Urban stealth guidelines?

Posted by: dweste

Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 12:00 PM

How would you go about hiding in plain sight in an urban environment that you know?

How would you camoflague yourself to move through an urban environment that you know without being recognized or noticed?

What guidelines would you follow to find overnight safety and concealment in an urban environment?

Would any of this be reflected in your EDC?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Posted by: bws48

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 12:25 PM

Know the area and choose clothing that is the "same" as the majority of people on the street. Most city dwellers and workers don't really pay attention to the "average Joe" on the street. But someone who stands out will attract attention.

So, if you are in a business district and most everyone is in suits, you need a suit and briefcase. If in an area with lots of construction/factory workers, dress like they do.

The closest to a "universally ignored" outfit I can think of would be something like or identical to one worn by the drivers of the major delivery services. They go everywhere and no one pays attention.

Military "urban" camo will make your stand out: everyone is paranoid and will spot you in a second, and remember you.
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 01:12 PM

Originally Posted By: bws48

The closest to a "universally ignored" outfit I can think of would be something like or identical to one worn by the drivers of the major delivery services. They go everywhere and no one pays attention.


Yep. With a name patch sewn on a Dickie's work shirt, a clipboard in your hand, and maybe a few tools in a belt pouch, you can go almost anywhere on the planet and not be questioned.
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 01:17 PM

Originally Posted By: dweste

What guidelines would you follow to find overnight safety and concealment in an urban environment?

Would any of this be reflected in your EDC?


Yes. I avoid anything that looks "tacti-cool." My bugout clothes and pack are plain, in low observable colors like khaki that blend somewhat in the bush, but don't look too out of place on a city bus, either.
Posted by: ireckon

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 09:32 PM

Yeah, if you dress like others in an urban environment, a city like New York or San Francisco can be the loneliest place in the world. Nobody will even see you!
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 10:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeff_M
Yep. With a name patch sewn on a Dickie's work shirt, a clipboard in your hand, and maybe a few tools in a belt pouch, you can go almost anywhere on the planet and not be questioned.


Every major building, and most organizations, have a number of 'faceless' functionaries that handle infrastructure tasks. Janitors, building superintendents, maintenance personnel. These people are not expected to interact with the public. Blank looks and mumbled answers are the expected response if confronted. When in doubt adopt a vague, disinterested, blank look. Remember that the highlight of your days are quitting time and payday. Which works out because you are often not going to have enough information to give a detailed response.

A clipboard and stack of official looking forms, particularly vague 'work orders', and a picture ID from a company with a completely opaque name, like Universal Logistics and Management, helps sell it. Presenting yourself as an outside contractor offers an excuse for a lack of local knowledge.
Posted by: MDinana

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/23/10 10:57 PM

Go to the local thrift store, grab a dingy set of clothes, grow out the beard a little, let the hair get a bit shaggy. No one cares/notices the homeless as a general rule (OK, yeah, there are charities, but I wonder if their members notice them when not at work).

Overnight safety depends on the city. Philly in mid winter is a lot different than Miami in mid summer. Weather concerns are paramount, going where you won't be hassled by the cops while being safe from other drifters would be important.
Posted by: Richlacal

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 02:37 AM

The Color Gray,Like Stone or Comrade in Moscow Gray,I think is going to be the Stealthiest color for an Urban Environment,Sweatshirt/Sweatpants/Black or White Tennys & Your good to go,As long as it's Not a Freezing/Snowy Winter Laden area!
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 06:30 AM

Where, in a city you know, would be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

Where, in a suburb you know, would it be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

What, if anything other than more money, would you add to your EDC to increase such safety?
Posted by: quick_joey_small

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 07:56 AM

>Where, in a city you know, would be relatively safe for someone on >foot to sleep for the night?
>Where, in a suburb you know, would it be relatively safe for >someone on foot to sleep for the night?
>What, if anything other than more money, would you add to your EDC >to increase such safety?

I've slept safely in parks, by simply hiding in the bushes. A tent adds greatly to my safety, since no one knows if there is me, or two giants in there. Tying the door shut is an idea too.

qjs
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: dweste
Where, in a city you know, would be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

Where, in a suburb you know, would it be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

What, if anything other than more money, would you add to your EDC to increase such safety?


