Electrolyte replacement

I have long been of the opinion that sports drinks are a high dollar marketing ploy. The army taught us that plain water was nearly as good, because these drinks replenished only the mostly easily reproduced electrolytes. I've gone with that philosophy for 23 years now. Its probably been more than a decade since I've had ANY sport drink.

I recently purchased a bottle of Gatorade G2 that was short-dated and cheap. I took it with today because I anticipated a need with the temps going high early. Intended to test this newer, updated product. Sure enough, I was sweating freely all morning and needed fluids. I drank the inoffensive 32oz. I noticed a stronger salt taste than I expected. The short version is that I feel that it helped me.

Yes, I think that this is HUGE business, but I am no longer opposed to buying & using these products, especially if they can be gotten on sale. Somewhere, I have a recipe for a homemade drink. Think I'll try to make some soon.

Yeah, I remember the old Yellow Death flavor. <shudders> I was working convenience retail when those horrid flavors came out.

This was raspberry watermelon or some such. Not so sure about the more generic drinks, but the G2 seemed to work as advertised.

Water will do in most environs. Scouts on Gatorade are another species, we don't allow Gatorade on hikes. The one exception I make is dry and very hot hikes east of the Cascades - Scouts on Gatorade over-replenishing on their electrolytes are highly preferable to Scouts down from heat exhaustion. Water still works on those hikes for me, but Gatorade is a decent and inexpensive psychological pick me up.

Mind the little booger pickers though - they'll pour in 4 packets of Gatorade mix for every quart of water. Hold them to the proper mix amount.

Oral rehydration solution

Tho this solution was developed primarily to treat dehydration
due to disease, it works well for quickly getting fluid into the
blood, faster than plain water when you are depleted by sweating. A home made Sports Drink.

"Basic solution

Where ORS sachets are not available, home-prepared solutions are typically used. While many different recipes exist to increase palatability (e.g. adding flavor, citrus, savory, etc.), all are based on a standard ratio of water, sugar, and salt.

A basic oral rehydration therapy solution is composed of:[20][21]

30 ml (6 level tsp) of sugar
2.5 ml (1/2 level tsp) of salt, dissolved into
1 litre (4.25 Cups) of clean water

Note that these expedient rehydration mixtures do not replenish potassium, and usage over long term may result in hypokalemia. To obtain some potassium, 125 ml (4 fl oz) of orange juice or some mashed banana can be added to the mixture.[22]
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy

Thank you, Oware, that saves me from digging around. I would suggest that in place of bananas for potassium, coconut water/juice can be used. Of course, I'm a fiend for cocunut anyway. <g>

Salt substitute preparations containing potassium chloride are commonly available for those who want a clear fluid. Orange juice and tomato juice are far more concentrated sources of potassium, sodium and chlorides than any of the patented drinks, or ors packets. The natural juices have a bit more sugar than needed, remedied by dilution.

If one is relying on sugar to speed up water absorption,
wouldn't fruit sugars be less optimal?

I've read baking soda is preferred over salt if availble. Any truth to that?

HC

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. electrolytes include potassium, sodium, chloride, and HCO3, the bicarbonate ion. the latter is mostly involved in pH, or acid-base balance, which is usually a function of respiratory or kidney performance, rather than exercise or diarrhea. In truth, most folks do not exercise enough to need lytes in the first place, so bicarb relacement is probably not a priority.
When er staff replace electrolytes intravenously in people who desperately need it, they use saline (NaCl solution) or KCl infusion, carefully... Sodium bicarb is pretty much reserved for the later stages of unsuccessful resuscitations.

Great info Mike, thanks.

Great info on this thread! Thanks everyone!

The army didn't teach us this much, but we usually used normal saline also.

I do think that drinks with proper electrolyte replacement are helpful. I agree though that they have become big business. To my way of thinking, the main problem with Gatorade is that it's far too sweet. I wish they'd get 80% of the sugar out of that stuff. I'm still looking for a reasonable electrolyte drink that has proper sodium and potassium levels, and much lower sugar.

Yeah - I do know about ORS. It works but tastes lousy :-)
There has to be a compromise somewhere.

By the way ... the joke I tell people is this. Drink one Coca-Cola. Then drink one Pepsi. The Coke uses sodium-based chemicals. The Pepsi uses potassium-based equivalents. So if you drink one of both - you've got your sodium and potassium, right?? hahahaha!

