Where's your riots folks?

I feel compelled to point out that here we are well into a really, really bad situation with the destruction of core infrastructure, urban power failures, tens of thousands of people unable to go home, gas shortages...and based on the chitter-chatter I've read n the past (here and elsewhere) - we should be well into zombie apocalypse territory by now. It's not happening that way. People are helping. the vast majority of people are banding together and helping solve the problems as best they can. There are no roving bands of armed mercenaries. There are no riots. There are some fights over gas - yes, I see that too. And order is being maintained.

I prefer to plan for reality, not a Mad Max fantasy.

Why would you expect there to be riots? What the northeast is going through right now would best be described as "short term inconvenience". I realize that may not be the way it feels if you're in the middle of it (I am not personally). But realistically, we have hurricanes - storms - tornados - forest fires, etc. quite frequently and those affected are rapidly helped by the rest of the country. Storms are not the end of the world, except for the few folks unfortunate enough to die in one. In general, life goes on and returns to normal within a few months to a year or two.

Now, if this storm marked the end of power, clean water, gasoline, etc. PERMANENTLY in the northeast, I think things would be different and riots and armed mobs might well ensue shortly in the future. But the chances of a permanent outage, just like the civil unrest this would cause, are quite remote.

Riots generally require a combined group grievance, some organization and some dynamism during warm sunny weather.

The grievance might come to bear in the next few days, but sunny warm sunny weather is lacking. Organization is non existent and dynamism sorely lacking whilst standing in line in the petrol queue in the cold rain whilst cold and hungry whilst blaming the folks in front of the queue for just being there.

But then again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVfbylUU-M

Have there been riots after ANY hurricane?



Just saying. There's looters, but that's pretty normal. There's the standard stories in some news outlets, and the blatant disregard of these stories in others. But I've never heard of a riot after any real natural disaster - why would this be different?

It takes a long time for discontent to turn to a rage so fierce that the only way to express yourself is through violence and destruction. The pre-storm estimates predicted 7-10 days, possibly as long as 14 in some areas, and recovery looks to be on-track with that. Urban areas are being given priority attention for a variety of reasons. Police presence has increased at least 100% in all areas, more like 200% in urban hot-spots. For example, in Jersey City you there is practically no place you can go where there isn't a squad car in view. Strict 6PM curfews were widely implemented.

The only incidents of rioting were minor and limited to gas stations. Now all operating gas stations have a permanent police team posted.

But tempers are starting to heat-up as the temperatures drop. I do expect some demonstrations to begin taking place if power isn't restored shortly to the low-income projects that still remain dark. Whether these turn into riots or not depends largely on how officials react. So far, officials seem to be doing a good job.

Haertig's comments are well taken, but do not adequately consider the dynamics. I won't venture far off-topic here, but the tri-state area does not have a history of these types of disasters. Sandy is the third hurricane to directly hit the state, tornados are rare, small and short-lived, earthquakes and major forest fires non-existent.

But no, there has been no rioting, and none is expected. Things might look differently in a week or so.

I think the biggest reason there hasn't been much rioting is because the weather has been cold and the police and national guard presence here has been significant. I mean, every time a gas station got gas around here the police or national guard were called in almost immediately, supplying multiple people to organize things and keep order. When people would get angry that the station ran out of gas, the police or national guard would force them to leave. Otherwise, you would have huge groups of people sitting around at gas stations waiting for gas.

With that said, there has been plenty of stealing and looting. My landscaper had his yard and trailers broken into, and all his gas stolen. The auto repair garage around the corner had all the cars in his lot siphoned or punched for gas. Generators are being stolen right and left if they aren't chained down. Someone even stole the generator that was powering the street lights at a major 4-way intersection by my house.

A lot of people are being helpful and friendly, which is great. But, you've still got a large population of people who are getting very aggravated and less courteous by the minute. A longer term emergency, especially one with little police/troop presence, would definitely have me very worried.

I can't recall there ever being a riot after a natural disaster. Riots are mostly about theft and wanton damage and the storm has already done a lot of damage in areas where riots might otherwise be likely.

Lots of police presence and cold weather are also serious deterrents.

Wait till tomorrow though. As we know, there is one part of the political spectrum in the US that may well riot if their candidate loses [you know how them Mormons are :)]. Although, the most likely spot for a riot is experiencing cold temperatures and rain, which could well dampen the enthusiasm for rioting.

As you say: Priority on power restoration is probably going to depend on your value to the utility companies. Which is not to their credit. Be thankful that ordinary decent people are made of better stuff.

