I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks

Posted by: Art_in_FL

I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/08/10 04:30 AM

Rattling around the web, researching rescue tools, I came across

New York City Fire Department
FORCIBLE ENTRY REFERENCE GUIDE. December, 2006. TECHNIQUES AND PROCEDURES:

http://www.vententersearch.com/supplemental/fdny_fe.pdf

Why did I post this?:
Some day I may need or want to rescue someone. Or get out myself. And if you're going to rescue a damsel in distress it is best if you show that you know what your doing. No damsel worth rescuing wants a bumbling idiot. She can grow into that opinion after you're married.

It's pretty neat and I'm a curious ape descendant. Some of you are also curious sorts. I always wondered how they did it. Now I have some idea of how they do it.

Knowing how they do it, and knowing which locks they find hardest to get through, helps me select locks and design doors, windows to resist intruders. Just make sure you can get out and the FD can still get in. Good thing most burglars are wimps and most firemen aren't.

Finding out what tools they prefer to use from people who do this sort of thing daily gives me valuable insights and guides my selection of tools. Conclusion -- two strong people with irons, Halligan and flat-head axe, can get through almost anything. Just a matter of time and effort.

Pretty scary if you tend to worry about keeping people out. Let me assure you that knowing these techniques is not IMHO any great help to thieves because:
Using them is hard work, thieves are not known for their willingness to do a lot of hard labor, or they would have a job. Odds are if your house is well secured most burglars will move on to a less fortified home. Most homes that are broken into were left unsecured or had very easy to defeat locks.

Most of the tools used are large, heavy and expensive. Carrying around a 42" Kelly is going to attract attention. Most burglars can't swing that sort of cash and are reluctant to draw that sort of attention to themselves.

Many of the techniques require two people. Often one to hold the bar and another to swing a sledge or axe. Your average junkie looking for a quick score is not a team player.

Fire departments use specialized techniques to limit damage. A determined intruder could simply chainsaw through the wall on any wood frame house, or beat a hole with a sledge hammer through the wall of a masonry home. Wood or masonry backing a truck, preferably a stolen one because it is hard on the chrome, into most any house will pretty much guarantee entry. Locks keep the relatively honest people out.

Besides all that, I know that only the finest people come to this site, and all of you will only use your new found power for good. No doubt.




Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/08/10 05:36 AM

In most circumstances I think a common thief couldn't afford the time involved. I don't recall the source but IIRC the average home burglery takes under 90 seconds or so. If there's an alarm they literally are in and out well before law enforcement can arrive unless they were right out front. If by chance the occupant was home you'd be taking a terrible risk breaking in with a sledgehammer or something...if that homeowner is armed you sure aren't gonna have the element of surprise! You'd probably be greeted by several loads of 00 buck.
Posted by: JBMat

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/08/10 12:52 PM

A trick that probably saved me from losing a lot of stuff recently - 2 1/2 or 3 inch screws. Replace both screws in the strike plates with these. The short screws that come with the lock are next to useless. The longer screws go thru the door frame casing and into the framing, making that part of the lock very strong. Replace at least one, if not two, of the hinge screws on each hinge also. On the door itself, replace the short screws with longer screws, about 1 1/2 to 2 inches, depending on door type.

CAUTION: Don't overtighten, you can take the frame out of plumb. Use a level when doing this to make sure the door frame stays plumb.

On my front door, if they had kicked a few more times, maybe the door itself would have failed. The door was cracked, but held. As it was, they moved to the back door and kicked until the door itself, not the locks, failed.

The alarm did scare them off. No one entered the house, nothing taken. Except a $1200 insurance claim to replace the doors and locks.

Newer doors going in today - never knew it took so long. Alarm system upgrade is this week also.
Posted by: ireckon

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/08/10 04:43 PM

This woman's doors are solid and may have saved her life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUxpnXGJ7M

You can see the criminal's kicking the door by using full body force, but the door did not give out. Also, notice her layered security, including strong doors, security cameras, guns, etc.
Posted by: roberttheiii

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/08/10 06:47 PM

The price tag on the gun is a sure sign of her spending lots of time at the range training on its safe use as well.
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/09/10 01:12 AM

Lessons include:
Outward opening doors are harder to break through than inward opening doors.

Wood stops, door frames and rough framing often fail by splitting.

