Leki staff is essentially a collapsible cane -- perfectly legal and something I have a history of using for hiking and when I've had a knee injury.

Dagny,is this cane real strong?Mrs is concerned if it can take a wallop.I tend to like this one....



I've never hit anything or anyone with it so have a limited perspective on its capabilities. It holds me up when I lean heavily on it.

The pointy end of the handle could be painful....
Posted by: nursemike

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 01:36 PM

I carry a walking stick cuz my knee and spinal defects cause me to stumble a lot. A standard drug-store cane gets through airport screening effortlessly, but an rei collapsible stick seems to look more menacing and has elicited some grumpy interrogation. Seems to vary widely with the age and officiousness of the security personnel, unless there is a recent BOLO out on fat old bald gimpy guys.
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 03:55 PM

spuds - the advantage of a one-piece cane is that it will not collapse unexpectedly when you need it. you can go to the Cold Steel web site (www.coldsteel.com) and watch their product videos. They have demonstration videos for almost every product they sell. All their items can take a real pounding - they don't break after one or two hits. They've got canes with different weights - so you can choose which will work the best for you.

Pete2
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/04/12 06:41 PM

Yes Pete,looking at City Stick with stainless knob,saw those vids,thats a tough stick,so looking like one of those,still leaves one more to get.

Guess I will pass on the Liek.

BTW,is there any reason I would need the lighter stick short of wt when carrying?
Posted by: jshannon

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 01:23 AM

Folding cane ; )

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7983641
Posted by: Nomad

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 05:24 AM

Originally Posted By: spuds
[quote=Nomad]Check out
http://www.canemasters.com
A cane is a very good defense tool that can be carried everywhere.

Nomad,what about this? We are looking for something for a fancy situation,all the rest as discussed,can you vouch to this?

/quote]
Nope. I prefer the standard hooked cane. Lots of reasons, camouflage being one of them. The hook is very useful against an adversary. There are a lot of ways to carry a weapon, but in your hand is the best. Nobody has ever questioned my cane. Of course I am 73, which probably helps.

Watch some of the YouTube videos to get an idea of technique. Simple stuff that is easy to practice.

I also have been badly beaten. It does change ones attitude about self protection. That said, I usually have a .380 in my pocket. However the pistol is not something to use in all circumstances. The cane provides a measured response.
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 06:14 AM

nomad ... good series of choices.

spuds ... the City Stick is a very nice looking "implement of destruction". HAHAHA! Looks fancier, and probably would work quite well as a cane for a well-dressed man. They do have a very light stick which came out recently (can't remember what it's called). The light stick would respond faster if you were in some sort of manic battle against a pack of Ninjas - HAHAHA! Just kidding ... lighter weapons travel faster and are capable weapons in the hands of people with a lot of training (speed and accuracy prevail over brute force). But the basic City Stick is a very good choice for dealing with all contingencies. I'd rather have a City Stick if dealing with a mean dog.

When you get these sticks I will tell you how to start your training and test them out.

cheers,
Pete2
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 06:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Nomad
[quote=spuds]Watch some of the YouTube videos to get an idea of technique. Simple stuff that is easy to practice.


Please do not do this. Inexperienced people cannot always judge what works and what doesn't. They also don't know how to train realistically *and* safely. Find a good instructor, please.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 12:55 PM

Thanks,I will get back to you today,power outage has me buying some coleman parts and batteries right now.
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 01:42 PM

Spuds... if you hit the lottery... just for grins, look up one of the Chris Reeve walking sticks...made from blemished titanium hip replacement balls...
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/05/12 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
Spuds... if you hit the lottery... just for grins, look up one of the Chris Reeve walking sticks...made from blemished titanium hip replacement balls...
Now that stick says something,something skeery for sure! Kinda hits me like displaying body parts on a cane.....

Probably NOT gray man cool ,TSA compliant,hahahaha.I can only imagine the looks!!! That is one seriously mean looking stick!





I'll get those sticks ordered tonight,get the regular cane you advise Nomad,thanks much,and a city stick.

Posted by: Nomad

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/06/12 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Bingley
Originally Posted By: Nomad
[quote=spuds]Watch some of the YouTube videos to get an idea of technique. Simple stuff that is easy to practice.


Please do not do this. Inexperienced people cannot always judge what works and what doesn't. They also don't know how to train realistically *and* safely. Find a good instructor, please.