As someone said, there is still plenty of looting and stealing. I have noticed stealing and looting to increase whenever the masses get a general sense in the air that no real law enforcement is around.

In my neighborhood, I highly doubt a riot would ever occur for anything. However, I expect stealing and looting to occur if we experienced, for example, a prolonged power outage or other catastrophic event. I keep myself aware of this concept when preparing for survival situations.

I get the impression that some folks will be disapointed if there aren't any riots.

While I didn't pontificate any doom here or elsewhere, I think this thread needs a counter-point. :-)

First, I'm unsurprised that things were orderly and that I think that serious social disorder is not a likely outcome of a natural disaster all things being equal. But I'm not sure why you seem to suggest we can draw a sweeping generalization based on this latest event.

Clearly riots / serious social disorder does occur. The LA riots showed us this can happen, even in modern America. If something can happen, it likely will happen again at some point. Perhaps not commonly, but the same can be said up here in the for a large earthquake, tornado, for your house burning down, your car getting stuck in a snowstorm, a chemical spill, your car crashing, whatever.

Personally, I think in a short term natural disaster, people are likely to work together for the most part. I don't see a large correlation between natural disasters and social unrest.

That said, social unrest is just another infrequent, but possible risk and I'm not sure why we'd hold it up and suggest it is less worth being prepared for than a chemical spill or some other infrequent risk and why you think people who might consider it in their preparations have jumped the shark more than for preparing for some other low risk event.

*shrug*

-john

Alright, we have an election-related riot, so it does happen:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/07/ole-miss-students-protest-obamas-re-election/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/election-protest-ole-miss-escalates-arrested-17666000

I'm not sure what AKSAR means for us to gather from the bolded portion. He can't be suggesting that we don't have to worry about riots because property damage doesn't always occur. Anyway, thanks for the additional information. It's reassuring, but not entirely. It seems to me a good idea to avoid "400 people with shouted racial slurs" (whatever that means). Such a situation could quickly turn ugly, I'd think.

So perhaps it's a good idea to take the possibility of election-related riots more seriously. I didn't think it at all a possibility for my location, but now I see that in some places, riots are more probable than others. Maybe this is something we need to think about.

You're joking, right? I like how the media put in the word "riot" to sell a story. However, any gathering where you can calmly drive through with a camera and give commentary is NOT a riot. I think at many colleges you could call that "Friday night before the game."

Situational awareness,a good thing.

A group of folks in a parking lot doesn't constitute a riot. Look at any tailgate party.

I agree that it is a good idea to avoid groups of people making racial slurs. I was raised in Mississippi as a young lad. I left the state when I was ten and never looked back.

Do we rate riots like we do tropical storms? If so, this would be a tropical depression - probably a very appropriate term for this incident. The disturbance following the SF Giant's four game sweep (fires, property destruction) would be a tropical storm. Hurricane designation requires overturning and burning of vehicles.....

It would be wise to avoid any of these, whatever their cause

OP has a good title, but muddles the thesis by conflating disaster related rioting with political rioting. There were predictions of post election rioting on this forum and in the news, as there were predictions that the electoral college results would be close. Neither event came to pass. But talking about close elections and riots promote media viewership. and close election worries encourage voters to turn out and vote. It appears that the media and politicos say what is in their best interest, rather than adhere to a slavish devotion to truth.

I am shocked. Shocked I tell you...

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and remember that the media are involved in entertainment, not education, which blurs the distinction between the six o'clock news and roadrunner cartoons.

I think Am Fear and Nighthiker did a good job of explaining the base dynamic behind a riot.

With a natural disaster, organized or (more likely) opportunistic looting is what you are going to get. The only time I've witnessed looting in the US first hand was during an ice storm. Some areas were without power for over a month. We were lucky and only lost power for 4 days. We saw a few cars cruising areas without power looking for easy pickings. It didn't take much effort on our part to appear to present more of a challenge than they were willing to deal with.

From 1500 miles away it's hard to know what the situation on the ground really is in the areas affected by Sandy. I pray that for the most part, people are banding together and taking care of each other. They still have a rough bit in front of them.

Good point, but you don't need to be 1500 miles away to not know what is going on. With regard to riots/looting, you may not know what is happening a block or two away. These things are highly local, and come and go quickly.

From my observation/experiences in the DC riots of 1968 and the demonstrations/riots of the anti-war protests, you could have a major incident going on, and a block or two away, everything was normal.

Up to date intel is critical.

