Moving over to metal water bottles...

Upgrading everything to Kleen Kanteen or similar water bottles _ easier to heat/ purify water in. Has anyone attached a wire bail for holding over a fire? Even better; one that stays out of the way during everyday use?

I wonder if it might make sense to have most of your water bottles be plastic and have one that is metal. Save you a lot of weight and some cash.

The wire bail is a good idea. How it would fold and be out of the way, I'm not so sure. Unless your bottle has a metal lid, you'll need to remove the lid for heating. What if you just brought an ordinary pot gripper of the type used for backpacking? You'd lift the metal bottle out of the fire just as you would a pot used for cooking. Might be less hassle than a wire bail although a wire bail has the obvious advantage of being able to be suspended over a fire from a stick.

HJ

I use metal water bottles as well, both Kleen Kanteens and Guyot Designs bottles. Most of the time I don't really see a need for dedicated bail. My multi-tool or gloved hands work just fine for placing and removing the bottle from a heat source.

With that said, there are bail designs out there and even a few that are being sold:

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/2010/10/09/review-marion-outdoors-flexible-bail-for-guyot-bottles/

My preference is a light, cheap (typically free) plastic bottle with a nested metal cup/pot. Metal bottles are heavy...

What's the best source of those Kleen Kanteens?

I've been mulling those on occasion but my decade-old 32oz Nalgenes (Polyethylene) are going strong and weigh just 3.5oz. They get a lot of use, including being frozen for use in the cooler on camping trips.

http://www.rei.com/product/402049


I recently decided to be more prepared, even on local walks (C&O Canal, Great Falls NP) and to that end purchased a titanium Snow Peak Trek 700 mug (has a lid and weighs 4oz) and titanium Vargo wood stove. The Vargo folds down incredibly small and weighs just 4oz.

Another approach to the same goal.

Speaking of titanium..... there are a few companies out there that make titanium water bottles.

They can basically do everything a steel bottle can, while only weighing about as much as a plastic bottle. Unfortunately, they're still quite expensive ($60-70 vs ~$10 for a Nalgene and ~$25 for steel).

I presently hike with an 18oz kleen kanteen and a camelback, which works pretty well for me. However, if I could find an ~18 ounce titanium bottle I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I don't consider myself an ultralight hiker, but if I can save an ounce here and there without sacrificing anything...it can definitely start to add up.

Titanium water bottle. Only $70...

http://www.vargooutdoors.com/Titanium-Water-Bottle

750ml (25oz?)

That Vargo bottle seems nice. Exotac also makes another titanium bottle that is about the same price (650 ml IIRC).

Since TeacherRO mentions getting a metal water bottle for heating/purifying water, I was wondering, do stainless or titanium bottle require noticeably more fuel to boil water in compared to aluminum since they don't conduct heat as well? Practically speaking, that is.

I'm sure the ultralight crowd has figured this one out already, but I don't really read those forums. Thanks.

I am not a fan of using a SS water bottle as a cooking vessel or for just heating water as they are not versatile enough for my needs.

On every hike,I always carry at least one Nalgene bottle and the SS cup on the right along with my MSR Pocket Rocket Stove, matches, lighter and fuel cannister as I really enjoy a cup of tea with lunch or dinner on the trail.

If it is an overnight or multi-day hike, the Primus LITECH Trek Kettle Pot is taken. The pot holds ~32 oz and can be used to cook/warm small meals, double as a teapot and as a cup if needed. I find it much easier this way then using a SS water bottle...Ever try cleaning a SS water bottle after you attempted to cook something and it sticks to the inside of the bottle?

Either the cup or pot also works great for just boiling water for purification purposes

The material makes no practical difference in fuel consumption for the usual backpacking cooking gear, which are typically quite thin. This is especially true if you are boiling water, the usual task.

I regard titanium water bottles as hideously extravagant. There are many places where ti is the right kind of material but water bottles is not one of them.

I agree with Hikemor. There is no real difference between different types of materials for water bottles or other cook gear when it comes to boiling or cooking times. Some higher end SS pots have thicker bottoms, but again not enough to make any real measurable difference.

As for TI water bottles...or any other TI gear in general, I don't bother. Carefully and thoughtfully selecting and packing your gear for the expected distance, weather, terrain and environment can easily make up the difference in weight. Too many times, I see people out for a day or overnight hike and being weighed down with too much gear that would be more suited for an expedition length trip.

I went the opposite route - I started off with metal water bottles (military surplus, sigg, etc.), then went to hard nalgenes, and now use wide mouth platypus reservoirs. They're about as easy to scrub out as a nalgene, not as heavy as a metal bottle, and they squish flat when not in use. I've also used them as floats in my backpack when canoeing. They are compatible with my MSR water filter, too.

I don't heat anything in my canteens. I use a quart-sized titanium pot for that.

The only disadvantage I can see with the platys is that they develop a smell after a few years. They're arguably not as durable, but they've held up through a total of months of bushwhacking.