Wood faced, hollow core doors are weak.

Locks with strong mechanisms and long bolts, or rim locks that cannot be pulled away from the strike plate or frame.

Corrections:
Switch/modify doors so they will open out.

Fasten hinges and locks into thicker wood, plywood (which is very resistant to splitting, or aluminum plates which can be machined like hardwood). If the space between door frame and rough opening allows for adding 1/4" aluminum plates (3-1/2" and as tall as the rough opening)the retro-fit is pretty easy. If not you need to plane down the rough opening to allow room for the plates. Plates should be screwed to rough framing with 3" deck screws in a zig-zag pattern at about 4" OC.

Once installed the aluminum plates are drilled to accept the screws from the hinges, stops, deadbolt/s, and door frame. All of which are installed with 3" screws.

Stops on both sides of the door frame can be greatly reinforced if the wood ones are replaced with a rectangular aluminum extrusion that is fastened at tight intervals with long screws that pass through the stop, door frame, aluminum reinforcement plate and on into the rough framing.

Replace thin or hollow core doors with solid wood or steel doors. Hollow core doors can be faced with sheet steel. The location where locks/s are can be reinforced with hardwood, plywood, sheet steel or aluminum plates. Ideally they are through-bolted with carriage bolts that pull against thick and wide reinforcement plates so they will not pull through.

If you want to do a grade-A job the rough opening can be greatly reinforced by installing 1/2" or better plywood both inside and out, replacing the drywall or plaster, for 4' or more around the door opening. The plywood should be nailed in a standard 4-6-12 pattern (be sure to stagger the 4" OC runs) but glued with a API-01 rated construction adhesive and screwed 12" OC is better still.

It is a lot of work but you end up with a door that is going to take lot of time to get through. Also one that is highly resistant to wind. Just make sure you can still get out.

Posted by: speedemon

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/09/10 02:45 AM

No offense intended, but I've been installing security systems for several years now, and that information isn't terribly accurate. Granted not all thieves (the majority) are willing to spend the time and effort to break into a house (those who are looking for quick easy money), but there are certainly a great many who can and will break down most doors, regardless of the locks (those who do this on a regular basis).

The biggest mistake you can make is think a thief is lazy, and will move on after a couple of minutes. Maybe your right and you'll be lucky. But I'll bet you would be amazed at how clever someone can be to avoid having to do an honest days work.
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/09/10 05:49 AM

I think that if a thief takes that extra couple minutes on the home of an ETS'er, and the occupant is home, it's probably gonna cost that thief dearly! Again, I'm just going by some crime stats I read, not sure if they're accurate. I'll defer to your experience in that area. One thing I will say is that every minute you cost the guy makes it that much more likely that s/he'll be discovered or interrupted during the B&E attempt. And really, that's all that locks or security systems can do. My dad did construction for 45 years, owned his own small company. I worked for him as a kid, and I can tell you there ain't much you can't get thru with the right tools. What will stand up to a sawz-all, chain saw or splitting maul? In an extreme case someone can run a vehicle thru your wall. All you can do is harden the target as much as you can.

The 5.56 rifle is a sensible choice, if you're at home to use. And if you're prepared to face all the ramifications taking that step...not a trifling matter, to be sure.
Posted by: sybert777

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/09/10 06:10 AM

my room has one door, my bed is directly diagonal from my door. I have it there becaise it is farthest from he door and right next to the dresser (cover). I have a .380 in its holster stapled to my bed smile and i can unbuckle, de-safety it, cock it, and take cover in under 5 seconds. I need a better gun but for now, that works!
Posted by: scafool

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/09/10 10:41 PM

Nice pdf on doors Art. (saved)

Now, just how strong is the glass in the windows around your doors?
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 12:57 PM

Sybert777, if I remember correctly you are 16 years old. I hope your parents have assessed your maturity level and insisted you take the appropriate gun safety and home protection courses before allowing you to maintain a loaded handgun next to your bed.

