Butane gas stoves

Posted by: Chisel

Butane gas stoves - 12/11/10 09:32 AM

I have seen somewhere a few small stoves that run on butane lighter gas. You just stick that can nozzle in the bottom of the stove, fill it up and you get a stove that is like a super jumbo lighter. Thought it cool and may need something like that for light cooking (maybe some tea, noodles ..etc.) I figured wherever I go , that butane can is available and can use it to recharge the stove.

Any idea about good ones out there ??

Thanks
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/11/10 03:42 PM

I've seen a few butane stoves, but they all connected to a separate cannister. I've never seen a refillable one. They might be useful for mild conditions, considering how inexpensive they are.

It's worth considering that alcohol and propane seem to be available everywhere too, and there are plenty of inexpensive, proven stoves for these fuels.

I'd be interested to know what you come up with.


Posted by: Tjin

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/11/10 06:52 PM

Also note that butane turn liquid at a high temperature. 7 degree celsius if i remember correctly. So cooking in cold temperature is going to be a issue.
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/12/10 04:41 AM

I live in a hot area ( Middle East ), so cold temperatures are not an issue except maybe a few winter nights. Besides I may need it in ( mild environments ), that means indoors, where perhaps electricty is not available or not convenient.

It just adds more options , especially in small package liek a GHB or BOB.

By the way, I have looked for yellow HEET (methyl alcohol) in our market but couldn't find it. I will keep looking though because I remember seeing red and yellow gas additive fluids in some gas stations.

I have seen methyl alcohol (yellow HEET) in a number of You-tube videos and it seems another good option for some cases. But the good thing about refillable butane stove is to put the EMPTY stove in the luggage when travelling and butane refills are available in most stores in any city.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/12/10 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Chisel
But the good thing about refillable butane stove is to put the EMPTY stove in the luggage when travelling and butane refills are available in most stores in any city.


If you mean luggage on airlines, forget it. They will not allow a refillable stove that has EVER contained fuel. They're more reasonable if it's the burner-only portion of a stove that attaches to a separate disposable cannister. Just a heads-up.
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/12/10 07:38 AM

Thanks for the heads up
I meant luggage in car or bus travel. I myself don't like to be in a plane anyway and have long since travelled by a plane.

Mostly, I need it for (what if) in our family trips by car or bus. Or maybe my business trips that can last 2-3 days within a few 100 miles radius. Sometimes we go to work camps or stop at some scenic area, and you know.. what is a scenic area without a cuppa coffee.

Not considering other issues ( like security) and focusing on personal issues only, this butane stove seems to be the the least of headache besides an esbit. Liquid fuels can spill in luggage bags and they smell too.

Back to plane travel. I have given it some thought because we prepared folks have to think: what if ???

IF I had to go by plane ( God forbid, LOL ) , I have in mind two options. One is ( hope someone helps me find it ) an iron that can be flipped upside down ( handle becomes the base ) and you can cook or warm things on its hot surface. The other one I need badly is a small half-liter electric kettle which I have found in a store nearby and like it very much. With both of these, I can manage most of my cooking or such.
Posted by: LED

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/12/10 09:55 PM

A lot of alcohol stove users are swithing to
Klean-Strip "Green" Denatured Alcohol or Crown "Next" brand. Apparenlty they have a much higher ethanol content, which is what you want in alcohol, and slightly less toxic than regular denatured alcohol.
Posted by: Paul810

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/12/10 10:29 PM

If you can get it, I think Everclear is the best thing on the market for alcohol stoves. At 190 proof it's 95% alcohol and it's completely food safe. Price varies, but by me it's less than $15 for a fifth. It also works as an antiseptic, and you can even drink it if need be (though I wouldn't advise drinking it straight).

Along the same lines, If you make pine needle tea and then mix in some Everclear after you let the tea cool, it makes an alcoholic beverage similar in flavor to gin.

(Disclaimer: Drink alcohol at your own risk. Don't drink alcohol underage. Don't drink alcohol and drive or operate machinery/sharp objects. Don't drink alcohol if you're pregnant. Finally, if you do decide to drink alcohol, make sure to do so responsibly.) smile
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 04:34 AM

Thanks everyone

If I would use ethyl alcohol I can use sterno which is fueled by alcohol and it is ready out of the can. However, it is only found in large stores with camping or barbeque sections.