Sorry, I did not mean it as a training course, just to illustrate the concept. Of course good personal instruction is required. But the movements are simple and mostly do not require physical strength. Elders (like myself) and folks with disabilities can be very effective.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/06/12 06:59 AM

OK,IM done


Got this in Hickory,I will finish in a red stain,52.32 delivered from Canemasters





Got this at Wally World,63.45 (97 cents shipping) They had lowest price by far

Posted by: Arney

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/06/12 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: spuds
OK,IM done

Spuds, I hope no one ever thinks your new walking stick looks like a samurai sword! Good grief, check out this incident from the UK.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/06/12 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: spuds
OK,IM done

Spuds, I hope no one ever thinks your new walking stick looks like a samurai sword! Good grief, check out this incident from the UK.
Good Grief is right!Crazy world isnt it?
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 07:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Nomad
Sorry, I did not mean it as a training course, just to illustrate the concept. Of course good personal instruction is required. But the movements are simple and mostly do not require physical strength. Elders (like myself) and folks with disabilities can be very effective.


Generally, good martial arts is about moving your own body well. In other words, it's more like dancing than strongman competitions. The only problem is that you'll have to time your movements to an opponent (or even opponents if you get really unlucky), adapt to his movements and other conditions of the fight, etc.

Looking at some of the sticks mentioned in this thread, I think I can safely tell you that, with 15 years of martial arts training (including weapons of various sorts, and 5 years just on sticks), I wouldn't use some of them. Their shape is definitely wrong for what I need to do. The weight distribution may be weird. The geometry may be wrong. Will I use them in a pinch? Sure, but they wouldn't be my day-to-day carry. So this exercise of picking a stick before learning to use it seems to me an example of putting the cart before the horse.

But, hey, it's just money. After you get one of these sticks, you take some lessons and discover the stick you have isn't good for how you'd like to fight, then you can get a new stick, one that fits your techniques.

If I want to carry a walking stick, I'd probably custom order something to my specs from a woodworker. Would that be expensive? Yes. But if you're putting trust in this stick, how much is your life worth?
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Bingley

If I want to carry a walking stick, I'd probably custom order something to my specs from a woodworker. Would that be expensive? Yes. But if you're putting trust in this stick, how much is your life worth?


I believe we are over thinking this. We all have at least one knife, right? Sally forth, find a piece of wood (or maybe even appropriate plastic), and carve, shape, and whittle said piece of wood until it achieves perfection.

"At least one knife"?? I don't think you can even sign on to this forum unless you can provide firm evidence of ownership of at least a dozen knives, swords, machetes, or other sharp pieces.
Posted by: Pete

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 04:45 PM

spuds - both those items will work fine. You now need to train with them. Send me a PM.

Pete2
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: Bingley

If I want to carry a walking stick, I'd probably custom order something to my specs from a woodworker. Would that be expensive? Yes. But if you're putting trust in this stick, how much is your life worth?


I believe we are over thinking this. We all have at least one knife, right? Sally forth, find a piece of wood (or maybe even appropriate plastic), and carve, shape, and whittle said piece of wood until it achieves perfection.

"At least one knife"?? I don't think you can even sign on to this forum unless you can provide firm evidence of ownership of at least a dozen knives, swords, machetes, or other sharp pieces.
HEEHEEHEE!

And 6 bandanas,9 stoves,8 whistles,72 pocket knives,11 compasses,43 flashlights with 12 batteries for each.... laugh
---------------------
Reminds me of the Benny Hill clip....Ben walking along and confronted by Karate guy who threatens with a few moves,whip,swirls,couple punches.Ben dead pans a look to camera,crooks his arm,has a pistol,goes...bang....
---------------------
Pete,incoming PM in a few minutes
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
I believe we are over thinking this. We all have at least one knife, right? Sally forth, find a piece of wood (or maybe even appropriate plastic), and carve, shape, and whittle said piece of wood until it achieves perfection.


Well, the selection of wood would be the first problem. I have tried a large number of them, and not all wood works. You need something that resists denting so training with it won't wear it out in a month; that has the right density so it won't be too light or too heavy; that resists breaking; that has the right surface texture so if you need to slide your hand over it, you can do it efficiently; that is strong, even, smooth, straight-grained, tightly-grained in the length you want; that has been properly treated (air-drying and kiln drying changes the wood differently); and so on.

