...and a pot.

Posted by: TeacherRO

...and a pot. - 11/13/09 10:32 PM

After the basics, I think adding a small pot to your kit is a good idea. Cooking, carrying water and boiling water to drink. And after fire-starting, its easy to carry , but tough to improvise.
Posted by: Dagny

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/13/09 10:45 PM


Wise counsel. I have a small backpacking cook kit in the car and when hiking I have my dog's titanium drinking cup. Couldn't boil a rabbit it in it but water, sure.

Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/13/09 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
After the basics, I think adding a small pot to your kit is a good idea. Cooking, carrying water and boiling water to drink. And after fire-starting, its easy to carry , but tough to improvise.

For what size kit are we talking about?
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 12:53 AM

I tend to think that a small pot, or large metal cup, is mandatory gear. In my part of the world, the ability to melt snow and boil water extends my survivability by many days.

The car kits, of course, have a pot that is at least 2 quarts, and preferably a gallon. With a lid, and foodstuffs go inside.

For a personal kit, I have a bunch of pint-capacity Sierra cups kicking around. I'd like to build a kit that fits inside. Clip it onto your belt and go.

Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 01:32 AM

this is a subject that has driven me nuts for years.a metal container for the kit that can be used to heat water and cook in.
i have looked around for one that would fit my overboard vests survival kit and the best i could come up with was the Swiss Army canteens cup with a wire bale added.i'll be spending the winter looking for something with a tight fitting lid rather than the foil,duct tape and overlapping zip locks i'm using now



below is the food that go's into that canteen,mostly dry pea soup tabs.



and what it looks like sealed along with the "hurry up" fire making kit that sits on top of it in the zipped up PFD pocket.

Posted by: Lono

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 02:31 AM

I can recommend the stainless steel 16 oz cup that fits on the bottom of a nalgene bottle - less than $10, fold out handles, cooks a cup of soup just fine. Looks like this - http://www.campbound.com/Stainless-Steel-Bottle-Cup.aspx. Whenever I carry a nalgene, I have one of these on the bottom of it.
Posted by: LED

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 02:32 AM

I've been pretty happy with the REI version of the Ti Snowpeak solo cookset. Light as a feather and fits an Esbit stove or my trangia burner with homemade stand. I throw it in the pack for long dayhikes.
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 02:56 AM

I was reading an article very similar to this over at Woods Monkey. The guy does a Swiss Cateen PSK

Looked very cool, except I dont need 6 of them right now...
Posted by: comms

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 04:01 AM

I generally carry the SS cup that fits Nalgene bottles. However. I do a lot of boiling water for meals and carry a 3C aluminum kettle, fits my White Box Stove perfectly.

For my cup I use an insulated travel mug that has a French Press with a lid you can drink from. No extra cups needed and coffee every morning
Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 04:48 AM

ALWAYS.

If you carry a Nalgene or Guyot, get one of the space saver cups or something larger, even if it is just a coffee can.

If you carry a USGI 1qt, get the cup.

If you carry a kit that is too big for your pocket, but too small to be all of a pack, put it in a mess tin or a coffee can. Or use that to protect things like your camera.

If you carry anything beyond what is in your pockets when you go in the woods, in my opinion it is unexcusable to NOT have a metal cup or pot with you. I can make fire without metal, if I really, really have to. I can make rope. But I can't make a good knife blade nor a metal pot- the cup is one of Raven's Top-15.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 05:56 AM

well it looks like Dave Lau's never ending search and mine ended up at about the same place,the Swiss Army canteen cup.i like his idea very much and as i still have the canteen i'll do some cutting and fitting and see how it works out.the ability to have a pot to cook in and a cup for hot drinks is great and with some good tape with a string under it i should be able to make a WP kit with a "zip" type opener for ease of use.i will have to remove the bale from the cup but that can be stored and replaced with ease.
great link-thanks!..it's 1AM here but i'll go down to the gear storage in the basement and dig out that canteen!!
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 12:26 PM

Various titanium cups can fit around the bottom of a nalgene and are definitely lighter than stainless steel, although significantly more expensive. Maybe Santa will be nice to you this Christmas.

I agree, some sort of a metal container is critical gear. Properly stowed, the additional burden is insignificant.
Posted by: bigreddog

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 12:56 PM

Along with shelter, the biggest omission in most psks - foil is OK, but a pot or cup is vital. A hot drink is a massive benefit for morale and wellbeing
Posted by: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 02:47 PM

Personally I would put a bottle full of water in the cup and bag the food & drinks separate.
Thats personal preferance. Several feet of cord might be worth adding. Just in case I have to "chuck" the cup to obtain water.
Posted by: Compugeek

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 02:58 PM

I read a thread recently about contemporary foil, even heavy duty, leaking after folding and being unusable for boiling water.