I am mostly interested in butane for availability of refills in any store, and Esbit which is solid (won't spill or be affected in hot weather ).

Esbit fuel is not available around either, but I may use the esbit stove with coals smeared with petroleum jelly.

That may work. LOL
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 05:21 AM

First, just to get some facts straight, butane will not vaporize below -1C. So, as long as you're staying a few degrees above freezing, you will get at least some pressure in a canister of butane.

The most common butane type of stove I've seen looks like the one in the below photo:

Note the butane canister in the photo, which is the type of canister used by this stove. Typically, the canisters contain about 230g of butane. Here in Los Angeles, CA, USA, the canisters are available for as low as $1.00 (USD) each.

These aren't the lightest stoves, so I probably wouldn't take them if I had to carry them on my back, but they're fine for picnics or home use. Here in the US, they're primarily used by the restaurant industry. These stoves and their canisters are about as cheap a stove as you can get.

A word of warning: If you use a large pot on this stove, the pot can reflect heat into the fuel canister. If the fuel canister gets hot enough, it can explode, just like any other stove. It's important to use a pot whose diameter is such that it doesn't significantly overhang the location of the fuel canister.

HJ
Posted by: LED

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Paul810
If you can get it, I think Everclear is the best thing on the market for alcohol stoves. At 190 proof it's 95% alcohol and it's completely food safe. Price varies, but by me it's less than $15 for a fifth. It also works as an antiseptic, and you can even drink it if need be (though I wouldn't advise drinking it straight).


Absolutely agree Everclear (or any consumer grade 95% alcohol) is the best stove fuel hands down. Thats if you can buy it (unfortunately many states do not sell 190 proof) and if its around the price you mentioned. But thats still 750ml of Everclear for $15 vs. almost 1L of denatured alcohol for $6. More than double the price. frown
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 02:50 PM

Here is the (Mini 3hour refillable stove)





http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm


It can be used mostly for warming purposes, not cooking.
Much like a sterno canister

The Sterno is actually much simpler and for picnics and short camping trips, a sterno seems more practical (Maybe evn putting 2 or 3 cans simultaneously for cooking) . But for travellers, there is no guarantee of finding Sternos everywhere I go.

Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 03:56 PM

What would be the advantage of a rechargeable stove over one where you simply attach a canister? Wouldn't a canister be just as easy?

If you're looking for something more compact, the MSR Pocket Rocket is quite compact although the Pocket Rocket uses specialized canisters which are a bit more expensive, and I don't know how available such canisters are in your location.



HJ
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 07:06 PM

The MSR Pocket Rocket is, hands down, my most used stove and I am very happy with it. It has the advantage of being the last type of stove to be banned under dangerous fire conditions. The Achilles heel of the stove is the availability of fuel canisters, although you can use any brand with a Lindahl(sp?) valve. I have done bike tours where I was unable to use the stove, for want of canisters. My solution is to back the PR with an alcohol stove, basically a cat food can with holes. You can get some variety of alcohol fuel anywhere.

There are a couple of other brands, essentially the same as the PR, which I imagine work just about as well. You are basically looking at a burner which screws onto the fuel supply. BTW, you will need to fabricate some type of wind screen to use with this stove (a good idea with almost any setup).
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 07:20 PM

Quote:
What would be the advantage of a rechargeable stove over one where you simply attach a canister? Wouldn't a canister be just as easy?


Generally yes.
But I have explained that a rechargeable stove is easier and safer to put in the luggage and when I reach the destination , I go to ANY store and buy a lighter refilling canister to refill the stove.

A normal detacheable stove canister is only available in camping stores, but a lighter refill canister is available almost everywhere.

And I am not intending this stove for wilderness or camping , but for urban travel (by car or bus).
Posted by: Paul810

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 07:30 PM

The MSR Pocket Rocket is one of my favorite stoves as well. It's relatively inexpensive, compact, light weight, simple to operate, and requires virtually no maintenance. I keep one in my FEMA kit/Bug-Out bag along with a couple of fuel canisters. I also use one with a 4oz fuel container when I'm going day-hiking (or a solo overnight) in areas where fires aren't allowed.