These types of questions are always too broad in scope. Define the circumstance(s) possible scenario for each. For example:

Where, in a city you know, would be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

Why would you be on foot? Civil unrest, man made or natural disaster, terrorist attack, vehicle breaking down 20 miles away on the other side of the city, spouse kicked you out? Is this scenario in the middle of summer or winter? Have you considered the overall safety of the AO you may find yourself in?

All these varibles makes a huge difference in deciding where to sleep for the night and every person's situation will be unique.


Posted by: MDinana

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: dweste
Where, in a city you know, would be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

Where, in a suburb you know, would it be relatively safe for someone on foot to sleep for the night?

What, if anything other than more money, would you add to your EDC to increase such safety?

Agree w/ Teslinhiker. I could be safe in my car - I've done it before. Or safe at the beach. Or in any of the larger city parks, with the right foliage. Or a homeless shelter. Heck, in some of the backyards of the wealthier. You just have to be creative.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
All these varibles makes a huge difference in deciding where to sleep for the night and every person's situation will be unique.


And it is how to adapt to each variable with which you have some experience or thought which I seek. If you can share, please do.

I appreciate your response but have no wish to limit this discussion to some narrow set of conditions. Instead I seek whatever it is that you have to add. If your experience is too broad and encyclopedic to post in a reasonably concise way, perhaps you could post about just a few situations. If you wish to frame a response by identifying the variables in a scenario first, then feel free.

My hope is to stimulate a broad set of responses that can offer ideas to ETS community members wherever and whenever they might find themselves. This could allow us a broad education and lots of different fuel for consideration and inspiration.

Thanks.

[Besides the narrow questions are too easy for this braintrust!]
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 08:24 PM

an article in Tactical Knives by Jeff Randall tweaked my interest in this ETS forum...surviving the jungles of South America with only water, machete, poncho,and mosquito netting... my 72hr kit is built around a poncho, water filter bottle, and mosquito head net (w/boonie hat)....sitting on a 5gal bucket and leaning against a tree I don't make a readily identifiable silhouette..almost a ghillie suit for a city park, the disruptive pattern of the camo on the poncho is ideal if you can find minimal undergrowth and effective use of shadows..and is easily rolled or stowed in a pouch for discrete transport... conversely as an old retired guy, I could probably reverse my sleep pattern...find a nice sunny spot in the park or beach area... set up a folding camp chair and sleep in the cool morning or late afternoon...
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/24/10 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: dweste
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
All these varibles makes a huge difference in deciding where to sleep for the night and every person's situation will be unique.


And it is how to adapt to each variable with which you have some experience or thought which I seek. If you can share, please do.


My hope is to stimulate a broad set of responses that can offer ideas to ETS community members wherever and whenever they might find themselves. This could allow us a broad education and lots of different fuel for consideration and inspiration.

Thanks.


I'll pass on this one. There have been plenty of very good discussions here on this same subject that many have contributed great suggestions for in the recent past.
Posted by: LED

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 12:48 AM

FWIW, many of the homeless individuals I see sleep during the day and are awake at night. During the day they can sleep/nap in public places in relative safety, while at night its a very different environment. They also tend to hang out in small groups, especially at night, that way one member of the group is always awake. I also routinely see creatively concealed hideouts in doorways and landscaping areas of very active office buildings. Addictions and mental issues aside, the chronicly homeless are very adept at surviving in the city.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 01:33 AM

The hardest part is body language. I say that as someone who has been told point blank that I have scary body language, even when I'm laughing.

Most of us, to use Star Trek terminology *chuckles*, are probably on Yellow Alert. Heads up, eyes moving. We have a should bag or a small pack with us to clear our hands most of the time, or we carry light enough to keep it all in our pockets. We move briskly, with a purpose, even when we are "dawdling", but lightly- our feet don't go clump-clump-clump.

At least, that's what I've gotten from the preppers I know face to face. We don't move like we were military (unless we were), but we don't move like most people. We don't have our heads down, we don't shuffle or slump or hunch our shoulders.