I have only seen rioting occur when some group feels they have been slighted in some way. Rioting is usually quite limited in scope - only certain demographic groups tend to participate in it. In the case of Sandy, there was no perceived slight to any of these groups, so rioting has not occurred. I would not expect it to either. Looting, sure, I totally expect that (usually the same demographic groups being involved). But rioting, no.

Which demographic groups are these? I want to keep an eye on them whenever they are up to no good.

The riots are in Greece right now.

"Which demographic groups are these?"
Look in the older, more economically depressed centers of large cities.

"Demographic groups" was intentionally left generic. So as not to offend the the folks who are professionals at being offended when someone states the obvious. This way, if someone claims to be offended, it would only be because THEY assigned the comment to some specific demographic group themselves. And then it would be on THEIR shoulders to explain why they assigned the comment to that specific group. Thus, the offendees turn themselves into the offenders.

Pick your own demographic group based on your life experiences.

OK, I get it now. You mean like wealthy blond caucasian guys calling for a revolution?

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/07/donald_trump_loses_it_calls_for_revolution/

The Donald probably doesn't belong to the blonde demographic group. He belongs to the weirdest combover/suspected hairpiece group. Dudes, the Donald IS a riot, all by himself.

Thank you Heartig,you said a lot.

Edited by Administrator

Anyway, I took a look at the list of riots on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

It's really hard to discern a pattern. The only thing I noticed is that the Western world seems to have more sports- or entertainment-related riots than the other parts of the world. Man, we're so well-off that if our team doesn't win, we break stuff, or if our band cancels the concert, we burn stuff. Good thing I don't live next to a stadium or a concert hall.

How dare you say that?! Coy passive-agressive cowards are now offended the world over!

The term "certain demographics groups" is code for "people who are unfamiliar to me." Then, you do the math. For example, if you have no white friends, then most of the rioters tend to be white in your view of the world. If you have no black friends, then most the rioters tend to be black in your view of the world. If you have zero friends on the other side of town, then most the rioters tend to be on the other side of town... and so on.

Before a moderator comes in and starts barking about how this is off topic, I'll say it's definitely not. In a survival situation, it's important to have an honest view of yourself so that you can better distinguish truth from misconceptions. When you're out there stranded, you may have to depend on people who are unfamiliar to you. If you come into a situation with misconceptions, you may act in a way that's detrimental to your own survival.

He failed to specify a particular group out of respect for the forum rules. At least for the U.S., eliminating sports/band riots should narrow the list down considerably.

Without a doubt the best rioters in the world have to be the South Koreans, now they know how to organise a Riot..

You know,I was just thinking you must have served in the military,Am I right?

I'll edit out the rest,being a coward and all.

Actually, I was not in the military. Something I wish I had done, but alas, did not. I was an Army Brat though - my dad retired as a colonel.

It shows,in a most refreshing manner in todays PC world.Again,thank you for stating the obvious.

I too have no problem ascertaining where the danger areas are.Its where the lowlife live.

Color of skin plays little bearing unless that lowlife area is defined by race and gangland protocol means you better be the right color,flying the right colors or you are dead.

Scum is scum,period.

Most riots that are not event related have tended to be in certain parts of major urban areas in the USA. There just have not been serious riots in rural and suburban areas.

Your risk of exposure to riots is pretty low if you live a few miles away from those parts of urban areas that are most likely to have riots.

If you live in an urban area, you need to look at how close you are to areas that might have riots. Well to do and middle class areas of urban areas don't typically have riots, at least in residential areas.

Riots are uncommon during inclement or cold weather as well.

It is hard to be PC and still be specific about what the true risk factors are but I think most of us are clued in well enough to understand what they are without them being spelled out.

One thing to keep in mind is how the city authorities will handle a riot may well affect you too. Most cities in the past have adopted the tactic of letting the riot go on as long as the riot is in places the city just does not care much about in the first place. as long as urban renewal is in progress, they probably won't take any aggressive steps to quell the disturbances.

If the riot threatens to spread, they will try to direct it away from areas they consider important, or at least try to contain it. Look at your city map and see what features might be used. If there are rivers flowing through your city, it is relatively easy to close a bridge and keep a riot from spreading across the river. If you are not on the riot side of the river, that is good for you. If you are on the riot side of the river, it may funnel the riot your direction.

Seems to be a lot going on in Portugal,Spain and Greece.Practically a media blackout here,if you dont go online they arent showing much.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...eep-Europe.html

That is ugly!