If I wanted a stove for long term use or travel use, I would go with an MSR XGK-EX, simply because it runs on just about any liquid fuel. But, for short term stuff, where I can just replace the canisters when I'm done, I love the Pocket Rocket.

In fact, I think I'm going to buy another to keep in my car. grin
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 08:44 PM

I'm no travel expert, but I think Chisel's approach makes a lot of sense. Especially in the less developed world. Use what the locals have. If it's kerosene, use kerosene. If it's butane, use butane. If it's buffalo chips, use a pot with a tight fitting lid. grin
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
The MSR Pocket Rocket is, hands down, my most used stove ... you can use any brand with a Lindahl(sp?) valve.
In the US, that's pretty much true. The canisters with Lindal valves generally have the standard 7/16ths UNEF threaded connector on them.

HOWEVER, in many places, Europe in particular, Lindal valved canisters will not be threaded. Instead the non-threaded Camping Gaz type Lindal valve canisters are more prevalent. You can buy an adapter, or you can buy an MSR Superfly stove which can take either type of Lindal valve canister, the standard threaded or Camping Gaz non-threaded.

Note: In Eastern Europe and the Middle East, from what I've read, the older type, piercable canisters are all that are available. This type of canister does not have a valve (Lindal or otherwise) and cannot be safely removed from the stove until the canister is empty.

All that said, as much as I like the Pocket Rocket, you have to know where you're going to be using it. The standard, threaded Lindal valved canisters that we take for granted in the North America, Great Britain, Australia, South Korea, and New Zealand (and possibly a few other places) aren't necessarily available elsewhere.

HJ
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Chisel
sterno... is only found in large stores with camping or barbeque sections.


Really? Every grocery store around here sells it- chaffing and fondue pot fuel. If you want to buy in bulk, look for a resturant supply store, you can get it by the case.
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/13/10 10:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Chisel
Quote:
What would be the advantage of a rechargeable stove over one where you simply attach a canister? Wouldn't a canister be just as easy?


Generally yes.
But I have explained that a rechargeable stove is easier and safer to put in the luggage and when I reach the destination , I go to ANY store and buy a lighter refilling canister to refill the stove.

A normal detacheable stove canister is only available in camping stores, but a lighter refill canister is available almost everywhere.

And I am not intending this stove for wilderness or camping , but for urban travel (by car or bus).
OK, OK, I'm a little slow, but now I see exactly why you want a refillable stove. Butane refills for a cigarette lighter would be the most widely available; I agree. I honestly haven't seen refillable stoves available. You might try eBay. If you're just traveling by bus or train, I personally would buy a canister ahead of time and carry the canister with me.

If some type of alcohol stove is an option, then I might try that since I think it will be hard to find a refillable butane stove. There are three types of alcohol that are commonly used for stove fuel:
ethanol (ethyl alcohol) -- Best
methanol (methyl alcohol) -- OK
isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) -- Bad

Ethanol could be a problem in the middle east because ethanol is the kind of alcohol people drink. However, if it's mixed with something that renders it undrinkable, it may still be available. When mixed with something that renders it undrinkable, it is sometimes referred to by names like denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, and meths. You can often get this undrinkable type of alcohol at hardware stores, paint stores, industrial supply stores, pharmacies, etc.

So, I hope you can find a refillable butane stove, but I think you may have a hard time.

Alternatively, get a stove that has detachable canisters and just bring a canister with you. This is what I normally do on trips where I travel by any means except air.

Lastly, you could try some type of stove that burns undrinkable type alcohol if you can find a source of undrinkable type alcohol.

Those are my thoughts. I hope that helps,

HJ
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 04:07 AM

Thanks guys

We have the MSR and all other kinds of small stoves but I haven't given them much thought because of the kind of use I need them for.