And the "tactical" packs- I agree, to a degree. Black backpacks and laptop cases are pretty common. Don't hang a lot of stuff of it, and you should be good so long as it isn't OD or camo. I actually spot grey, kahki and darker, non camo greens faster than I do a black bag, but I could be use to looking for the "grey man".
Posted by: Richlacal

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 02:34 AM

Here in Los Angeles,I've found if You Stink,Nobody is Gonna' mess with you,Including the Police,After getting a Whiff from afar downwind,I have learned to give Wide Berth,& As such,There is Nothing Stealthy about Stench! When you Stink,You Stand out,Doesn't matter what you are wearing!I Nominated the color Gray,As It Blends in the best amongst Crowds of people in Metropolitan Areas of Los Angeles.If I wanted to be Completely Un-noticable,I'd Camp on the side of the Extensive Freeway system we have here,same goes for the South East,Anywhere along a Turnpike or Toll Road,I've caught some amazing numbers of Bream & Bass alongside the Turnpike in South Florida,Plenty of other critters to eat as well,should the need arise.I've also concluded,Where I live in LA,there won't be any Bugging Out,for Catastrophic Anything!
Posted by: LED

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 07:38 AM

Very true Rich, but to develop a nauseating stink that bad is a health hazard, seriously. Course you could always carry a loaded dog poop bag around. Thats like kryptonite. Anyone comes near you just start swingin it around. sick
Posted by: Richlacal

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 04:30 PM

LED-I wasn't advocating to develop a Stench,lol!You know as well as me,Most if not All of the folks,camped out in front of doorways,under stairs,etc.,etc.,Usually have a "Certain"Stench,All their own!I have Nothing against Anyone for being Homeless,I do However advocate-Personal Hygeine!This thread is about Urban Stealth,I pointed out the fact, that Stench is Not Stealthy,by any means!Anywhere in Venice,Santa Monica,West Los Angeles,Marina Del Rey-There are literally 1000's to choose from,& It's an easy guess you developed your post,as per.Downtown Los Angeles is a Whole,Different Ball Game!Everything we are discussing here is quite Valid,as it is Pro/Con,& I'm All for it!
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 04:34 PM

FYI, the term "gray man" is used to mean sharks, particularly great white sharks, by kayakers and surfers in the California area. I believe the term may also be used in come communities to generally refer to whatever or whoever poses the biggest threat, for example, IRS.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 07:22 PM

We have a well-respected ETS member whose screen name is
Am Fear Liath Mor. Put his name into a search engine to learn another take on the grey man.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 10:11 PM

[quote=dwesteused in come communities to generally refer to whatever or whoever poses the biggest threat [/quote]

I also hadn't heard the term used this way before, but it makes sense to me- it's why the guys going grey stick out to me. They try to blend in, but something is off about them. It's like looking for unmarked police cars- look for the same basic model they use for patrol or a low-mid cost sedan or light SUV in a neutral color, with extra antennas and junk on the dashboard.
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: ironraven

I also hadn't heard the term used this way before, but it makes sense to me- it's why the guys going grey stick out to me. They try to blend in, but something is off about them.


Thats interesting, can you elaborate on what you think is "off" about them.

In my AO, the everyday person wearing everyday clothes and carrying non-camo/military style gear (backpacks) blend in the best.

If I see a person walking down the street wearing blue jeans or khakis and carrying a regular backpack I usually don't give them more then a passing look.
Posted by: Richlacal

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/25/10 10:51 PM

Hoot Mon,Am Ferly Mor!In The Highlands of Scotland I beleive It refers to their Yeti/Boggy Creek Big Foot! I've heard stories,When I was a young Lad,About him & Nessie,them swimming,aside of each other,suracing in Loch Ness,then Surfacing in Loch Lomond,the next day!Good stuff for kid's when camping near dark bodies of water! I think the Surfers refer to The Gray Dude!:)
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 02:39 AM

Like I said, we don't move like most people. It's a vibe, I can describe it anecdotaly, but I can't really put it into a clear definition.

Maybe some of the law enforcement members might be able to describe it better than I have, but it has to do with head up, eyes open, always moving, always scanning body language.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 05:36 AM

Mammalian behaviors are pretty well known; some trigger fight-or-flight responses and some do not. All mammals can read these signs from a long way off.

A loose, moderate pace, feet hitting the ground softly, head moving slowly about, looking with no particular focus, shoulders relaxed and down, and, if talking, a quiet, unhurried, soft-toned voice, signal "I am not fleeing or hunting, or a threat to you."

