Preparing for Campus Shooting

Last month there was another campus shooting -- this time at Univ. of Texas at Austin. Even though this time around it looked more like a public suicide, it looks like those of us who go to school, work at a school, or even take kids to school, really have to be prepared for a gunman or two. So let me put it to the collective wisdom of the forum: you are in a classroom, guy walks in with a gun -- what do you pull out to stop him?

You need something relatively compact so you can carry it on your person or in your bag/briefcase. It has to have some range to reach across a classroom -- 20-30 feet for a small room, and more for a lecture hall. It has to have stopping power -- enough to stop the gunman so the braver people can rush him and take him down. It may need to deliver more than one shot in case of multiple gunmen.

You can't carry firearms on campus unless you want to risk getting expelled, fired, arrested & jailed, or worse, mistaken for a homicidal shooter by the SWAT sniper. So that's out. Taser can have the same problem, depending on the local campus' definition of a weapon. So what's left?

I looked into various types of pepper spray, but I'm not sure that they'd work:

-- The Mace Pepper Gun is small and has some range (25'). It delivers a stream -- unclear how accurate the stream is at the long end of its reach. It lacks a laser to help you aim.

-- The Kimber JPX Jet Protector has a slightly shorter range (23'), but it seems to be able to fire two shots of liquid OC at 270 mph, which increases the impact. But it only has two shots. You can reload, while getting shot at, I suppose. Kimber also has discontinued this item.

-- Pepperball Technologies seems to make the most powerful devices. It looks like they basically adapt various paintball markers to fire OC-filled balls that explode upon impact. It's reassuring that they also make Pava-filled pepperballs. Because these launchers shoot the balls with compressed air, they probably deliver the biggest percussive impact. The Flash Launcher has an integrated 100-lumen flash and a laser sight, plus the ability to fire five pepperballs with a range of 30'. It is a bit on the big side, though, being basically an 11" cylinder. If you watch a demo on Youtube, you'll see that firing it with accuracy requires holding the launcher with two hands and bracing it against your belly. And even then you're still off by a few inches.

-- Another Pepperball product is the SA-8 launcher, which is basically adapted from a Tiberius Arms paintball pistol. The shape is more amenable to accurate firing, but it's getting rather big at 11" long and 8" high. Definitely a bag item, and not concealable on your body. And let's forget about launchers the size of an Uzi or carbine. (I looked into using other paintball pistols -- apparently these pepperballs are the standard 68 caliber. The problem is that because the CO2 cartridge has to go somewhere, these pistols can't ever get that small.)

-- I also found something called the PepperGun, which is from a company based in South Africa. It's a rather large and intimidating-looking pepperball pistol, probably also adapted from a paintball marker.

With pepper guns/sprays, the biggest concern is the stopping power. If you watch live tests on Youtube, it's not clear how bad the effect is. It seems to take a second or two for the OC to set in, and in that time the gunman could squeeze off a few rounds in a crowded classroom. So it doesn't seem to me like a good solution.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Don't tell me to set phaser to stun.

Da Bing

If you rule out a firearm, in reality the most effective option is probably a Taser. The Taser is effective, *if* you can hit the aggressor. Then, you have a 30 second window in which you need to be the heck out of dodge, or restrain the attacker.

OC spray has a large amount of variability in its effectiveness which boils down to... it isn't something you can count on but it is better than nothing.

I don't really trust the pepperball type thingies. They might have more range, but you need to consider the amount of OC they can contain is much smaller, and you don't have the chance to "walk" the spray into the target like you do with an OC stream.

If you go with OC, I'd say go with a good quality OC like Fox Labs, and get the biggest can you can get.

-john

Not for nothing, but if someone comes into a classroom with a firearm and starts shooting, the first thing everyone is going to do is panic, with most people trying to run away. Unless you are sitting right in front of the door the perpetrator walks in at, it's going to be tough to employ any type of defensive mechanism. You would most likely end up getting trampled by the other students in the classroom....especially in a large lecture hall setting.