Pete
Posted by: MartinFocazio

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
Rattling around the web, researching rescue tools, I came across

New York City Fire Department
FORCIBLE ENTRY REFERENCE GUIDE. December, 2006. TECHNIQUES AND PROCEDURES:

http://www.vententersearch.com/supplemental/fdny_fe.pdf


Oh, that's the stuff they TEACH. I've seen what they DO here in NYC - suffice it to say that they don't particularly care for how much your paint is scratched. Most of these techniques are intended to minimize damage/repair costs - the through-lock techniques are a good example.
Forget the DOOR - you take out a WALL if you need to get in, and there's very little a saw and a hydraulic cutter/ram can't defeat.
This little gem is a - literal - lifesaver: http://www.botachtactical.com/hurato.html
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 04:31 PM

Quote:
This little gem is a - literal - lifesaver: http://www.botachtactical.com/hurato.html


Yea with that little tool you can clear a entire apartment floor in no time.

Pete
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 05:09 PM

This is hilarious. So people are willing to spend hundreds to secure an oustide entry door, but still have regular old glass windows, or better still, live in a stick-built home, like most houses in this country. I can almost walk through an outside wall into a stick built home. Most stick built homes could have no windows or doors at all, and I could still get into them in less than a minute!

Residential security is a facade. You want security, add a security system, and not just any system, but a hard wired, fully monitored, independent power supplied, loud wailing internal siren that will wake the whole neighborhood but can't be gotten to easily type setup. Better still, add a couple of 8 round pump shotguns with speed loaders full of #4 buckshot with a combat veteran behind it and now you've got security!

Burt Gummer's compound was just about right. His only problem was not reinforcing on all sides, including top and bottom. I need a rec room like his.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 06:10 PM

Another one you'll see FDNY use ALL the time - they have what is basiclly a chainsaw that has a 12" or so abrasive cutoff blade (they also have chainsaws and the circular saw with regular saw blades)

The want in, they have no qualms about cutting their way in. Lets face it - they probably respond to a bunch of "taxpayer" (small storefront) fires every day, and there are roll down steel gates with locks - out come the saw - zip, there goes the lock. I've actually seen them throw a chain around something that needed to come down, throw it around the bumper of the engine, and yank
Posted by: thseng

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 07:26 PM

I think the quote goes something like this:
"No obstacle is effective for long unless it is kept under observation."
Posted by: sybert777

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/10/10 08:29 PM

Pete, I have a F.O.I.D. card, allowed by my parents. I have taken several safety courses and even a tactical course set up by my uncle John. I can now draw, cock, aim, and hit a 10" target at 50 ft. I am working on 75 or 100 ft. but all in under 3 seconds! I am not the type of person that thinks "Aw, loo at that poor homeless man, he wants a dollar." I am the utmost paranoid! I have owned, used, cleaned, and disassembled many fire arms in my lifetime. I am glad that you are worried but, I have taken all the reccomended courses and have alot of hands on experience. Hopefully I never have to use any weapon on anyone but, if TSHTF I am ready, up in arms!
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 02:56 AM

Quote:
This is hilarious. So people are willing to spend hundreds to secure an oustide entry door, but still have regular old glass windows, or better still, live in a stick-built home, like most houses in this country. I can almost walk through an outside wall into a stick built home. Most stick built homes could have no windows or doors at all, and I could still get into them in less than a minute!


In some cases that might not be an exaggeration. Entire subdivisions in Florida have been built with Therm-ply, essentially heavy-duty cardboard sandwiched by aluminum foil, as the structural sheathing. This is covered in vinyl siding which has to be nailed into the framing as you can't nail to Thermo-ply. On the interior there is the cheapest 1/2" drywall available. In keeping with the overall outstanding quality the vinyl was poorly installed so that considerable amounts of rain ran inside the wall.

Good thing rain and moisture is never an issue in Florida. <dripping sarcasm>

After a couple of years the fiberglass insulation was soaked, the Thermo-ply had soaked up water and turned to wet cardboard with de-laminated aluminum foil, the vapor barrier had sagged and the drywall was soggy. In spots the framing had begun to rot and carpenter ants had moved in. I literally saw a carpenter shove his hand through an exterior wall. Hardest part was getting his hand through the siding. I suspect that in the worse spots you could jump through the wall as long as you were careful to avoid the framing and wiring.

On the other hand even a house sheathed with OSB would be pretty tough to get through without tools. Plywood harder still as it has more impact resistance. I have knocked holes in OSB I could put my hand through with a half-dozen swings of a hammer. With plywood I go for the saw.