I thought it was here, but my search-fu is weak.
Posted by: Russ

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 03:40 PM

I went with a Ti kettle, just a bit bigger than a cup. Filled it with a Iso-Pro cannister (for my Pocket Rocket stove) and an assortment of tea, cocoa and soup stuff that goes well with hot water. The SS cup Lono mentions is good though, I have one of those on a nalgene bottle in the same bag. A little more weight, no wasted space.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 03:51 PM

One of the better survival kits was marketed by the Tacoma Mountain Rescue Unit, basically a PSK in a Prince Albert can, which made a usable cup (although I'll bet the rim was hot in actual use). It was just a bit too big to fit in your pocket, but could easily fit in the smallest pack. No longer available, I believe.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 04:27 PM


i still have my very old Tacoma kit. i never used it and just had a look inside without taking anything out when i got it.for years i just put my survival gear in the pockets of my PFD wrapped up in zip locks and in the last few years wanted to get back to something like the Tacoma kit because it had a "cooking pot".maybe because i was not really into survival issues back then that kit was carried in my pack..sort of dumb because the pack already was full of camping gear.-i'll dig it out and post a photo.
Posted by: Pete

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 06:07 PM

Lono and Ironraven
Thanks for the recommendation. I hadn't seen these SS cups that fit on a nalgene bottle - but it's a clever idea! A great space saver. I'll keep an eye out for them.

One thing that would be really helpful is some kind of SS lid that fits on top of the SS cup. Very good for retaining heat. The cup itself can be used for warming up soup or drinks, and a lid helps to improve the heat retention. I'm not sure if the products you mention have a lid ... but it would be a great addition.

I have a couple of SS cups from places like REI. These cups don't fit the water bottle, and in addition they only have a plastic lid. Of course, the plastic lid can melt if the cup is heated directly on the flames of a stove. A plastic lid is fine if you've already boiled liquids using a kettle, but to save weight in a real survival situation the SS cup itself can be the kettle.

Anyway - thanks for pointing out the equipment!

Pete
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 07:05 PM

Lids... One thing I've noticed several times is that when they are mentioned its all about heat retention (which is very important). However you read another thread and it's all about the procurement of water.

If you only have a limited supply of water, lids are also good to stop all that precious water from evaporating. May only be 1/8th of a teaspoon at a time, but in serious conditions that can add up. So even if your lid is just tin foil with a dimple in the middle I would still want the cup covered.

My .02
Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Pete
One thing that would be really helpful is some kind of SS lid that fits on top of the SS cup.


Some of the high end, titanium ones do. And they are taller (larger) to boot.

But if you are going with a stainless steel one, no one makes a commercial lid for them. So you'll have to make one. Observe, the rim of the GSI or Olicamp cups are a perfect fit to the end of a coffee can. So, if you have a side cut can openner, use that, and carefully remove the end. A very basic lid. If you want to get fancy with an eyebolt and a nut, or just a bit of cotton cord, you've got a handle you can lift it off by.

But if you are going to do that to a coffee can... *looks around and whispers conspiratorially* Keep the coffee can. Get a hose clamp, and you can make yourself a removable handle. The coffee can is a tight fit for most Nalgene carriers, and not as tough as some of the other options, but considering that you can do that for fairly cheaply, so long as you don't kill your pot/cup with the hose clamp by over tightening it.

Right now I'm trying to decide on what to do for a handle material, then I'll be posting pictures. Probably over Thanksgiving weekend.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 08:38 PM

One thing to keep in mind- if you think your ONLY water might be contaminated by petrochems, bring it to a boil without the lid. That will let the volatiles boil off.

Then cross your fingers and hope you don't die.
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: ironraven
One thing to keep in mind- if you think your ONLY water might be contaminated by petrochems, bring it to a boil without the lid. That will let the volatiles boil off.

Then cross your fingers and hope you don't die.


Good point on that. I was thinking along the lines of already having purified the water before it went in the nalgene and then pouring it into the cup for warming at a later time in my last post.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 09:07 PM


Perhaps some titanium foil could be fashioned into an Orikaso Multi-functional Dish flat folding type metal cup for boiling and easier storage.

http://www.actionoutdoors.co.uk/orikaso_dish_use.htm

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/windscreens.html

I should have enough left to try out for such a project after making all the windscreens I could ever wish for when the titanium foil arrives from the USA.

Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/14/09 10:00 PM

Does anyone know if the Olicamp with the graduations on the side has a completely flat bottom or does it come up with an inner circle like the GSI (already have the GSI). Also are the graduations on the inside of the Oli aslo or just the outside?

Canoe Dogs - Keep us posted on how your new project is coming.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Pete
One thing that would be really helpful is some kind of SS lid that fits on top of the SS cup.


My Snow Peak 600 comes with a titanium lid that fits nice and tight to facilitate boiling. I checked through my various cloth canteen holders and found one that was big enough to accommodate the lid placed below the cup which in turn is nested around the Nalgene (or the recycled Gatorade bottle if I am really trying to save weight. A 1L platypus could also be used). I can also stuff in some HD aluminum foil for a windscreen. I found some very light weight plastic sheeting to place between the cup and the canteen - otherwise, the cup can become very grungy and I might not have a water to spare for cleaning.

Lids and windscreens have an enormous influence on the ability to boil water.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 03:02 AM

The foil thread was here. Even heavy-duty foil just isn't much good for heating water in. When you need a pot or cup, there isn't much else that will do.

Potlike containers have been extremely valuable to Mankind for several thousand years. Not having one in your kit is a serious omission, weight or bulk notwithstanding.

I always hated to see people in westerns drain the last drop of water from their canteen and then toss it. What were they planning on putting water in if they found any? Movie directors are dummies.

Sue
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 01:35 PM

Real men don't get thirsty.
Posted by: Compugeek

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Real men don't get thirsty.
Because they hydrate continuously?
Posted by: Pete

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 09:01 PM

T_Co and Ironraven

Great idea on just using aluminum foil for a lid. That ought to work pretty well as an improvised lid. Plus - you can buy heavy-duty tin-foil, and double it if you need to. I also like the idea of improvising a lid from the bottom of a coffee can. I have no idea why the people who make SS cups don't make a decent lid for these things.
----------------------

Hikermor said: "Real men don't get thirsty."

Yeah ... they just stay in the mountain bar and drink Corona's - and watch with amusement as the dehydrated hikers plod in at the end of the day.

Pete
Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Real men don't get thirsty.


Real buzzards like jerky. smile
Posted by: wildman800

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/09 09:31 PM

Why should they worry about dehydration when they have guns that never need reloading??

You need to place more faith in the script writers, that's why the hero can be shot to doll rags out in the middle of nowhere but wake up 2 weeks later in the arms of a beautiful woman who has nursed him back to health. Another 20 minutes and he's ready to go get shot to doll rags again.

Have faith Sue,,,,the Script Writers will provide.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 12:43 AM

Not only do they never have to reload, but the bullets in a downtown Los Angeles firefight evaporate as soon as they miss their target, so no innocent bystanders get hurt, like in real life.

I would DEARLY LOVE to read about a real survival situation where a director tries to survive somewhere. Buzzard bait!

Sue
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 12:44 AM

As you've probably noticed, I like pocket kits. And I was disappointed with the aluminum foil performance too. So far I've found 3 reliable solutions for a boiling pot improvisation from a flat pocketable stuff.

1. You can boil water using burning hot rocks placed in almost any container filled with water (e.g. carved piece of wood, waterproof hat, just a depression an a rock...). Even a plastic bag could work if you place the rock into an isolating screen (made from branches for example), so the rock can not touch the plastic.
2. Replace the cheap aluminum foil with a thin sheets of aluminum, which is easy to procure from large beer cans (I like Asahi cans for some reason smile they have a very thin and lightweight sidewalls). You can rig a very sturdy pots with these sheets.
3. Cut open a stainless steel hip flask (plan to try that with my 8 oz one, which fits most of my pockets very comfortably). And make a lid, folding handles, and a hanging wire for it.
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 01:28 AM

Alex, I saw a demo somewhere, I dont recall if it was TV, online, or real life, of a guy who boiled water in his hat by doing that. It looks like a great idea, until you have to drink out of your hat...and the hat didnt hold that much. That being said....
I carry a NATO canteen with tin cup, and, if needed, can boil water in it. The easiest way to do that is by heating rocks & dropping them into the water-of course, you need a steady supply of rocks, but a few minutes of fire prep, with the intent to do this, solves that. The bonus is the handle wont scald your hand smile
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 02:21 AM

USGI canteen and canteen cup are my backup.