A tighter, quicker pace, feet hitting the ground hard, head on a constant quicker swivel, looking with laser-like intense focus, shoulders tensed and up, and, if talking, an intense. clipped, harsh-toned voice, signal "I am fleeing or hunting, and may be a threat if you catch my attention."

Of course, being the devious beings we are, knowing these things we can fake one or the other!

The science of body language is about these "vibes."
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 09:44 AM

More "vibes" stuff:

Because these are common mammal behaviors, we can "read" other species' behavior to some extent even without knowing much about them otherwise. The angry bear, moose, or squirrel is usually pretty obvious to even a first-time human observer.

The two contrasting behavior sets above are, of course, only two of many clusters of behaviors. Most of us could describe victim-come-prey-on-me and puzzled-intrigued-what-the-heck-is-this behaviors, for example.

There are other typical behavior clues for each set, such as how the individual treats any object tht catches their attention. Because we do the same, we pretty much know what it means about an individual's attitude at the moment when they play with a small stick for a while, or stomp-break-destroy it, or just mildly kick it once in passing without further attention, for example.

More on point for this thread, we can identify in others and mimic to others various human behaviors: angery-don't-mess-with-me, crazy-let's-talk-about-weird-stuff-forever, busy-no-time-for-you, bored-lazy-darn-more-work, and so on. Think: acting!

So we have a Swiss army knife set of behaviors we can use to project different messages to help us fit into and essentially disappear from notice in various urban scenarios, or to stand out as someone to avoid rather than victimize. Pretty hard to do while sleeping though!
Posted by: bws48

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 10:15 AM

John Astin, the actor who played "Gomez" in "The Addams Family" TV show during the 1960's once described how, as a young starving actor he survived living in one of New York city's worst crime ridden neighborhoods without ever getting bothered.

He said that when he was on the street, he would try (and apparently managed) to look crazier than anyone else on the street. grin

The right body language will protect you.
Posted by: Eugene

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 10:52 AM

Years ago I had to drive around through several states for a job. I had a small truck (Chevy S10) with a cap on the back and all my tools and gear there. I kept a few empty boxes of phone and network cable with one side cut out and would slip them over top of my suitcase or any other personal gear then put the boxes that had cable in them on top.
I hang on to old clothes, use those for work around the house, be it painting or changing oil or whatever and if we ever did bug in for an extended time I'd wear those to look rough and dirty and blend in.
Posted by: Famdoc

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/26/10 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: bws48
John Astin, the actor who played "Gomez" in "The Addams Family" TV show during the 1960's once described how, as a young starving actor he survived living in one of New York city's worst crime ridden neighborhoods without ever getting bothered.

He said that when he was on the street, he would try (and apparently managed) to look crazier than anyone else on the street. grin

The right body language will protect you.



Doing so has an ancient pedigree: David, before he became King,- 1 Samuel: 21:10-15.

Drool - there's little else like drool to make others think you harbor no malign intent.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/27/10 02:01 AM

When I walk into a restaurant, I carefully scan the room looking for what's on people's plates, plus their expression while consuming it, in order to make an optimum selection from the menu; plus I carefully note where the bathrooms are in order to avoid sitting too closely lest the smell impair my palatal sensations.

Oh, and I do a thorough visual assessment of the windows, entrances, and exits looking for large paper notices of any daily "specials" (two-for-one's, half-offs, and what not). ;-)
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/27/10 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: bws48
John Astin, the actor who played "Gomez" in "The Addams Family" TV show during the 1960's once described how, as a young starving actor he survived living in one of New York city's worst crime ridden neighborhoods without ever getting bothered.

He said that when he was on the street, he would try (and apparently managed) to look crazier than anyone else on the street. grin

The right body language will protect you.


When my wife and I first moved into the So Cal town where we currently have lived now for the past 23 years, John Astin came up to us one night when we were walking around downtown and invited us to go to a Buddhist meeting he was attending at a friend's house. He just came right up to us out of the blue, and introduced himself. My wife, a TV nut, recognized him right away, and readily agreed to go along cuz we were naive, fresh out of small-town Iowa, and easily impressed by anything resembling celebrity. He could have been John Astin the Axe Murderer for all I knew. Anyway, we went to John's Buddhist meeting at a condo near where we were shopping, and there were about 15 or so other people there, chanting and kneeling and Renge Kyo-ing away cheerfully. And John basically spent about 15 minutes on his knees in front of us trying to convince us that our way to salvation was by becoming Buddhists. I allowed as how that we were adequately salvated already, and that we had managed to escape our imprisonment in Iowa by being perfectly good Presbyterians and didn't need any further help from him and his Buddhist pals. We parted friends and never saw each other again, thankfully.