Not all wood, even of the same "type," is equal. Hickory is good for making tool handles, but only some varieties of hickory, apparently. So, great, let's find the right variety, processed the right way, and make a stick out of hickory, right? Well, guess what, hickory dents easily (relatively speaking). I have some sticks made out of Brazilian ironwood. It's wonderful in every way except that it looks too pretty to use. It's also rather dense, and I feel slowed down by it. I have tried a lot of different woods, and some surprised me, but most disappointed.

You can also use engineered wood, and for a while I thought it was the prefect wood except for the density. But then I saw a beautiful piece shatter into pieces suddenly. No, thanks, I don't want to end up holding a stump in a fight.

And then the tools you make apparently make a difference. I personally use machine-made sticks that certainly went through sanding, but some woodworkers claim that sticks cut with a very sharp blade, unsanded, are more resilient.

We haven't even talked about rattan vs. wood...
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Bingley
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I believe we are over thinking this. We all have at least one knife, right? Sally forth, find a piece of wood (or maybe even appropriate plastic), and carve, shape, and whittle said piece of wood until it achieves perfection.



You can also use engineered wood, and for a while I thought it was the prefect wood except for the density. But then I saw a beautiful piece shatter into pieces suddenly. No, thanks, I don't want to end up holding a stump in a fight.

DANG,switch to plan B and use the stick Mrs is holding,if she isnt smack in the middle of it which knowing her is most likely.

DANG,broke the Mrs's stick,now I have to spray the fool,oh wait,Mrs is doing same thing and it isnt working.

DANG,now I have to stun gun him,oh wait,Mrs is doing that already.And those darn dogs,Honey,can you get Snooky off him please,she doesnt look too happy,neither does Girl for that matter.

Yup,layered defense,back ups and everything a cop carries as legally limited here to civilians,yup,Im feeling pretty prepared for Joe Crackhead,mugger,etc that doesnt have a gun on me.

Somehow my feeling is most fools have already decided to go after someone else.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 09:30 PM

I live right next to lots of California coastal chaparral, which can supply lots and lots of blanks for potential walking sticks. Have you tried any of the species (mountain mahogany, ceanothus, etc) that abound in our green tinder boxes? Every time I ct one down, I am thinning (no matter how imperceptibly) the fuel for the next conflagration....

In fact, after posting this morning, I went out for a short hike (beautiful day) and found myself looking at some bushes with an eye for transforming them into something quite useful - not a whole lot of whittling required.

How does bamboo work? It makes fine walking sticks, according to some.
Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/07/12 11:32 PM

Hikermor: I don't know anything about chaparral. In my experience, slow-growing tall trees tend to be better, though not always. Slow growth means tighter grain, and the species of the tree would be important, too, obviously. I don't know what people are looking for in a walking stick. For weapons, I have a strong preference for a particular species from a particular part of the world. But it's already over-harvested, and the quality is going down because the trees are getting younger and younger, as the older forests are getting cut down. It's very difficult to get a good plank in the US.

Glad you managed to go on a good walk. It was rainy, grey, and wet here. Ah, my lovely Midwest!

As for layering defense, just try and draw your secondary weapon when your primary weapon breaks. Usually that's why you get killed, especially in close-range fighting. Your enemy is suddenly presented with a naked opponent, and he will double his effort to kill you before you get your backup weapon out. Fortunately, I've only had weapons fail on me in training. Even in that artificial situation, with sympathetic, or at worst mischievous, training partners, it's really hard to emerge unscathed.

What I worry about regarding engineered wood is not that it breaks. All weapons break, not to mention wooden ones. That's what they do, and you have to train for that situation, knowing that if your weapon fails on you, you'll most likely die before you are able to execute the backup plan. But the engineered wood broke in a fashion that I didn't like, and that's why I wouldn't use it.
Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/08/12 04:13 PM

When the Yucca bloom that center stalk makes a good walking stick,really light wt. Paint em,cover in polyurethane and add a rubber tip and makes a nice 5-6 foot stick.Easy to break horizontally but durn strong on the vertical.Has a honeycomb structure inside.

Gave em for gifts one year,very well recieved.Nice snake poker and such.

Posted by: spuds

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/08/12 04:44 PM

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Posted by: Bingley

Re: Cane,walking stick for defense,any users? - 12/08/12 06:54 PM

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