Not to mention, you're already at a tactical disadvantage, as they are most likely better armed, they've already got their weapon in their hands, and they may even have the element of surprise on their side.

With this being the case, first thing I would do, if I was in the kind of situation, is throw my backpack over my shoulders to help cover my upper body and start running towards the closest viable exit. The idea being, between the chaos of everyone running away and having my book filled backpack covering my vitals, I would lessen my chance of receiving a fatal injury as much as possible (short of going to class wearing a ballistic vest.)

Even if I had a firearm on me, you can bet your butt I would be running unless I was absolutely cornered or found myself unable to move and had to fight back. Sometimes it's best to know when to retreat and regroup.

Bear spray. You can keep it in your bag or wear it on a chest harness or belt. But you've only got 7 seconds of spray so your hand better not be shaking too bad.

http://www.rei.com/product/623173


The few highly publicized college shootings have been tragic, but I'd feel safer in a college classroom than just about anywhere else in an urban area.

Welcome to ETS.

A suitable backpack such as Macpac Rapaki 28+ with a Dyneema Polyethylene Level III 10x12 Ballistic Plate stored inside should give you some protection in this scenario. A fixed blade knife such as a Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife and a Mk9 Thunderflash could be useful especially if you can get within 20 feet. All bets would be off. A Fritz helmet would be ideal but would be a little inconspicuous when being worn to lectures.

Agreed. Given the very large number of people on campuses and the very tiny amount of shootings -- its a very rare event.

In this type of discussion, I think it's helpful to imagine real events, like Virginia Tech, Columbine or the Colorado mega-church. Any answer to the original question will sound awkward because the shooter has a huge advantage. Not only does the guy have a gun, but he also has the advantage of surprise.

That being said, to answer the original question, I would throw myself quickly and violently. The shooter would not expect it. I would try to grab something as a shield and assume a low stance, like a defensive end rushing a quarterback. Rushing in combination with using pepper spray may be quite effective. I can recall a case where two students rushed and subdued the shooter. Of course, the media doesn't celebrate the case because nobody got shot. If I can find the case, I'll post it.

My answer is no more absurd than running away if you think about it. It's far too easy to imagine a clear, undisturbed path to the door. In contrast, I imagine a traffic jam where 100 people are just as terrified as you and trying to fit through a 4 foot opening at the same time. Generally, if you take away the ability to use a firearm against somebody who has a gun AND surprise, then there's no reassuring answer. Ideally, the innocent should be allowed to defend themselves with a firearm, as in the Colorado mega-church case.

Most likely, even less-lethal weapons, especially the projectile types, will be banned on campus. Situational awareness is always good. Make sure you carry a cellphone and subscribe to any campus alert type services offered. Know the on-campus emergency phone numbers, 911 will get you to them, but only indirectly and a bit slower. Know your campus's emergency plans, procedures, alarm signals, call box locations, etc.

Campus crime tends to be grossly under-reported, but are generally pretty safe, depending on the general neighborhood, degree of access, etc. I always encouraged my night students to try to park in the same area and leave as a group, and offered to escort any student to their car after class. Know your classmates. Know who is a familiar on-campus face and who may not belong there. Be sensitive to fellow students under too much stress, isolation, etc.

If your classroom doors open in towards the classroom, a simple wedge to block the door from opening, kept in your backpack, might be real handy. Different doors require different solutions. A bicycle lock might hold double doors closed, for example.

Schools have a lot of rules(posted victim disarmament zones). It's tough to say what is possible to use as ever schol is different.
Don't overlook the flashlight hi lumens even a strobe mode. They can be used to disorient your attacker.
as others have said situational awarness is a big thing.

I think your right. The idea of a gunman running down any of the streets in any of the 3 local universities in this part of the world is pretty far fetched.