Unless I'm bringing the Svea-123. In which case I have a 1.5L aluminum pot that it rides in. The top, w/folding handle, is also a fry pan/ lid/ bowl/ wide cup.

Depending on the situation a 20oz wide-mouth insulated plastic mug, $4 with a coffee fill at a gas station, gets a lot of use. You can't heat anything in it but you can pour in boiling water and stuff will cook/soak/hydrate. Works great for drinks like coffee or coco, oatmeal, dehydrated stuff.

I have been known to assemble a "hobo" cookware set, a one or two pound coffee can (depends on how many people and how much cooking we are planning on) and one or two soup cans for cups. Stiff wire, I have used bicycle spokes, #10 copper or galvanized 'nine wire' to form handles and hangers. After a weeks use they can burn thin and need replacing but they are cheap and easy to make. Thicker copper wire fittings can often be reused several times.
Posted by: sak45acp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 02:30 AM

An idea I found and plan on stealing from another site is to use the heavy aluminum disposable baking pans for your kit. The heavy duty pans do not spring leaks even after several foldings (so I've read)and they fold very compactly. One, or two, of the small 1 quart size pans can be brought to use to boil water in, folded square or into a cup shape under your water bottle, etc. One of these could also be cut up to make the lid for your existing Nalgene bottle space saver cup. Like I said , I haven't tried these yet, so YMMV, but I plan on testing them out. I already have a Snowpeak titanium cup that fits under a Nalgene, and several other small pots like the GI canteen cup. ONe always goes in the pack. The disposable baking pan foil thing will go in a larger PSK type deal where space/weight is an issue.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/16/09 03:29 AM

I've had those aluminum baking pans leak just from getting a little bent while sprouting seeds in them. I wouldn't bet my water-heating ability in a survival situation on them. Having a cup or pot that fits the bottom of your water bottle is far better.

Sue
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/17/09 01:28 PM

If NEW isn't important you can get 6 of the older Sigg type canteens that me and CanoeDogs were talking about HERE for $20. Froogled your new Sigg setup which is very nice, but only found 3 or 4 places that carry them and cheapest was $29 for 1. With the 6 pack you would have extra to experiment with or give as gifts.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/17/09 02:27 PM

T and Nitehike..i have one of those new Sigg canteens/cup combo,very-very nice!.a bit on the heavy side but you would expect that something that was top quality.it see's most of it's use in the fall and winter for boil-ups on day trips,snowshoe or X-country skiing.i like it for the oval shape which fits a jacket pocket better than a round flask or water bottle.
Posted by: Tyber

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/17/09 03:41 PM

Whil it isn't a pot, I miss the old GI styled mess kits that were ovel with one big fry pan and a bi-sected eating section, the handle fliped over and snaped shut.

When I did Trail Crew in Maine i used that for my lunch and it was just amazing.. then I lost it.. as is the way of life.

Eric
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/17/09 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Tyber
Whil it isn't a pot, I miss the old GI styled mess kits that were ovel with one big fry pan and a bi-sected eating section, the handle fliped over and snaped shut.

When I did Trail Crew in Maine i used that for my lunch and it was just amazing.. then I lost it.. as is the way of life.

Eric

Like THIS ?
Posted by: wildman800

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/17/09 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Tyber
Whil it isn't a pot, I miss the old GI styled mess kits that were ovel with one big fry pan and a bi-sected eating section, the handle fliped over and snaped shut.

When I did Trail Crew in Maine i used that for my lunch and it was just amazing.. then I lost it.. as is the way of life.

Eric


I still carry the US Army Issue Mess Kit, 2 canteen cups, and a Swedish Trangia Mess Kit/Stove in my BoB/Camping gear.
Posted by: LED

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Tyber
Whil it isn't a pot, I miss the old GI styled mess kits that were ovel with one big fry pan and a bi-sected eating section, the handle fliped over and snaped shut.

When I did Trail Crew in Maine i used that for my lunch and it was just amazing.. then I lost it.. as is the way of life.

Eric


As a kid that was my first camp cookware, bought from the surplus store. I love the extra large untensils. Still use 'em to this day.
Posted by: comms

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 04:43 AM

Wow. I still have my GI mess tin in my extra gear box. Not quite right for my current style of hiking/outdoor adventures, but I may toss that in my trunk.