I don't know why exactly I related that story except that bws48's post dredged it out of the back drawer of my memory.
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/27/10 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: NightHiker
[quote=ironraven]During the national anthem at a public event if you think somebody is prior military (or active and in civilian clothing) look at how they position their left hand, the different branches have slight variations in the position of attention. Army and Air Force stand with a closed fist with their knuckles parallel to the floor whereas USMC and Navy close their fist with their thumb and forefinger along the seam of their pants and the knuckles basically at 45 degree angle to the floor. They have different grooming standards too and although an Army ranger's high and tight haircut may look the same to most people as a Marine's those of us who have been around them can distinguish between the two without a second glance.


The Army also has your left hand curled, thumb overlapping fingers, lined with outside seam. Also, Rangers no longer wear high and tights-it is now discouraged, actually. There are several reasons for this-the foremost is that Rangers usually provide security during special ops tactical strikes (hostage retrieval, high profile snatchings, etc). The bad guys in the mideast quickly learned who the Rangers were, and who the REAL threats were-by looking at their haircuts. As a result, the Rangers have relaxed their hair grooming standards, to better blend with the operators doing the high risk stuff. It was requested specifically to JSOC after several incidences of targeted hits during raids.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/27/10 09:44 PM

And all the young guys in our So Cal town's police department now look like they're former Rangers.
Posted by: comms

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/28/10 06:05 PM

Its a good thing Gen Shalikashvili decided to really confuse the enemy by taking the time honored and traditional black beret from the Rangers and giving it to the other 99.9% of the US Army and making Rangers switch to a tan beret.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 10/30/10 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: dweste
Think: acting! [H]ave a Swiss army knife set of behaviors


You, my mother, and the mothers of two of my best friends all have used almost the same exact phrasing. Been trying that method for 20 years- I've been told that I look like fox wearing a chicken suit. I'm the decoy. The rest of ya'll can use me to flush the bad guys or distract them. *laughs*

But I think you might have hit it with the walking- I know that I spent so much time in the wood trying to be quiet as a kid that I have to actually go out of my way to make noise when I walk.
Posted by: dropout

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/01/10 10:39 PM


I had a night a couple years back I will never forget:

It was summertime and I was in a friends back yard where he was teaching me graffiti styles spray painting on ply-wood. It was dark in the neighborhood but we had plenty of light in the back yard to paint. After an hour of working a man about 30 years old walked in through the back gate and asked me if I was interested in buying his ball cap. Immediately I was expecting the worst. But as I had no money to spend I let him know there was nothing I could do for him. This didn't stop him from asking me if I wanted to buy his ball and his shoes from him for $5. This conversation started worrying me. He was offering to sell me shoes he had on. I was thinking this guy is nuts but I kept those feelings in. I told him I was seriously broke and had noting to buy it with. So he asked for a smoke and I gave him one. As we lit up I tried to stay calm and not [censored] this guy off and I'm glad I did. As we finished our smokes he started to explain that he had been released from prison 9 hours earlier. And if that wasn't enough he then lifted his shirt to show me what looked like a 9mm pistol in his belt. Not only did he lift his shirt he also drew the weapon to show me. Every cell in my body wanted out of that situation but I refused to panic. I continued in polite conversation making sure to not seem condescending and in a few minutes he thanked me for the smoke and walked out the way he came in and disappeared. It was then that I started shaking and feeling nauseous. I had come through a situation that was life threatening unscathed. I think about that night a lot. I wonder what horrors he may have committed on other people he encountered that night. Did someone tell him to f&@k off or pull out a wad of cash to buy his cap? Since then I make sure I do three things.

1. I never looked lost. Especially when I am.
2. I never look rich. I dress down as much as I can.
3. I let confrontations slip off like water. I don't react violently when verbally assaulted. There are people out there begging for a fight. Don't give them one and they usually move on.