Pete2

I've been a happy Vitalyte customer for quite some time and I think it fits the bill.

I just purchased these tablets from Amazon.

Electrolyte Tablets

I haven't received them yet, so I can't comment on how well they work. They will be much cheaper than the G2 which I have been using to prevent leg cramps at night.

I prefer Powerade. I read a recipie on the internet for homade electolyte mix which sounded gruesome. 20 teaspoons of sugar and 1 teaspoon of salt to 1 liter of water. I imagine you could dress it up with kool aid.

Made the recipe from page 1 yesterday. Added some coconut juice. Not a great flavor. Without juice it is pretty unpleasant. I'll try something else. It seemes to have worked for me today though.

"I've been a happy Vitalyte customer ..."

thanks I will definitely check it out.
And i agree that Powerade seems better - and less sweet - than Gatorade.

Pete2

compare the ingredient labels for any electrolyte beverage with that of a v8 juice can. V8 is better, cheaper, and provides 2 servings of vegetables, rather than a batch of empty calories. The cans are arguably more recycle-worthy than the plastic containers. electrolyte/bottled water/soft drinks are a triumph of marketing creating a perceived need and selling a product to fill the need. Eating a balanced diet eliminates the need for supplements.

What he said.

In 1 liter container,

1. 1/4 to 1/2 tsp Morton's Lite salt (not regular salt)
2. up to 1/3 cup table sugar or 6 packets non-sugar sweetener (or however much it takes to make palatable)
3. flavoring if needed (1/2 packet of koolaid, etc)

I use those 5-hr energy bottles, cleaned out, dried, and put one scoop of Country Time Lemonade in them. Time to re-hydrate, put into 16oz of water works for me.

Fluid replacement position paper

Courtesy of the american college of sports medicine. They also have a consumers guide to fluid replacement that is less rigorous and panders suitably to commercial interests.

They suggest daily weights after arising and voiding, with comparison weights after exercise to calculate actual fluid loss, which seems to vary from not much to 8 liters for a 300 pound lineman in full pads. A liter of water weighs one kilogram, or a pints a pound.

I would agree that the success of soft drinks is tributed to the right marketing; the marketing strategy of soft drinks is completely different from bottled water and electrolyte drinks.

Jeanette Isabelle

I am sure that you are correct. I am profoundly ignorant of marketing science: I was an er nurse, and you got it our way or you pretty much didn't get it at all. My gripe is that one needs fluids, but one is taught by marketing science to want zero calorie, zero caffeine, carbonated goo instead of water. In fact, it occurs to me that as our marketing industry has become more effective at changing our behavior, our education industry seems to have become less effective at so doing. If only all that marketing power could be harnessed for good, rather than evil...

I have been researching this topic as a treatment for diarrhea, and other similar ailments, while in austere medical environments. My research led me to this YouTube video:

Video

The video (and further research by WHO) led me to order this product from Amazon:

Drip Drop

I have not tried it yet, so I cannot comment on taste. But they seem to have everything needed, and pack/travel well. When at home, I would probably just mix up my own drink, or drink a V8 juice like nursemike suggested (although I would probably drink the low-sodium version, as it has more potassium in it).

Color me a bit skeptical (and my SO who has some years of 3rd world NGO relief work experience) on this product. The allusion (not to be confused with illusion) of wording on their website and Amazon skirts the fine line of the product being endorsed or used by the World Health Organization.

Also on their website, they claim:
The Drip Drop team travelled to Port Au Prince shortly after the devastating earthquake in 2010 to save the lives of Haitians with oral rehydration therapy. This an unsubstantiated statement that their product is what actually saved the lives of those people...and not probable proper medical care also.

Finally on Amazon, it says that their current product expires in 08/12 which is only 2 months away. This not a product that I would want in my USK (urban survival kit) nor my wilderness kits as an emergency use product that has such a short shelf life...

You make excellent points. I did not pay much attention to the marketing hype. I was more interested in the ingredient list. Regarding the expiration date, the contents are sugar and various minerals, so it is unclear to me what would ever expire.

Specific products aside, do you (or your wife) have any insights on how well this concept might work, or what might work better?

Thank you.