If you use a chainsaw, preferably one with a carbide toothed chain like many fir departments use, you can cut a door pretty quick. Faster still if you avoid the framing. Backing a truck through a corner works also.

Funny thing is entries through the wall is possible but it remains exceptionally rare for burglars. Most go through a door or window. A lot simply walk in through an unlocked door. Even firemen tend to like doors more than windows. Walking in, and evacuation, is far easier through a door. Thieves usually realize that they are vulnerable while climbing in or out of a window. They also know that he sound of breaking glass is more likely to cause a bystander to investigate and/or call police than someone shouting 'fire'.

Also windows are a bit different than doors. On one side glass is always vulnerable. On the other windows are usually harder to physically get to, and because they aren't opened as often as doors they are in some ways easier to reinforce. High and narrow windows can be too much trouble to mess with. Bars on the outside and Plexiglas on the inside slow down even the firemen. The Plexiglas on the inside is an issue for burglars because you have to break the glass before you get to it. There are also high-tech films that make glass hard to get through.

The rough opening can be reinforced much the same way the door opening was with plywood surrounding and aluminum plates. Wind rated windows have much tougher than the typical frames. Screwed at frequent intervals with long screws through a metal plate and deep into the surrounding framing the window is resistant to being blown or bashed in.

The stops on windows can be replaced by aluminum extrusions that are screwed all the way into the rough framing.

Of course there are rules as to what and how you can do things. Most codes require that at least one window in each bedroom be large enough to allow a fireman to get through. Firemen need to get in and you need to be able to get out. The idea here is not to live in a bunker. Rather it is to harden those openings most likely to be attacked by burglars and to match the level of security to the risk. A back door or ground-level window that opens onto a blind ally, where any burglar has privacy and time to work on it, needs to be tougher than one that is immediately visible from a busy street.

The idea that a security system or gun is good protection overlook several things: Most response security systems are easy to trigger if nobody is home. It is not unheard of for burglars to trigger an alarm repeatedly so the address gets a reputation for false alarms. By the third or forth time people ignore the noise. Some organized burglars know the response times of the police and work fast to get in and out before police can arrive.

Even the 'armed response' security organizations are not what many think. Most of the armed responders make just a bit over minimum wage. No rational human being will rush to a potential shootout for short money. Better to delay and arrive after the bad guys are gone. Then it is just a matter of filling out paperwork. Getting a call is cause to have another cup of coffee.

Even if you have a gun the odds are you won't be home when they try to break in. Experienced burglars work hard to make sure nobody is home. Often waiting for people to leave. Once you're gone that gun you were using to protect your property is a prime target for the thief.

Of course one of the biggest ways to maintain security is to limit the motivation of any potential burglar. Most are willing to work much harder if they know there are rich pickings inside. Faced with a situation where they don't know, and the chance there is very little to gain by breaking in, their enthusiasm and work ethic tend to be rather weak.
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 03:52 AM

A firearm is more useful against home invasions than a stealth burglary of an empty home. The latter may cost you some possessions, but they're just things. Renter's or homeowner's insurance will replace things, and even if it doesn't, they're still just things. The home invasion scenario is far scarier. The perps may intend to rape or kill the occupant and don't care at all if you live or die. Often the crime may involve drugs. Your life isn't so easily replaced as your flat screen TV. That's the reason to be armed. If you're not home, then obviously the thief is probably going to steal your gun along with all your other stuff!
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 01:18 PM

Which is why I have a "good" gun safe. It is where my firearms and other vital items are kept when not in use.

I neglected to add a good video monitoring/recording system to the security system will end the false alarm situation pretty well. Nothing like getting a picture of a guy tapping a window, and the license plate of his buddy's car sitting down the block where he got out.

Of course, some of my security system is built on the premise that the best defense is a good offense. Getting into my house might be easier than getting out. I watch too many "SAW" movies.
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 02:20 PM

IIRC, a survey of incarcerated burglars indicated that a dog was the number one deterrent to home burglary. The Mk 1 eyeball on your stuff, either human or canine, is the best safeguard. That's also what makes good neighbors and a sense of who belongs and who doesn't in the neighborhood so helpful.
Posted by: MartinFocazio

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: KG2V
A I've actually seen them throw a chain around something that needed to come down, throw it around the bumper of the engine, and yank


That's EXACTLY the sort of thing I'm talking about. I've seen them pull roll-down gates clean off the building, I've seen them use an ax to simply REMOVE the door. Heck, the have concrete cutting chain saws that go right through cinderblock!
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 07:21 PM

True, but dogs can be bait distracted pretty easily MOST OF THE TIME. I say it like that because there was this one time when I thought the dog would take the bait and leave me alone, and he would have none of that. I got bit good as a result.