Jeans, tennis shoes, hoodie, back-pack. Walk like you live two doors down. In the city I look like I live here. Nothing to see. People moving fast or looking around a lot attract attention. Aggressive looking people attract attention.

But thats if I'm having to move during the day. If I can help it I'll move at night. Using alleys and city parks. According to the police reports in my city most people are attacked on the sidewalks. A few in their cars. A smaller amount in their homes. I walk home from work after 1am and I almost exclusively use the alleys. The only people I ever encounter are the police. And when they see I.D. me I'm on my merry way.

be good.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 01:37 AM

Originally Posted By: dropout

But thats if I'm having to move during the day. If I can help it I'll move at night. Using alleys and city parks.


If you can do that, I admire your alleys. The alley behind my house is frequented by pimps, prostitutes, wife beaters, drug dealers, drug addicts, bums, lunatics, graffiti artists, alcoholics, thieves, murderers, and the masseuses from the Thai Massage place two doors down (nothing against the masseuses). I believe the local constabulary are happy to have this concentration of personages localized to this alley rather than spread too thickly around the rest of the neighborhood.

Oh, being a masseuse at the Thai Massage must pay extremely well. I've observed that the ladies drive, by far, the nicest cars in town--generally BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus's, etc etc. This is somewhat amazing to me. I know this because they regularly park directly in front of my house.

I try to avoid the alley unless I absolutely have to go back there, and I certainly avoid it after dark.
Posted by: dropout

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 02:33 AM

LOL- I do love my alleys. There are more places to walk unnoticed. Your alley sound pretty exotic. And the only things on your list to worry about are lunatics and murderers. And if you have a high concentration of those behind your house you aren't safe living there not to mention leaving through your front door! The message girls seem fine maybe you could make it through :P
Posted by: LED

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 03:52 AM

Originally Posted By: sotto
I try to avoid the alley unless I absolutely have to go back there, and I certainly avoid it after dark.


Alleys, especially long stretches, aren't the safest places to be even in upscale areas. I also try to avoid driving in alleys cause the man sized potholes and debris that accumulates can easily puncture a tire. The 5 min. traffic shortcut isn't worth a flat.
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: dropout
After an hour of working a man about 30 years old walked in through the back gate ... then lifted his shirt to show me what looked like a 9mm pistol in his belt. ... I had come through a situation that was life threatening unscathed. I think about that night a lot. I wonder what horrors he may have committed on other people he encountered that night. Did someone tell him to f&@k off or pull out a wad of cash to buy his cap? Since then I make sure I do three things.

1. I never looked lost. Especially when I am.
2. I never look rich. I dress down as much as I can.
3. I let confrontations slip off like water.


4. I bought locks for my and my friend's back gates?
5. I immediately called the cops and gave them a complete description and last direction of travel?

Seriously, though, it sounds like you handled yourself well in a tough spot and you shared good advice. Thanks and welcome.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeff_M

5. I immediately called the cops and gave them a complete description and last direction of travel?


That is a very good suggestion. But, in my town, the cops would have basically said, "And you're bothering us with this because????"

Seriously.

"Hello, _____________ Police Department. You say a man came in through your back gate? Did he assault you in any way? Did he threaten you? No? OK, then, you say he showed you a gun. How do you know it was a real gun? Did he point it at you? Did he attempt to rob you? No? OK, well did he.....what, you say he just walked off and left you? He didn't do anything to you? He just left? Nothing else?? Oh, OK. Well, thanks for calling."

"Oh, by the way. Was that your property? What exactly did you say you were doing back there..something about graffiti??"

I'm happy nothing happened to you. Good advice to lock your gate, and not talk to strangers.
Posted by: JBMat

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/02/10 08:48 PM

One provisio.

Never dress as the cable guy, unless you are the cable guy.

NOTHING is more guaranteed to get you noticed - first from the deadbeats who haven't paid and think you are there to turn off their TV; second from the people with problems and just know you are there to fix them, even though they never called; and third from the people who want free cable.