On the first page of this thread is a basic ORS recipe which combined with a couple of kool aid packs is sufficient for 99% of us. Also the ingredients in Gatorade powder is not all that much different then the product you are interested in...

When I first really got involved with the outdoors and hiking and mountain climbing, there was an older Austrian man who would occasionally join our outings. When we would stop for lunch and meal breaks, us younger lads would pull out, at the time, the high tech drinks, meal bars etc and scarve them down while the older...and much wiser man would quietly chow down on some heavy bread, a hunk of sausage, some cheese, an orange or banana or 2 and wash it all down with water. We thought he was so "old "school" but little did we know at the time, his choice of food and diet negated his need for supplementary energy drinks and meal bars...and at a much cheaper cost to him.

There is much to be learned from the old.

IMHO, the challenge in using oral rehydration solutions is less the recipe than it is getting it into the patient, who is lethargic, nauseated, not thirsty or all of the above. My chronically ill child could be kept out of the hospital if she was kept hydrated at home. Grandma solved the problem by setting her up in front of the tv with a shot glass full of lemonade and 5 minute timer. each time the timer went off, the kid drank 30 cc: 150 cc/ hr was plenty to maintain her fluid balance... and it seemed more like a game than therapy. YMMV.

As another RN I agree with what Mike said,electrolyte replacement really is a matter for hospitals,not sport drinks.

Stick with water IMO,FWIW.

Most hardcore, really in to it, endurance athletes i know (and that is 100's) will only reach for a Gatorade, et al, out of convenience during a training session or race. Post race re-hydration though most people generally agree, myself included, that Pedialyte delivers a better result than marketed sport drinks at getting electrolytes back into the system.

Just yesterday I was sent a link to a new book by Dr. Tim Noakes, the foremost authority on running in the world. His book is

Waterlogged: The Serious Problem of Overhydration in Endurance Sports
at 429-pages and his level of research it is not light reading but you will find it will set the tone for thinking for the next few years.

A friend of mine who did Ironman New Zealand recently said that they were very concerned with over hydration and advised against it for the individual as well has providing less water stations on the course. End result was they had less cases or hyponatermia (an electrolyte imbalance in the body usually from too much water being put in it)

I received the electrolyte tablets mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. I have taken them for the last two days and have not had the leg cramps at night that I often get. It is too soon to draw a definitive conclusion, but they seem to be working for me.

These are much cheaper than sports drinks at $9.95 for 125 doses (two tablets per packet). And you can drink plain water for hydration. As a diabetic I can't drink all the sugar laden sports drinks, so this is another plus for me.

Also, they do not contain any sodium. For those of us on low sodium diets this is another advantage.

Since they are just small packets they can easily be placed in first aid kits, survival kits, and pockets.

These tablets contain:

Calcium (from calcium carbonate) 10.64 mg
Potassium (from potassium chloride) 40 mg
Magnesium (from magnesium oxide) 12 mg

The self-life is somewhat over a year. Mine expire 8/13 but I have no way of knowing how long ago these were made. I would expect these chemicals to be quite stable, so I am not sure why the shelf-life is so short. Even if you end up tossing half the box because it reached the expiration, it is still way cheaper than sports drinks.

See the Amazon link in my previous message.

The packets say Medi-Lyte on them. The box says First Aid Only on it.

I am not affiliated with the company that sells this product.

But the tablets don't provide hydration ; ). To me, buying any tablet is a massive waste of money since you can just add a bit of morton's lite salt to your drink of choice. It's not rocket science and you won't die because it's not commercially labeled electrolyte replacement.

Thank for the position paper. There is a lot in it to digest. I have generally tried to remain hydrated, rather than recover from dehydration. I usually prefer diluted Gatorade, supplemented with water. I prefer to have both available, along with salty snacks.

I didn't mean to imply that it provided hydration, but it does allow you to drink anything you want for hydration. I believe I did mention that you can just drink water.

Morton's Lite Salt may be cheaper, but it still contains sodium and the tablets do not, so the tablets are better for those requiring low sodium. Also, the tablets are only about 8 cents per serving, and Gatoraid (in case quantities) is about $1 per serving, so they are still way cheaper than a sports drink.



I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. Could you rephrase this?