I remember siting in the pub opposite Auchterlonies Golf Shop in St Andrews seeing Prince William (a high profile student at the University at the time) riding by on his mountain bike. Later I casually asked at a bookshop nearby if he had any security looking out for him. 'Oh yes, you can recognize them from their brown corduroy suits they wear, they stand out from the rest of the University student crowd' was the reply.

I would feel better if I were protected by gentlemen from 22nd Regiment at Bradbury Lines too.. did the tan cordury match the tan beret?

If you think about it - and many have - a college is the perfect place to wreak mayhem. Most colleges are liberal, hence the vast majority of the population will not be armed as they are under the impression the police are everywhere and can protect them. As few of these people have ever considered what bad things could happen; instead of running and finding cover, they cower in place, even in the middle of an empty lawn. Finally, most colleges have strict gun control regulations in place. Carry a pistol and you are outta there, do not pass "Go", go directly to jail.

I think I would chose to break a few rules and have something that would even the playing field, like OC spray, a Taser - something.

Just a minor nit here -- while agreed, most colleges have strict gun control rules in place, in *most* cases (consult your local laws) it is NOT illegal. Again, laws vary, consult your local laws.

-john

True for "most" campuses. But you can always enroll at one of the finer schools in Colorado - C.S.U. in Ft. Collins. Which doesn't ban firearms. However, to legally own a handgun you need to be 21, so that limits handgun carry to upperclassmen since most folks start college at a younger age. The C.U. campus in Boulder has banned firearms for a long time, but the courts just said that they cannot do that anymore.

Realistically, trying to defend yourself against an assailant who is armed with a firearm, you're just not going to have much luck with anything EXCEPT another firearm or an automobile (to run them over). I sure wouldn't go up and pepperspray someone waving a gun around. That's just stupid.

If you cannot or choose not to arm yourself to deal with an armed threat, then the best course of action is situational awareness and a pre thought out plan of how to get the hell out of Dodge. Actually, those other things are equally as important even when you ARE armed yourself.

Any zone that is "gun free" merely because somebody said so is a perfect place to wreak mayhem. History proves that school campuses are a prime example. It's like the shooter already knows that he won't be met with any kind of resistance that's going to stop him.

Again, I like to use real examples. So, consider for example the "gun free zone" of Virgnia Tech. At the height of arrogance, the shooter (who I choose not to name) chain locked the doors of the building. He knew at that point it would be like fishing in a bucket. Do you really think the shooter would do something like that (chain lock the doors) if he knew at least one person in every class was packing?

Just to clarify - I am not anti-gun. I spent 20 yrs in the Army and own my own personal protection package.

I am against stupid laws passed as knee-jerk reactions to situations that happened and were handled poorly.

Good running shoes.

One class at Virginia Tech that had no losses was due to a girl getting up as soon as she realized something was wrong, carefully peeking through a crack in the door, then closing it and getting help to barricade it.

Like burglars, terrorists like school shooters will probably follow the path of least resistance -- if one door won't open, they'll try another. They are also probably quite confident that everyone will panic or run, not attack.

IOW, have some kind of a plan for as many possible situations that you can think of: attack, run, hide. Then you might possibly have something to fall back on if it happens, rather than just having your brain spinning in neutral.

But I guess in a geology class you could always throw rocks!

Do you know if your school has any kind of plan? What about some of your classmates?

Sue

my classroom was pretty typical for a public high school... outward opening steel entrance doors with probably 8x24 section of reinforced glass for vision...several inner doors leading to common office and other classrooms... during "lockdown" had a section of opaque paper to cover window...for active shooter my plan was to use wedges for the inward opening doors and had precut 8' pieces of 2x2 for outward doors...two loops of 550cord per 2x2 section, half hitch from each loop around door knob... adjust length of loop so wood is in contact with door frame diagonally crossways... pretty resistant if agressor has only outer door knob for purchase

I suggest that if you consider the scenario in real life, and people do, its called responding to an active shooter - in a primary school, a campus, a church, a workplace, a shopping mall, even a military base (Ft Hood). Lots of folks are responding to active shooters, far more than they are to isolated campus shootings, which are relatively rare. There are lots of similarities across these attacks. Lots of folks are giving thought to how to respond to active shooters, on a personal (victim) level, as police / SWAT, and as EMS. I like this article written from the EMS perspective: http://www.jems.com/article/major-incidents/arlington-county-va-task-force. Especially this quote:

"In a paradigm shift following Columbine, police departments moved to an aggressive response in which police immediately pursue, establish contact with and neutralize the shooter; the idea is that the sooner the shooter can be contained, captured or neutralized, the fewer the casualties."