I have been going back and forth for a year or two on the Ti cup. i have a Brunton tea kettle and pack my White Box Stove in it. For a cup I carry REI insulated cup / french press with this you can press your coffee and drink from the same mug. Haven't had much reason to get the Ti Cup with this set up...but its a titanium cup.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 06:09 AM


this is where i'm at on the Swiss Canteen re-make.



first from the box of camping odds and ends i came up with this dented canteen.when you get in on a "six for" deal at least one will be a bit battered.i gave away two and two of the last three were in nice shape with the plastic tag and corks.the third i'll get around to in a second.



i cut the top of the dented one and found as reported the inside to be coated with a light brown plastic.not wanting to cook in that as i had no idea of what it really was i took a propane torch to it.to my surprise it did not burn right off! i held the torch on one spot for minutes with no effect.after awhile it burned away.i'll have to take a wire brush to it and clean away the last of it to get just the aluminum surface i want.the canteen is made of thicker metal than the cup and will make a better pot.i'll add holes for a wire bale that will be attached after the sections are pulled apart for use.
ok now about that dent.it was impossible to remove.the walls are so stiff and thick that i could not push out the dent with any tool i had handy including wood blocks that were shaped to fit.
to much pressure distorted the other side so the plan is to use
the second rate but undamaged set for this project.
as i work along and fill the kit i'll post more photos.

Posted by: Basecamp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: sak45acp
An idea I found and plan on stealing from another site is to use the heavy aluminum disposable baking pans for your kit. The heavy duty pans do not spring leaks even after several foldings (so I've read)and they fold very compactly. ...

sak, could this be what you are refering to?
Dirttime Forum

Remember to make the mod of folding the bottom up twice. This isn't meant to be a heavy duty kit, but one of minimum storage space. Don't tweak the folds when you open it up, and press folds between fingers to re-flatten after use and before storage. I have boiled water in it, and opened it up and flattened it without leaks.

...& it was freely given, so no thievery is involved... grin
Posted by: scafool

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 11:50 PM

I still have a couple of the old Sierra cups. Thank you for reminding me to look for a couple more of them.

Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/18/09 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS

this is where i'm at on the Swiss Canteen re-make.


How did you cut it apart and how difficult was it to keep the cut at the correct angle?
Posted by: Dagny

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 12:10 AM

Originally Posted By: scafool
I still have a couple of the old Sierra cups. Thank you for reminding me to look for a couple more of them.



REI still carries them.



Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 04:42 AM

TC--i put the canteen in a vise with an old hunk of leather around it.i did not bear down on it to much as i did not want to push it out of shape.i went easy on the cutting and used a hacksaw with a carbide blade because that's what came to hand out of the tool box.i have one with a regular blade but the carbide was there and worked fine even if it made a heavy cut.i put duct tape around the canteen just a bit below the shoulder to mark the cut line and went slow.i held the bottle to steady it as i did not want to close the vise up too much and maybe crush it but it was held firmly in the vise.it was not like blasting thru a 2x4 with a hand saw,i took my time and watched what i was doing.the canteen is fairly thick aluminum and it took about 10 minutes.burning out the coating on the inside of just the cut off top with a propane torch took longer.when i burn out the main part of the canteen for the kit i'll just put it in my back yard fire ring.if it will take the blast of a torch it should take the heat from a wood fire that it will be used over anyway---
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 05:21 PM

I'm adding a small pot, metal cup or water bottle to my various kits for cooking or water boiling.
Posted by: Basecamp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 06:36 PM

Here is the best deal I have found on stainless kit boxes
(go to page 3, there are round and oval):

http://pearlriver.com/v2/FramesCat.asp?iGroup=333



Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 07:30 PM

BASE..i got the oval rice box.very nice,solid with a good lid and clamp down handle,the only problem for me was that it did not fit my PFD zip pocket.so there's the hassle,get a new PFD with bigger pockets to fit the containers or keep looking for a box/pot to fit into the existing PFD.the open water season is just about over up here so i have all winter to play around with this.
Posted by: Mark_F

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/19/09 08:11 PM

FWIW here's a link to the page with the articles on the aluminum foil failing as an improvised water container and using the aluminum foil pans in your PSK.

http://www.bepreparedtosurvive.com/Tips%20&%20Ideas%20for%20Survival%20Kits.htm

Just copy and paste into your browser. Enjoy smile
Posted by: Basecamp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/20/09 02:32 AM

Mark, is this in response to the general discussion about aluminum foil in kits or about the link to the flat cup? In general , aluminum foil will leak when creased and straightened, at some point. The link you posted was written by the same person who responded first to my linked article. New ideas emerge. That flat cup/pot hasn't failed yet, but it was not meant for long term.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/21/09 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Susan
I always hated to see people in westerns drain the last drop of water from their canteen and then toss it. What were they planning on putting water in if they found any? Movie directors are dummies.