Electrolyte physiology is complex. Water and glucose are transported across the cell membrane quickly, courtesy of insulin. Potassium and sodium take longer to soak in. Sodium, potassium, and calcium depletion can cause muscle cramps in early stages, and subsequently, seizures, cardiac dysrhythmias, and death. Individual metabolic differences make it difficult to generalize, so doctors do not do so: electrolyte levels are assayed by frequent blood tests, and replacement is done slowly and carefully. Dehydration and elevated lytes levels are equally hazardous. Excessive exertion or injury can flood the body with muscle cell breakdown metabolites, causing kidney failure-I took care of an aging jock who overdid a spinning class and was in the icu for a week with myoglobinuria.

Be careful out there.

If you are buying the Gatorade by the bottle it is expensive, however in the powder form it is a lot cheaper. I use G2 which is basically the same as original Gatorade but half the sugar. With original formula, I always diluted with water because I couldn't stand the sweetness.

For use during golfing as an example: I drink one .5 litre bottle of water with one packet of mix before going out. Then drink about another 1 litre of either water or G2 during the 4.5 hour round. (I use that example because it has a typical time window and known amount of exertion for me. Other activities can range from hiking to kayaking to.... and each activity would have different lengths of time, exertion levels and greater variation which means you cannot faithfully predict how much I will need to consume via this forum.)

I don't think you NEED to drink a lot of water during an activity but by taking in a normal amount you might be slightly dehydrated at the end. So what? Your body will stabilize itself by cutting urine output or your natural thirst will tell you to drink more. Either way your not going to be at either extreme.

A quick question - Are the various new formulation of Gatorade (G1, G2, etc) available in powder form. I have always preferred my G drink in powdered form, but I have never seen the newer varieties in powder in my local stores....

The G2 are, I bought some by mistake before.
They are at least in the single sizes.

Everywhere I have seen the G or G2 powder it is either already expired, or about to expire. Either this stuff has a very short shelf-life or it is not very popular.

I'm not sure why it would have a shorter self-life than the liquid.

I couldn't find the G anywhere, had to order it online. Its "expired" now but still works fine. All the local stores had was G2.
Lady footlocker was where I found it who then sold my name and now I get flyers from other shoe stores, even that scam one called eastbay.

There is proably a couple of thousand on-line stores that you can order from, even Amazon and Ebay. Google is your friend. I bought a couple of cases locally last year in 2 flavours. Expiry date - I never noticed and I seriously doubt the efficacy would drop much. Charcoal heaters have an expiry date on them too and I used them YEARS after purchasing without problems.

I saw plenty of G2 at kroger today, let me know if you want some, i can't drink the G2, only the G1.

I found a store brand grape juice that does not have added sugar and contains decent potassium. Used it today after biking in 102 heat. It greatly improved the ORS.

I have avoided Kool-Aid and other purely chemical additives. I'm not especially organic, just seems to make more sense to me.

Hey all, long-time lurker, first-time poster. In my younger days I spent many a summer working outdoors and I am a big-time sweater...and I mean big-time. At the end of the day after I dried out you could see the salt impregnated in my shirt & cap. Disgusting, sure LOL, but it made hydration a topic near and dear to me. I always drank plenty of straight H2O, three, sometimes four liters a day. I also carried a re-hydration formula that always worked for me. Half a liter bottle of water, little less than half OJ with a teaspoon of sugar and two shots of pickle brine. Sounds nasty but really it wasn't half bad and it worked for me. I've always found Gatorade and other sports drinks a tad too sweet to be guzzling very often.

"Eating a balanced diet eliminates the need for supplements."

I tend to agree that having a good diet probably solves a lot of problems.

but there are some circumstances where these energy drinks and electrolytes are very useful:

1. For arduous types of exercise, such as the people training for triathlons. I just don't think they would come close to meeting requirements (esp. given time between meal and exertion) for essential sodium and potassium. Esp. when training on hot days.

2. I've found myself that when working hard under hot sun (something I avoid these days) that my body also gets an exhaustion lag. And one one these electrolyte drinks helps tremendously.

3. Frankly, as I'm getting older (hate to use that word - but I'm well past midlife crisis :-) ) I have noticed that my metabolism just isn't processing things nearly as fast as it used to when I was young and invincible. It takes more time and planning to get the right amounts of H2O and minerals into my body for workouts. Or else I reach a physical limit pretty quickly sometimes. So the smart use of these drinks can help to avoid some of these imbalances.

just my $0.02

Pete2

And sometimes its hard to drop everything your doing and cook a well balanced meal.