Dogs are also easy to defeat by sensory deprivation/irritation. Pepper spray sometimes works. So does a good ultrasonic transmitter. One of the quickest ways to disable a dog, and most any other organic deterrent, is a laser sweep across the retinas. Quiet, quick, easy, and repeatable.
Posted by: ireckon

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/11/10 10:52 PM

I believe in layered security, including solid doors, an alarm, dogs and guns. Of all my layers, my guns are the most trusted for keeping me alive. I'm not a burglar, but if I were, then I'd be most afraid of a homeowner with a firearm.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/12/10 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: benjammin
...snip.... One of the quickest ways to disable a dog, and most any other organic deterrent, is a laser sweep across the retinas. Quiet, quick, easy, and repeatable.


Silly me - I always thought it was a "Hush Puppy" (and NOT the shoes) - a nice supressed .22 pistol wink
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/12/10 02:29 PM

Batteries last longer than bullets, and can't be traced back to the shooter.

Besides, legally owning a suppressor requires it be registered, and this state prohibits their use.

You can get a good 150 mW laser on the internet for about what a good suppressor will cost you.
Posted by: Todd W

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/13/10 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: benjammin
This is hilarious. So people are willing to spend hundreds to secure an oustide entry door, but still have regular old glass windows, or better still, live in a stick-built home, like most houses in this country. I can almost walk through an outside wall into a stick built home. Most stick built homes could have no windows or doors at all, and I could still get into them in less than a minute!

Residential security is a facade. You want security, add a security system, and not just any system, but a hard wired, fully monitored, independent power supplied, loud wailing internal siren that will wake the whole neighborhood but can't be gotten to easily type setup. Better still, add a couple of 8 round pump shotguns with speed loaders full of #4 buckshot with a combat veteran behind it and now you've got security!

Burt Gummer's compound was just about right. His only problem was not reinforcing on all sides, including top and bottom. I need a rec room like his.


Well Said!
Saved me a lot of typing wink
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/14/10 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: benjammin
True, but dogs can be bait distracted pretty easily MOST OF THE TIME.


Very true. But I was thinking of their deterrent value, not their defensive/offense capabilities. It's their bark, not their bite, that makes them valuable.

I'm far more dangerous than my dog is, but his hearing is a lot better than mine, and he's a light sleeper. He stays inside at night, and barks whenever anyone approaches the house. A burglar won't have the advantage of surprise over me. My dog's considerable protective instincts are just a back-up.
Posted by: Paul810

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/15/10 01:11 PM

My family business is commercial real estate, in that we buy old buildings, fix them up, and rent them out.

Anyway, Years ago I can remember getting a phone call that one of our buildings was on fire (it wasn't, one of the sprinkler heads had just popped from age). They got in fine through the front door (solid wood), but were having trouble with the back door (steel door, steel frame, Medeco locks). The failed to get through it with hand tools and ended up using the cut-off saw to cut the locks out of the door.

Another time the fire department was having trouble getting through some similar steel doors on another building when I arrived. I didn't have the keys, but I did have my backhoe parked across the street. One big push from the bucket and the doors were down. grin

Based on those experiences, I've realized a good steel door, with good locks, set in a steel frame can offer at least a little security against brute force attacks. I mean, if the fire department is wailing on the door with a sledge hammer and they can't get it to open, than I can't see anyone kicking that door down to come inside. On the other hand, I've also seen that wood doors are essentially useless. Even solid wood doors don't really offer much more than a few seconds of security.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/17/10 04:33 PM

"It's their bark, not their bite, that makes them valuable."

In this respect, they are not much different than false alarms on electro-mechanical systems. If a thief knew a dog was in the house, he could get the dog to alert repeatedly until it too is regarded as a nuisance and ignored; or worse, conditioned not to respond. Imagine having your dog wake you every night for a week between midnight and 4:00 am barking and growling. Your search for the distubance yields nothing, and after a week or so of this you are losing sleep. You might not ever realize that he's being alerted like that on purpose, if you never see a perpetrator rustling bushes or tapping on a fence in the yard, or some such.