If I was camping, I would just depend on my brother who brings the kitchen sink ( almost literally LOL ). Last time we camped, he brought THREE barbeque setups AND a dual stove with 25 pound propane canister. Yup, he fills the Suburban in such a way I have to e-mail GMC to beef up their suspension. LOL

Anyways. That is family camping in our own cars. But when we travel to other cities, I like to have two setups to choose from. One is this refillable butane stove, and the other is an electric kettle plus an iron. I need help finding an iron that allows you to put it upside down , and use the handle as a base. You can then use it for cooking noodles or something. I have seen it once but don't remember where.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 06:37 AM

For your urban travel, consider adding one or more wide-mouth thermos bottles. Add hot water and whatever ingredients you want to cook [noodles, instant soup] to a thermos, close it up and wait [minimum time will vary with size of thermos], and you can wind up with reasonably hot and cooked stuff. I use a travel mug type thermos to cook pasta or oatmeal all the time, even when camping; fill it and forget it until I want to eat.
Posted by: LED

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 07:34 AM

A long time ago I switched to alcohol stoves from primarily using MSR white gas type and propane canister models. I still own a Svea white gas stove which I absolutely love, but alway wind up useing the alcohol stoves due to the ease of use, availabity and cost of fuel. Not to mention you can make one on the spot with soda cans, cat food cans, etc. The only thing simpler would be a homemade "rocket" stick can or hobo stove. FWIW, if your only need is to reheat food and heat water for tea/coffee, for pure urban traveling I'd stick with sterno.
Posted by: Chisel

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 02:51 PM

Great idea dweste. I have to try it.
Maybe I can help it by wrapping the mug in a towel.

All right. I will forget about the upside down iron.
Maybe an electric kettle plus dweste idea will solve the electric cookset issue for air travel.

Regarding car and bus travel
I have a few sternos but will hesitate to take them in a bus luggage. No one will check, but I don't feel comfortable as it may leak or worse ( in summer heat ). But I can still take it on camping trips in our cars.

I love the esbit concept (safer than liquid fuel) but good solid fuel isn't availabe. And I have little idea how practical it is for cooking. Has anyone here tried it ? Any positive or negative thoughts ?

The solid fuel available around me is sold as barbeque starter type. During use it produces a cloud of soot and leaves some residue . I don't feel it safe enough as a cooking fuel. But we use it to start the coals anyway.

I May have to order Esbit fuel online.

Wait an minute !

Has anyone tried merging an Esbit stove with coals ?

You put 2 or 3 coals in the Esbit stove, drop a tiny solid BBQ starter on them ( or a vaselene/cotton ball) . Start the fire, when it near dies, the coals have just started. Put the pot and start cooking. You may need a better wind screen in this case, but it may work.

Fuel is VERY safe for car or bus travel.
Anyone tried that ?
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 04:15 PM

Esbit works well for elementary cooking - boiling water and the like. It does have the advantage of being relatively safe to carry around and store long term. Esbit does well as a fire starter. Disadvantage is that it will deposit soot on your cooking container, but it washes off relatively easily. I use mine with a small titanium holder and an aluminum foil windscreen, a critical item in most outdoor weather. You can also buy an Esbit "stove" but it is needlessly heavy and bulky.

It is available for REI and other on line retailers, about 50 cents per tablet. Most local outdoor retailers in my neck of the woods carry it as well. Surface shipping only.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Chisel

Has anyone tried merging an Esbit stove with coals ?


No - but two things immediately springs to mind:

a) yes, I think it should work. If it's too slow, blow more air into it (add more oxygen).

b) you need to be careful having enough ventilation. Coals make lots and lots of CO, which will kill you if not careful.
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/14/10 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: LED
A long time ago I switched to alcohol stoves from primarily using MSR white gas type and propane canister models... alway wind up useing the alcohol stoves due to the ease of use, availabity and cost of fuel.
If I may ask, where are you getting your alcohol fuel and what are you paying for it? At Home Depot, I can get a gallon of SLX (not the best brand, I realize that) denatured alcohol for around $15.00. At Walmart, I can get a gallon of Coleman Fuel for around $9.00. I'd love to get alcohol fuel for as cheap as I can get Coleman fuel. Do you have a good source?

HJ
Posted by: LED

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/15/10 12:58 AM

Right now I'm using Klean Strip Green Denatured from Home Depot at around $6 a quart. Or you can get the regular Klean Strip for $15 a gallon. Definitely more $$ than coleman white gas ($9 vs. $15-$24 per gallon). I go with the quart sizes cause they're perfect for my usual 3-4 day trips.
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/15/10 04:35 PM

Rats. I thought you might have figured out a deal.

HJ
Posted by: Russ

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/15/10 08:04 PM

Considering the joules per gallon of white gas versus alcohol, I'd stay with white gas.