The idea of victim response to an active shooter isn't often dealt with as directly: most often the advice of first responders is to take cover, establish distance and barriers between yourself and an active shooter, treat wounded and wait for assistance. In short, protect yourself and the lives of others. I think though that the idea of rapid containment, capture and neutralization would allow for people in the direct path of an active shooter to take action on their own, with some general caveats:
- don't head out of your room or area in search of the shooter: armed or unarmed, you are more of a danger to yourself, other targets of the shooter, and to first responders. If not in the same area as the shooter, distance (evacuation) and barriers are your best protection.
- if you find yourself in the same room as the shooter, you have a split second choice to make: rush the shooter, hopefully with others, or take cover, and evacuate as possible. It seems to me that distance from the shooter and from available exits or cover is critical here. If you have to approach from across a room or down a shopping mall corridor, your odds of subduing a shooter before he can fire on you are diminished. Also, I submit that the situation will probably overwhelm even the most prepared person: we just aren't keyed to respond to a sudden and immediate threat to our lives in the form of an active shooter. Only training and experience can somewhat overcome that, and AFAIK no one provides potential victim response training (defn: contain, capture and neutralize, before the arrival of first responders).

Some folks however may be more predisposed to thinking on their feet and mounting an immediate attack - vets who have seen action, aren't panicked or overwhelmed by the sound of gunfire, and might have the training to subdue a shooter. In general I recommend sitting next to them in class...

Do you have a pic? I know my knots quite well, and I still don't get it. Are you basically securing the 2x2 across the door somehow?

It has to be noted that most colleges and major institutions use commercial hydraulic door closers that are easy to jimmy to make them hard to open. Next time you go to a restaurant look at the closer and notice how the two rods that are hinged together work. If you can keep those two rods together the door won't open.

A boot lace will do it. Tightly lash the two rods together near the closer and you limit access without having to lay in front of the door and risk getting hurt. Make up for any weakness in the cordage you use by using more wraps. Also, the tighter you get the lashing the more tightly the door will remain closed.

Odds are that a determined attacker will be able to kick and shove the door open a bit and, given time, they may be able to slip through the narrow opening. This tactic mostly limits their mobility and buys you time that can be used to make a strategic retreat, or organize resistance. Time and distance are your friends.

It also has to be noted that a person, even a strong person armed with a gun, is vulnerable if they are forced to slide through a narrow gap. If the door is kicked or rammed when they are half-way through the narrow gap you have a fair chance of causing serious injury.

It also has to be noted that lashing the closer can be combined with wedging the door and barricading the entry with anything handy.

irekon..no, I'm retired now... probably a half hitch was not the correct term...fold a loop back on itself, and put both resulting loops around the knob as a slip knot... I had a hallway entrance to my lab room from one hallway, and a counter top at the edge of the other door with which to lean the 2x2s as jiggling the door would allow a short horizontal block to slip off the door frame... the doors were locked from the inside but accessable by anyone with a master key...probably a better solution would be to use a piece of chain and bolt through the links..what I used was in response to a "what if...." one afternoon, and I used some para cord and meter sticks... the sticks slipped so I purchased the longer 2x2s

a slotted 500g mass can be driven onto a meter stick to make a pretty good trunchon

I helped review my school's emergency management document after the Columbine attack... as the shooter on the faculty my Principal asked me to be on it... I played the role of devil's advocate, especially with improvised explosives and firearms...