Learned this one from experience. Had notes left on my windshield, people sitting in the back of my pickup waiting on me.
Posted by: dropout

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/04/10 09:10 PM

Hey sotto- agreed. The cops would have not done much. As far as the property. Yes it was my friends home and we were doing graffiti. There have been attempts to legitimize graffiti in the city to try and wrangle it in. Several store owners have paid graffiti artists to produce works on their buildings. Anyway, it's always been and interesting form of art and being an artist myself I can't resist therge to learn different forms. This was NOT a vandilism situation.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/05/10 12:07 AM

Dropout: Thanks, and yes it was clear you were "learning" to graffiti. Without passing any judgment on it personally, in my city, paid for or not, I'm afraid graffiti became so ubiquitous as to have lost it's impact and appeal. Right or wrong, people now pay tax money to paint over it immediately when it crops up.

By the way, my wife is an artist and makes a substantial part of her living at it. Best of luck to you!
Posted by: handle

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/20/10 06:52 PM

if you are talking shtf, I'd try the storm drains. Whether or not you "fit in", you are likely to be a victim if people are desperate. If they are not, why care if you fit in or not? Just be a black belt and a Class A combat shot, and ccw your pistol. Let them try, find out the hard way.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/20/10 07:08 PM


Bear Grylls urban survival. Lesson 2: Personal Safety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbppCf--rNs

Although playing this from a ghetto blaster should be enough to keep away the NEDs whilst walking down Dundee High Street when the SHTF. blush
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/21/10 12:28 AM

Actually a simple anonymous call to police of a "man with a gun" with a description usually gets a ride-by and questioning of anyone matching that description.

Would you like to place odds what the chances are the guy has a permit, a concealed weapons permit? He may have been lying but if his out-of-jail story is true he can't legally carry a gun. Then there is display of a firearm and potentially 'menacing', the combination of asking for money and showing a firearm. At the very least it would be violation of parole and back to hole for you.

Hard to put a positive spin on a guy with a gun walking into people's back yards, people he does not know, and asking if they want to buy his hat and shoes. Could be someone's crazy uncle who lives with his family down the street I guess but likely the police would know about such a character and strongly suggest he not wander around armed.

Odds are he was up to no good and given a few days the police would be involved, along with one or more people injured or dead, anyway. 'He left but the encounter left me feeling uncomfortable and nervous' is as good an ending as that sort of story gets. A false move on either side and it could have gotten ugly. Giving the police a heads-up on the guy would be doing the neighborhood a favor.

A lot depends on the neighborhood. I've lived in a few where reporting every menacing panhandler and out-of-place person would keep you busy. After a while you get a feeling for which ones are dangerous and which are simply a nuisance.
Posted by: dropout

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/22/10 03:23 AM

A couple details that were left out of my story.

1. It was in Chicago so I know he didn't have a conceal and carry permit.
2. He was probably ~25-30 years old (not the crazy uncle next door)
3. There is no "next door". The apartment was a three-flat in a small residential area inside a larger industrial area. The buildings around it had been reduced to rubble for some type of development. There isn't even a 7-11 for 5 blocks.
4. It was night time. He was brandishing a gun during the day.
5. I've never been back to this guys house.

I've been fortunate to not repeat a situation like this since. The event happened in 2000 and unfortunately I didn't report it to the police. I guess I didn't think of it. A lot has changed since and to be honest it's taken me years to understand what that situation was all about. I still get shivers thinking about what "could have been".

I guess what I've learned is:

People are desperate even when it's not a shtf type scenario. And sometime survival takes more than cans of food and good shooting skills.

Be good friends.

D
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/22/10 06:50 AM

IMHO, such encounters highlight the observation that people are unpredictable and potentially dangerous. Such encounters have, as a friend put it, 'a whole lot of ways they can go south'.

Odds are both you, and he, were scared. He has no idea how you would react and if you were armed. Begging for money and offering shoes is an act of desperation. People without resources to fall back on, probably nursing one or more addictions, are always just a few steps from the edge.

Being afraid likely made him more aggressive than he might have been. Fear makes people want approach situations quickly, to get it over with and to limit the other sides chances of being prepared. A lot of people would throw money at the situation to both relive their guilt and end an uncomfortable encounter. This reinforces the use of the tactic to beg aggressively and to imply a threat, Even when they have no intent of using violence.

Even without conscious intent it has to be noted that many street people are armed in some way. Arming themselves is a way of leveling the field, protecting what little remaining dignity they have left, and protecting the few resources remaining. Homeless people are prey to every street tough and bully there is. Physical, mental, emotional and sexual abuse are common. Many, if not most homeless people arm themselves. Knives, sticks, lighter fluid/Lysol and a lighter (poor man's flamethrower), hot sauce (poor man's mace) and guns, if they can manage to get them, are common. A broken bottle or artfully folded can work as rough knife.