That said, like many others, my truck/GHB stove is a MSR Pocket Rocket. Great stove, fairly simple but it does require a specific fuel -- carrying extra stuff is what trucks are for.
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/15/10 08:35 PM

The nice thing about typical alcohol stoves is that there are no moving parts. Basically, all you need is a metal cup or pop can cut in half, just something to hold the alcohol while it burns.

Once, I fired up my MSR Whisperlite after not having used it for a few years. An "O" ring had cracked, a bit of fuel leaked, and it burst into flames. Yipes! I got the fire out, but had to replace the pump.

An alcohol stove with it's "nothing to go wrong" design is a nice thing to throw in a kit that you don't intend to get out very often. I know a guy who puts caches in of food and supplies in the areas where he hikes in the backcountry a lot. An alcohol stove is perfect for something like that.

Well, enough thread-jacking for now. smile

As to the original poster's situation, I hope he'll update us on how it goes with trying an Esbit/charcoal combination for trips on the road.

HJ
Posted by: turbo

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/19/10 03:02 AM

Butane stoves or chef Stoves

I was introduced to butane stoves by chefs friends many years ago. They are very versatile, convenient, and safe. By fire code, they are allowed to be used table side in crowded restaurants. The fuel canisters can be installed or removed in less than a second. The stove can be easily operated by anyone familiar with gas ranges, if they have common sense, a rare commodity these days. Once the fuel canister is removed, the stove can be shipped or carried anywhere. If used outdoor, a wind screen may be required. The fuel can be found at many well stocked hardware and grocery stores, but your best bet is restaurant supply stores. By the case, the fuel price is very reasonable. If your normal stove is occupied with other activities, this stove can easily fill in. Last week I used one of mine when my wife forgot she was to make fudge for an evening event when she had our large stove busy with other activities. I had it made in no time at all.

I have made many meals on hunting trips from main meals to bananas flambé on the most unstable platforms. The stove is very stable. As far as large pots are concerned, the fuel canister is protected by a closed lid protecting it from reflected heat. Most of the pots and saute pans I use are very large and heavy and I have never over heated the stove, in fact that is one of the benefits of this stove. Once I have removed the pan or pot, within seconds, the stove grate is cool enough to handle by hand.

All my permanent, alternate locations, and my truck have a butane stove and fuel since it is so convenient. Cold temperatures are its only weakness. But I usually cure that problem before I use this stove.

I carry a number of different fuel stoves with me in my truck, from multi fuel to Kelly Kettles, but if I feel lazy, I just use my butane stove. This stove comes in various forms and can be obtained with storage cases for travel.
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/19/10 10:14 AM

They are pretty handy, and pretty cheap, too. Even a top of the line Iwatani is under $50.
Posted by: Hikin_Jim

Re: Butane gas stoves - 12/27/10 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Chisel
I have seen somewhere a few small stoves that run on butane lighter gas. You just stick that can nozzle in the bottom of the stove, fill it up and you get a stove that is like a super jumbo lighter. Thought it cool and may need something like that for light cooking (maybe some tea, noodles ..etc.) I figured wherever I go , that butane can is available and can use it to recharge the stove.

Any idea about good ones out there ??

Thanks
Hey, Chisel,

I think I found what you're looking for. Check out this eBay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280601798704

No affiliation on my part. Just passing on something I happened to see on eBay.

HJ
Posted by: turbo

Re: Butane gas stoves - 01/02/11 11:54 PM

That eBay auction is for a butane fueled bunson burner not a stove.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Butane gas stoves - 01/03/11 01:01 AM

Perhaps a cooking system such as one of these might fit the bill;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NDJtchU0Ck&feature=grec_index

i.e.

Trangia 27-7 UL / HA or Esbit Alcohol Stove

together with a Go Systems GS2000 gas burner adapter or Trangia Gas Burner.

http://www.go-system.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/296/category/43/

A Gasmate Adapter will allow the use of the cheaper Butane cannisters with bayonet connections.

Cooking in the sub freezing conditions using these cheaper Butane Cartridges wouldn't be a problem if you invert the canister and burn the butane as a liquid rather than a gas. i.e Butane has a melting point of -138.4 °C

Now if only Trangia had an aftermarket compatible 1 litre pot with an inbuilt heat exchanger such as the Primus Eta Power pots for maximum fuel efficiency such as the Esbit Alcohol System.