It's been so long since I've been in school that I don't even know if there are locks on the doors!

If there are, and even if the shooter has keys, if you can quickly open the door, stick a sharpened pencil in the lock (or just a piece of lead from a mechanical pencil) and break it off so there is nothing to grab, the key won't go in.

Even when I was a kid in school, I remember thinking that a classroom with only one door had definite drawbacks.

Sue

I really don't want to sound like a troll here but:

Given the statistical chances of this - compared to say lightning strikes, scorpion stings and alcohol poisoning - is it really worth spending much time on? How many people die annually from this?

I don't remember the exact times but three incidences in the last twenty years within a couple hundred miles that I can name off the top of my head. Virginia Tech, Appalachian School of Law, one of the local high schools. IIRC there have been several others in Tennessee west of here.

For those of us that are professional students or educators, it's higher on our scale.

Risk matrix: low probability, sure, but very high consequence.

Yes, it is worth it! It's a good mental exercise for situational awareness generally. People who cannot articulate a response for this issue probably cannot articulate a response for a random attack on the street either. They're part of the group that thinks violence simply won't happen to them, ever.

Also, the cost/benefit ratio is extremely low. What's the cost of discussing possible reactions to shooters? The cost is nearly $0. It just takes your time, and the discussion is fun. The benefit is that you may be able to save your life and/or other lives one day. That's a huge benefit.

Yes, an active shooter situation may be unlikely, but most (or all) of the topics discussed on this site are unlikely. For example, it's highly unlikely that I'll have to start a fire on an off-piste snowboard trip. However, the cost of me putting together a small survival kit that can save my life is about $10. Again, the cost/benefit ratio is extremely low.

Finally, note that this site is NOT called "Equipped to Camp". This site is called "Equipped to Survive", and this is the survival forum.

I live in the Bronx and am often in some of the worst neighborhoods in the country so I am not in the "violence won't happen" camp. I just become curious when I hear about people from suburban America spending lots of money/time preparing for muggings/break-ins while generally ignoring their obesity/smoking/etc when they rarely even know someone who has every been assaulted.

As far the best "equipment" to survive an assault from an armed assailant who is intent to kill you with semi-automatic weapon for no reason while in a firearms restricted zone in rural/suburban America? I suggest body armor, a fitness regiment and the previously mentioned situational awareness.

Well, you did answer the original question after implying the topic is pointless. So, you are now officially a member of this pointless discussion.



The thread topic is about reacting to a shooter at a school, not about fixing the other dangers you mentioned. If you do a search, you'll find other threads for that. Anyway, just about every adult I know can relay a story about a home invasion in or near their neighborhood, and I live in suburbia and know a lot of people across the country. So, I strongly disagree with your statement about suburbanites rarely knowing someone who has ever been assaulted.

I think had you really been trolling you would have been a lot more emotional and demeaning. These discussions about all the What If's allows us to spit ball, refine, relate to comprehending a small percentage possibility.

Chances of being mugged or in a shoot out are very rare, yet we must go past the title of a subject in order to see gather information on the how, why, etc.

I live in a desert, so the chance of a blizzard or earthquake are rare but I still read those threads and become a part of the discussion in order to prepare myself for somehow being in them.

I wasn't trying to start an argument. I just wanted to make the point that the amount of preparedness should correlate to the likeliness and impact of the risk. Buying a survival knife makes sense after you've purchased a smoke detector. :-)

I think gulliamo makes a good point.

In terms of what will give you the most protection for time and money spent having the brakes checked on your car and taking a weekend defensive driving course makes a lot more sense than worrying about a campus shooting.

Going for a brisk walk, visiting the gym, generally getting some exercise, and swearing off sweets and white bread are more likely to save your life than anything you might do or plan for dealing with a campus shooting.

That said, this issue has regularly made it into the news and has piqued the interest of a good part of the American public. It also has to be pointed out that many of the same issues and strategies for getting through the unlikely event of a campus shooter also apply to attacks at workplaces, and public spaces like malls.