Dogs on patrol in the yard are a direct threat that has to be dealt with more deliberately. Dogs in the house as an alarm are not much different than an alarm, and just require more indirect methods to neutralize.

This is not to say that a dog isn't darned handy during a home invasion, especially if the homeowner is armed and willing to use effective force to repel the invader. But they are not foolproof either.
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 12:02 AM

Jeez, Benjammin- any thief who put in that kind of work (stopping by every morning @ 4:00 a.m. for a week) could take everything I own and still have made less than minimum wage for his troubles! A lot of work for the money!
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 01:26 AM

Well, there is the possibility of being targeted individually by a stalker, jilted lover, disgruntled ex-employee, revenge seeker, obsessed psychopath, etc. This is far more dangerous to you than either a burglar or a home invader seeking cash, drugs and property, and is just the sort of situation where the criminal may invest a week or more setting up his crime.

The name of the game in home security is the "5D's," deter, detect, delay, defend, defeat. Make the bad guy not want to try his luck breaking in, be aware of it if he tries, slow him down and complicate his task when he does, giving you time to call for help and get ready to protect yourself and your family if he succeeds, and being able to do so effectively. But about 90% of winning this game is deterrence, because the best defense is simply causing the bad guy, when contemplating his next break-in, to not pick you and to move on. You really don't want to ever get past that first "D," because that's when Really Bad Things start to happen.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 03:04 PM

I understand. Some thieves are smart enough to case a target before trying them out. That is, qualify them as a worthy enough asset to make it worth their trouble. Dumb crooks are frequent, but for the ones who know their stuff, they can be a real problem for someone with enough material assets at hand.

It pays not to advertise. Career thieves don't target poor people much. Stupid ones do, though, and they get caught. Again, you can't fix stupid.
Posted by: LED

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 04:45 PM

From what I understand, most targeted theft is done by people you know and have access to your stuff. Security, cook, gardner, etc. All the security measures in the world won't protect you against someone you trust. Just a thought.
Posted by: Eugene

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 05:39 PM

Those and then the ones where people go door to door. We had one of those in our neighborhood just this week, someone was going down the street checking for unlocked car doors and the ones that were left unlocked they searched inside for anything they could take.
Previous neighborhood they did similar but popped windows, doors locked or not. They tossed half the stuff they took, we found it in the street.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 07:52 PM

Be interesting to have the cops pull up into the driveway where a disturbance call was made, and find a guy or two face down, hog tied with zip-ties, and a man with a cell phone in his hand waving to the patrolmen (the wife conveniently stowing the shotgun back in the house just before the cops pull up). Oh, one can dream...

Posted by: Eugene

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/18/10 08:04 PM

I'm more of a connect a coil to the door handles type of guy. Co-worker was acting like he was going to let air out of tires at work so later in the day I walked up to his desk and handed him a bolt while twirling my ratchet/socket. Made him worry for a while.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 05/19/10 01:21 PM

That's the spirit!
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 06/03/10 12:14 PM

Take a look at this product:

Residential Security Door

While I doubt it would defeat any Fire Department, it may challenge the average home invader, if you feel like spending the money.

Pete
Posted by: Arney

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 06/03/10 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Take a look at this product:
Residential Security Door

With a door that expensive, if I move, I'm taking the door with me! wink
Posted by: JBMat

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 06/03/10 04:08 PM

There comes a point where if you make it hard for the bad guys to get in, you make it hard for you to get out. Which is a variation of one of Murphy's Laws of Combat btw.

Bars on the windows - prime example. Middle of the night, the smoke alarm sounds, you see flames, smoke is billowing, and you need to find the key to your bedroom bars to get out. Good Luck Chuck.

Stuff is stuff. It can be replaced. If you have something so valuable that it can't be rpelaced, keep it someplace safe, like a bank.

Posted by: ireckon

Re: I'm Going to Need Stronger Locks - 06/05/10 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Take a look at this product:

Residential Security Door

While I doubt it would defeat any Fire Department, it may challenge the average home invader, if you feel like spending the money.

Pete


That's cool. However, for my particular situation, I'd need to spend about $10,000+ to fortify everything else in order for that door to make any kind of sense.