The single size Gatorade packets were impossible to find online last summer too. I just saw them in Dickssportinggoods, they are packaged in ziplock baggie type of packages instead of the boxes they were in.

I've been drinking Vita Coco for a few yrs now,this stuff is coconut water from young coconuts,there are other decent brands as well.This stuff is the Real Deal for proper hydration & Electrolyte replenishment! Around 15% potassium per serving,Good Stuff! No Affilili w/the above brand!

Thanks! I'll look for it around here.

The bulk of my Christmas stocking was Vita Coca drinks. Good stuff. For a prepared stop in my training I use them. When on the go, I still use Hammer Endurolytes.

Interesting information: I checked a box that I bought last year. It shows the packaging date on the bottom, Feb 07 2011 @ 21:30 by XXX which makes sense since I bought it in March. I looked for an expiry date but found none on the box or packets. Perhaps you misinterpeted? Another google search said that the powder has roughly a 2 year shelf life @ 70*F.

FWIW,I think expiration dates are really a marketing gimick for the most part so that storekeepers keep only the freshest product on the shelf. "Best Before" would be a better interpetation. Milk would be a definite exemption for me and I won't drink it after it's date unless I wanted to get sick.

Well, you might be right, however, it seems to me that some of the dates were in the future so that would indicate that they weren't manufacture dates. I will check again next time I see them.

I tend to agree with you about "best by" and "expiration" dates. Gatorade is just sugar and salts, both of which have very long self lives.

Mine are all dated November 2011 and were bought in the spring or summer of 2011 so it couldn't be a manufactured date.

Even if you were really dehydrated and drank a bit of lightly salted water,I think the dehydration is the issue,the added salt on your low sodium diet is not an issue,IMO. Doubt a salty day is going to kill you,dehydration surely could potentially take you off the life force.

As for what a triathlon athlete needs,doesnt really apply to us average schmucks,and Im sure they have experts assessing their needs,or are experts themselves for their highly unusual needs.

Tried a Glaceau Vitamin Water today after biking home in 100 degrees. Not impressed, My grape ORS did better and had a stronger flavor. Phooey!

That only works for some people.

The only coconut I like has rum mixed in

The vitamin water and similar (ie Propel) aren't set up to really be rehydration drinks. Not enough potassium or sodium. Better than nothing, and I love my propel, but not really set out for the weather we've been having.

By the way, these are the two products I used while deployed (no affiliation w/ either site):
http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2258

http://www.nitro-pak.com/ceralyte-oral-electrolytes-50g-2-pak

I had read the label, but tried it as an option to plain water. Not sure I have a need to fight Free Radicals (wait, do they mean free-range Karl Rove?), but the flavor was weak.

The ORS worked really well at a fraction of the cost.

On my deployments we had to settle for water bags from the King of Saudi Arabia (they were like IV bags without any openings) or commercial 1 liters.

I picked up a pack of the new Gatorade powder. They changed it from the one packet per 16.9 fl oz to one packet per 32 oz, my guess changing from the wasteful disposable water bottle size to a nalgene size.

Izzy,

So sorry! But your sacrifice saved us from a similar fate!

My wife loves them and uses them to fuel for her half-Ironman training. I haven't tried them for myself.

Eeeew! The bit about vaseline COMPLETELY killed it. Blech!

ROFL!

So sorry, but you make it sound funny!

Update

I have been using the Medi Lyte electrolyte tablets (mentioned in a previous post in this thread) for about two weeks now. I have not had a single incidence of nighttime leg cramps during this time, so they seem to be working great for me. I am somewhat surprised since they have very small amounts of potassium and calcium and no sodium. Nevertheless, they are working.

The last night time cramp I had disabled me for a few days, ever since I've been taking calcium/magnesium pills in the evening. Doc provided me with quinine sulphate which helped but had some undesirable side effects.

This video isn't too far off from the version of leg cramps I sometimes get at night. The guy is in severe pain and the gal is basically having a laughing fit!???!
http://en.video.canoe.tv/video/worst-leg-cramp-ever/1728928678001