The downside to metal water bottles in desert climes (for everyday use) is that if you leave one in your trunk or car seat during the day, its a burn waiting to happen when you go to pick it up. While solar heating is unavoidable, at least plastic bottles won't burn your hand when you grab it. Minor observation on long term ubiquitous use.

Of course we're discussing off grid use. I prefer 'Nalgene' bottles to hydration reservoirs b/c even though the bladders carry more I don't drink as much and works better with my SteriPen and tablets. YMMV. (I do use a reservoir when I run).

Let me try to explain my hiking style and maybe that will help this make sense. I don't tend to heat water from fire.
--I have a Jet Boil, very easy and cup provided.
--I have a White Box Stove that I use a UL 3 cup teapot. A bit bigger footprint in my pack but its still a lighter set up than the Jet Boil.
--I just bought a GSI Halulite Minimalist cook set for $22 which would be the closest I have to being able to boil water on a fire. It nests a 1L Nalgene bottle perfectly and weighs about .5 oz. It has a rubber two finger pot gripper that is pretty ingenious.

I would always prefer to boil water w/o an open fire, and guess now I can.

Teslinhiker,

I don't think most of us consider using the metal bottle as a regular cooking utensil, just as a backup or for those times we don't carry any other pots because we are not going to need to heat water (which is of course the time we need it most).

Respectfully,

Jerry

Jerry - True. I've moved to metal because of the minimal equipment - maximum uses philosophy. In all likelihood I'll never boil water in one, but I carry matches anyway.

Personally I do not trust anything not made specifically for cooking in to cook in. Many metal water bottles especially the cheaper ones have Liners sprayed into them which is common for almost anything metal these days including food and beverage cans. The best lightest weight pot I have found while not romantic or top tech is the little one withen most inexpensive messkits. I can easily remove it and take just that along with other gear in a "lightweight" assortment for camping.

I have used Klean Kanteens extensively for boiling water. As for being designed for it, they do not suggest them being used as your every day pot but Klean Kanteen does note on their website that it is perfectly fine to use them for cooking in. The only issue that I have ever had is that soot builds up and needs to be cleaned off. I scrub mine down with a brillo pad when I get home and dont have any issue with the external discoloration from the heat/smoke. After using mine extensively the inside surface looks brand new and the material shows no signs of obvious stress. Feel free to check out my blog which has an entry on them.

I was surprised to hear that plastic and metal bottle weights are nearly the same. Given that, I'll go metal for the heating/ boiling option.

Depends on the plastic. Recycled pop bottles are significantly lighter, and much cheaper. The money I save on canteens allows me to buy overpriced flashlights and brag about them.....

Who told you that?

I just ran some comps.

My plastic 32 oz Nalgene bottle weighs 6.3 oz w/ lid. (personal test)

This link shows as 38 oz Guyot Design Stainless weighs 12.9 (prob w/ lid)

This link shows Nalgenes Stainless 1L also weighs 12.9 oz.

A Tantonka Stainless 34oz bottle weighs 8.5 oz w/lid. or ratio of capacity to weight = 4.0

A 64oz Klean Kanteen 64oz bottle w/lid weighs 12.3 oz ; ratio = 64/12.3 = 5.2

The 32 oz Nalgene ratio = 32/6.3 = 5.1

So there isn't much in it, with the 64oz Klean Kanteen being lighter per unit volume than the plastic Nalgene.

I don't think the weight difference matters unless you carry several of them empty. The water is most of the weight after all.

A difference of 6 oz is significant if you are carrying it in a pack,and there are perfectly good containers that are even lighter - recycled pop bottles and platypus containers. Shaving ounces from your gear, let alone pounds, will result in much less weight.

I think if I was gonna live and die by 6 oz I'd keep my SS bottle and just get a haircut before the trip.

Paying attention to things like the weight of water bottles can easily result in weight savings of ten to twenty pounds. Over the course of a week long trip that is considerable.

I first became interested in lightweight, serviceable gear doing SAR. Cutting weight allowed me to carry more items of use in the operation- everything from rope to stethoscope to additional dressings, IVs, etc. So yes it can be (at least in theory) a matter of life or death. I always got a haircut, as well. Don't forget to trim your fingernails....

Sure, shaving ounces on every item will add up. But I like to prioritize the items where saving weight is the most important and where durability is more critical. One of my most used PSKs is a Maxpedition bottle holder with with my AMK PSP, Mora, paracord and a few other survival items. In this kit the bottle really is the only area I'm allowing for more weight. This is critical since I can boil in it, it won't rust and it's very, very sturdy.

Interesting...I also use a Maxpedition bottle holder as the basis of what i call my NCOT kit (Nice Cup of Tea). I nest a Gatorade bottle and a Titanium mug, along with a very efficient windshield and a Trangia stove, plus the items for tea. it makes a nice compact unit and it readily produces that all important nice cup of tea.

The bottle holder I use is the one sized to hold a nalgene bottle with a pocket on the side and acres of MOLLE webbing all over.

I need to post pictures one of these days....

I think you did, Hikermor. Your posts were instrumental in me finally getting my kit right. Especially cutting the insulation out...couldn't make a good fit til then.