I agree. The odds of a campus shooting happening on any semblance of a regular basis is extremely low. Also you have to factor in the large number of Universities and Colleges that exist. A typical campus covers acres of ground with lecture halls, labs etc spread out over a wide distance. That said, the odds of you being in campus building that is a target is extremely low and you probably have better odds of getting run over in the parking lot on the way to class.

I don't necessarily prioritize my preparations based on "the odds". If I did so, there would be no reason for me to carry a compass while hiking. The chances of getting lost in the Colorado drainages where I hike are miniscule (to get out - "walk downhill, and don't cross any high elevation ridges" - you don't need a compass for that). But I carry one anyways.

Preparing for a "campus shooting" is not specific to campus. It is also applicable for "department store shooting", "grocery store shooting", "movie theater fire", etc.

For anyone to say, "the odds are against this happening to me", while an accurate statement, is an incredibly dumb one. So my goal during one of these incidents will be to surround myself with as many "it won't happen to me's" as possible to serve as a human shield and diversion.

Maybe, preparing for the specific is preparing for the general. That is, maybe preparing for a low probability event includes elements of preparation applicable to higher probability events. If so, discussing preparation to deal with any threat event provides worthwhile information on dealing with any other threat event.

In addition, consulting the ETS community is an opportunity to learn of specific tactics that may be options about which you were not aware, unless of course you already know everything. For those in that category, we can only ask that you be so kind as to share.

http://www.botachtactical.com/us10leiii.html

Hmmm, 4 pounds plus, $295 plus, and restricted export. Wonder if there is something US-available that gives the same level of protection and is a bit more user and pocketbook friendly?

OK, could try here for $305: http://www.omahatactical.com/id91.html

Well, I suppose you don't want this stuff getting into general circulation too easily.

BTW your easy familiarity with things like this remains a bit scary!

Each to their own reasons for preparations. I base my mine on odds.

The odds are low that I may have a heart attack, but do I have an ambulance follow me around just in case of that minuscle chance I am not in cell range and cannot summon help?

The odds are low that I may be shot in a grocery store, does that mean I should worry and fret and wear body armour just in case for that next time I saunter down to the local grocery store?

I live in a volcanic zone historically known for eruptions. Should I be prepared for a 1 in 200,000 year chance of being near when and if the volcano erupts again? Maybe I should be more prepared and sell or move my house 300 miles just to be safe. Afterall, it would be "incredibly dumb" for me to not think "it won't happen to me" and I will be then used as a "human shield" to protect those who are more prepared.

On the otherhand, I carry a PLB while out hiking. Why? Because the odds of me falling, getting injured and requiring rescue are much more likely then having a heart attack or getting shot at the grocery store or getting buried under hot lava. By the way you do carry a PLB while out hiking, right?

It really comes down to perspective and that every person's idea of risk/odds are completely different in a 1001 different scenarios and it is "incredibly dumb" not to respect that.

Keep in mind that Export Control just means you can't sell them outside the United States without the proper paperwork. It has no bearing on sales within the Unites States. For example, many Surefire flashlights carry an Export Control, yet they are still sold within the U.S. to civilians without issue.

As long as you live within the United States and body armor is legal for you to own in your state/county/town, then there is no reason you can't buy it.

With that said, if you want a cheaper and lighter weight alternative to hard plates, you can buy soft ballistic inserts. They're essentially the same as the plates, but only rated to level IIIa (so basically it covers everything other than high powered rifles). These range anywhere from $50 to $250 depending on size.

Here's some: http://www.bulletproofme.com/Briefcase_and_Backpack_Shields.shtml

Some here people are getting upset about discussing solutions to the original question. Don't worry because I have a solution for you. Start a new thread entitled, "Preparing for a Mass Shooter Situation is a Waste of Time Probably."