Desperate, hurting (you don't beg unless your in some sort of pain. Mental or physical.), with a history of getting hurt and society not protecting him (lots of street people have histories of abuse and abandonment), feeling like everyone is against him, and with nothing to lose he could easily panic. Add a little western macho posturing (it is better to go out in a blaze of glory, a bang, than a whimper), some moral leveling ( I'll show them they can't step on me and get away with it) and you are looking at an emotional powder keg waiting for a match. Odds are if/when he goes off people get hurt.

Funny thing is that on their own, and not under threat, street people are not naturally violent. Mostly they play the victim. "Rolling drunks" and "bum fights" is a sport imposed on the homeless culture from outside. When they do get violent it is usually a result of pent up rage, disorientation from drugs and mental illness, or fear. If you had been armed and reached for a weapon there is little doubt he would have reacted adversely. What form that takes is anyone's guess.

As it is everyone walked away healthy. That is a win in my book. No worries that you didn't call the cops. IMO it would have been something of a service if you had but it is always a judgment call. One highly contingent, on a lot of other factors.

In some areas calling the police is a way to make your life more miserable. Snitches gets you more abuse. Also cops don't always assume the person who calls is innocent. Hassling people who call is a nice way to keep the work load low and enforce economic and racial boundaries by letting people know which side they are on. It happens a lot in some areas.
Posted by: sotto

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/23/10 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

In some areas calling the police is a way to make your life more miserable. Snitches gets you more abuse. Also cops don't always assume the person who calls is innocent. Hassling people who call is a nice way to keep the work load low and enforce economic and racial boundaries by letting people know which side they are on. It happens a lot in some areas.


That certainly supports many of my and my neighbors observations here-abouts. The "face" of the police department is usually the person who answers the phone, who may or not be

--interested
--intelligent
--helpful
--capable, or
--"on your side".

Unfortunately, that person has a major influence on how sensitive and helpful the police are to your concerns. You may find it necessary to request the assistance of another person who is "more interested in the safety and security of citizens in your neighborhood". ;-) You may need to request this assistance more than once in the course of talking to someone at your local PD.
Posted by: Grouch

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 11/23/10 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
Also cops don't always assume the person who calls is innocent.

In some cases, the caller is not innocent. Sometimes the offender will call to throw the cops off of their track. It's best that the cops don't assume anything, other than possible danger from all present parties, until they have performed at least a cursory investigation.
Posted by: gulliamo

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 12/06/10 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: dweste
How would you go about hiding in plain sight in an urban environment that you know?

How would you camoflague yourself to move through an urban environment that you know without being recognized or noticed?


Sorry to be the voice of contention here but this sounds like the type of question only asked by people who never spend time in urban environments. The beauty of city living, compared to small-town USA, is that no one gives a damn what you look like. On my sidewalk on any given day I have Hasidic Jews (think Amish black traditional garb), yuppie joggers, cops, doormen, delivery personnel, postal workers, single moms, the can-lady (big cart full of 5 cent cans), Wall St. brokers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, accountants, athletes, skaters, drug dealers, drug users, drunks (besides me), kids, teens, elderly, etc.

The point is there's not an "urban dress code". No one is going to see you walking through midtown with your Kelty backpack full of firestarters and fishhooks and yell "Look! There's someone without True Religion Jeans!" Avoid the tacti-cool look of Brigade Quartermaster crowd and you'll be fine.

And if you ever really lost in NYC just look me up and I'll give you a safe place to stay. ;-)
Posted by: dweste

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 12/06/10 01:17 AM

As the OP, I was thinking about the "games" being "played" where one individual or group of friends is trying to track and find another, while a second individula or group is trying to "escape-and-evade" for a given time period. The purpose of such games as I understand it is to heighten awareness and develop plain sight hiding skills.

But, any thoughts are welcome.
Posted by: sybert777

Re: Urban stealth guidelines? - 12/06/10 01:05 PM

Wear camouflage, move slowly and be quiet. Unless there are dogs, there is little chance of you being smelled out, unless you bathe in AXE!!