Surely there is a threat response program that has worked on scenarios much like the campus shooter. Maybe some with the appropriate militry, law enforcement, or security background will share that with us here. If not, we can perform our own thought experiments as well as internet research, and share those results here. So, though I am without any expertise in response to armed intruders, let me try a little.

Preparation is a major theme here. What could we prepare?

Our attitude, I think we know in emergencies we should not just give up and become victims. Even if shot, you can intend to survive.

Our habit of situational awareness: where are the traditional and non-traditional exit possibilities from the immediate room, building, campus, perhaps there is a waterway offering concealment and egress, etcetera?

Our habit of learning where there are resources: where is the campus security building, the campus nurse or hospital, the thickest plant life in which to hide, water sources, ?

What do we have in our EDC and otherwise that could help: cellphone to report and receive situation reports, request aid; a PFAK to help ourselves or others survive woounds; a mirror surface to signal authorities and to look carefully around corners and obstacles before further exposing ourselves; something to consume for energy; etcetera.

Okay, maybe all pretty basic and maybe even naive. But that is my start, please add to the sophistication if you can. I am going to do some internet searching.

This is a response to Ireckon's original post above before it was obviously heavily edited.

Thread drift on a forum is like any conversation in real life. Coversation starts on one topic and slowly drifts back and forth to the original topic and several related or non related topics...thats life.

Instead of telling people to start new threads or their own forums, this forum has a "notify" link that will allow you to report any post that you think does not belong. I would rather see the admins here decide what is appropriate and what is not..

Also I did not see any insinuation of "fat suburbanites" in any post.


Anyways back to the original topic...

Here you go:



Gun-related threads always go off topic. I thought it would be different this time. I was wrong.



Then maybe you should take your own advice.

Here's some stuff:

3.“Those willing to take the shooter down should rush the shooter and keep coming until he is down. Push people down or out of the way, even run over children while shouting commands, “Get down, do not run, get on the floor!”

4. Those who choose to fight should focus on the weapon not the person. Control the weapon. After the active shooter has been subdued, march everyone out to a safe place in the manner described above. Someone needs to call for medical assistance at this point. [Edit: I would call at first detection of a shooter!]

5. When LEOs arrive all weapons should already be put away if possible. Make sure not to pick up the shooter’s weapon but keep your foot on it or secure it if there is a chance someone may pick it up. Do what the police tell you to do. Identify the wrongdoer to the police and make sure the police know that he had to be stopped in order to prevent innocent people from becoming victims. Point out evidence such as spent casings, weapons, etc. but do not provide details without a lawyer present.

http://firearmslawyer.net/blog/index.php/all/2009/01/09/p185


University STAY response advisory:

Secure your area, lock or barricade doors and windows, close blinds, prevent anyone/ anything from accessing occupants.

Take cover, hide, stay out of sight.

Advise others so that they can take steps to protect themselves; await further information.

You must take measures to protect your safety. Police will be busy with the actual response to the incident and will not be able to direct your personal actions unless you are actively involved.

https://www6.miami.edu/public-safety/Eme...ASE-2-15-10.pdf

It's been awhile since I last visited a university or school. Do classrooms nowadays have locks that can be locked from the inside?

Appalachian School of Law, unarmed students subdued a shooter by using brute force. Apparently, the students may have been unaware of the presence of armed policemen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

Regarding the frequency of school shootings, I have noticed that since Virginia Tech the frequency of school shootings has gone up noticeably. There may or may not be a correlation. There have been 35 American schools that had shootings between 2007 and today 10/25/10 (less than 4 years). In comparison, from 1966 to the end of 1983 (18 years), there were 9 American schools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Those stats do not include other shootings outside of American schools. Also, I'm about certain those stats don't include gang-related shootings at schools.

All:
My intent was not to start an argument - I like this forum and respect too many people here for that. I was only trying to establish a sense of perspective. I wouldn't suggest someone be disallowed to post their opinion (provided they are within the bounds of the forum rules) and I'm surprised to hear people suggest I suppress mine.

That said, I am always willing to be swayed by new evidence and it seems the problem may be bigger than I anticipated (Thanks irecon for the link!) but it's been a while since I was on campus.

For some, campus shooting is a greater concern because they might be spending their lives working in a school system. In other words, the risk is not just four years of college, but forty years. College students, even at respectable institutions, are also becoming increasingly confrontational and unbalanced. Some don't hesitate sending emails that begin with "f*** y**" and end with something similar, often a vague, cowardly threat. Fortunately, strange emails where students with a loose screw declare themselves to be your god are a bit more common ("I am Infinity! Bow down and worship me!"). In a bizarre turn, some gang members are also pursuing higher education. Someone who teaches crime prevention and self-defense workshops at a small, low-ranking college was shocked to find some members of national criminal syndicates in his classes, presumably to learn what the victims learn. (That's near you, Mr. Gulliamo.) So the threat today is greater than what you judge by -- your own experience as relatively well-behaved students.

Usually only really sensational news like the Virginia Tech mass shooting grabs national attention, but those in higher education notice the smaller violent incidents (sometimes directed just at an individual or a department). It seems there has been at least one or two incidents every year for the last four or five years. It just takes a disturbed or depraved individual with poor judgment. Now, which of the students who send you those strange emails will turn out to be him? Will he target just you or random strangers? Though not really the same, tese concerns lie on the same spectrum for school workers -- I do realize we're mainly talking about the Virginia Tech scenario in this thread.

In this sort of climate, it is quite frustrating that there is no good way to arm oneself effectively against the crazies. I am just not interested in being helpless and trusting to chance. But even if local law allows carrying firearms, in my opinion it is inadvisable to risk expulsion or termination of employment. To get readmitted or to get your job back, you'd need to get into a legal battle, and universities, being basically large corporations, can keep throwing money at the case until they bankrupt you. Some people like their school or their job, and the risk of getting killed by a campus shooter is actually fairly low, as some posts on this thread have pointed out. So the risk of getting fired/expelled seems to outweigh the risk of getting killed.

After all this discussion, it really seems that situational awareness is the best defense. Subscribing to campus text message alerts and noticing potential "escape routes" are good ideas. These can be done without too much cost. (As for room design, building egress, door locks, etc. -- they vary from campus to campus, and even from building to building. Generally, though, doors can't be locked except by a key. Some rooms have two or more exits, others have one. Some windows are big enough to let a man through, others aren't. Some rooms are on the ground floor, others are on the 20th floor that you would not want to jump out of. It's all case by case.) Equipment that cannot be easily concealed can lead to misunderstandings with the colleagues or administrators. So body armor is probably out. Depending on the state & the campus, a small projectile taser might work, but there is again the problem of range. I invite those with better ideas to contribute.

Thanks you very much for all your input. One final thought -- I wasn't expecting to cause such controversy about what sort of preparation is worth discussing. Can't we all face the fact that the main reason we're on this forum is mostly because (1) we like gadgets and (2) we are prone to be overly vigilant?

Stay cool.


Da Bing

Teslinhiker...I taught in a public high school, west coast of Florida... the building I worked at was built in 1972 and remodeled several times...the exterior building doors were metal framed but primarily glass reinforced with wire for OHSA vision requirements... interior hallway doors were a mix of steel but mostly solid wood with metal frames that were lockable from the inside but keyed for a master key...they had 8x24 glass panels for safety while opening...interior doors were solid wood,lockable, typically without any vision window..

one of the modifications to the emergency management plan we made after Columbine was to have a remote but secure key safe for responding law enforcement..sets of master keys... laminated floor plans...phone directory by classroom numbers... and video (DVD) made from the 7 primary access points so back up officers had an idea of the building layout ...copies were at the police/fire/and sheriff's office

our school nurses had several prepositioned trauma kits in various parts of the building

BTW.... my worst case scenario was not an active shooter, but a disinfranchised student that might set off a thermobaric device in the hallway below my classroom