That is normally done by the writers for dramatic effect, not meant as a lesson in survival.

I say this as an amateur dramatic writer.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/21/09 07:50 PM


i always like the squeezing the water skin bit..
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/23/09 11:36 PM

Re-thinking a bit: The trouble with pots is they won't be there when you don't bring your full gear. Why not just put a small PSK into a wide mouth stainless steel water bottle? The wide version of the Klean Kanteen comes to mind, find the appropriate size here:
Klean Kanteen dimensions


For boiling you need to add some suspension method, a wire loop should do the trick. The budget version is to cut off the outer shell of an old thermos, just below the threads.


The perfect PSK container would for me be a square stainless steel "lunch box" shape that is thin enough to slip into a pocket. Much better volume/size ratio than a cylinder.


I am also testing the less reliable method of folding a flat cup that fits into your PSK. With my current setup, I can make one about 4 by 5 inches that holds about 14 cups (a bit more than 4 dl). You need the thick aluminium baking pans for this to work - and you make the cup at home, not in the field. Far from perfect, but leaps ahead of the aluminium foil trick that is included in some PSK's.
Posted by: Basecamp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
...I am also testing the less reliable method of folding a flat cup that fits into your PSK. With my current setup, I can make one about 4 by 5 inches that holds about 14 cups (a bit more than 4 dl). You need the thick aluminium baking pans for this to work - and you make the cup at home, not in the field. Far from perfect, but leaps ahead of the aluminium foil trick that is included in some PSK's.


Any photo reference for this one? Sounds like a great capacity.
Posted by: sak45acp

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Basecamp
Originally Posted By: sak45acp
An idea I found and plan on stealing from another site is to use the heavy aluminum disposable baking pans for your kit. The heavy duty pans do not spring leaks even after several foldings (so I've read)and they fold very compactly. ...

sak, could this be what you are refering to?
Dirttime Forum

Remember to make the mod of folding the bottom up twice. This isn't meant to be a heavy duty kit, but one of minimum storage space. Don't tweak the folds when you open it up, and press folds between fingers to re-flatten after use and before storage. I have boiled water in it, and opened it up and flattened it without leaks.

...& it was freely given, so no thievery is involved... grin


That wasn't what I was referring to, but I'm going to steal that, too wink I saw the baking pan thing on the Be Prepared to Survive site.
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 01:19 AM

Read the one by John. Goes into detail about it. Saw a very similar thread around here about it as well.

Here is a video where they show you how to make a baking can. If you modified the dimensions you could probably make a cup. look around there he also shows how to make cakes in the.

Not affiliated with there site, no endorsements.
Posted by: fooman

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 01:25 AM

I'm using the GI 'Artic' canteen cup as part of a kit.

The cup is upper centre.


The cup fits nicely into the bottom of the pouch



The pouch is a Radio pouch of the AIRSAV aircrew survival vest.


Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
The trouble with pots is they won't be there when you don't bring your full gear.


I approach it from another direction- how far can you strip your gear and NOT have a pot or reasonable facsimile to boil water in. I do not mean folded up and soon to be leaking aluminum foil anything.

This is the reason I like the space saver cups and canteen cups- if you a water bottle or canteen, you should have a cup. Given how well they fit in most of the carriers, there isn't much excuse to not have one. As I've said, you can tuck a coffee can into any place you can put a space saver cup, so money isn't a very good excuse. If you are utterly wedded to carrier that is so tight it can't hold the cup, then switch to a metal bottle on the same form factor, like the Goyets, which fit anything that will hold a Nalgene, no mater how tight.

The only reason to NOT have a pot or cup or a metal water bottle (I find the Goyet's superior in fit and function to the Kleen Kanteen, IMHO) is if circumstances leave you with only what was in a secured pocket or dog leashed to your person, such as mightbe the case if you are crossing a river and a current grabbed you and now that you are out of the river all you can do is wave bye-bye to your pack as it goes down river.

Alternatively, you can use a box like you said. The old French mess tin, with the middle piece removed, is a big PSK, but it will fit in a jacket pocket or into the pocket of most hydro packs. Slipped into a spare watch cap and a pair of gallon freezer bags, it is a good fit in a 6x3x7 pouch. There are also rigid mini loaf pans the size of the foil ones that won't leak and tear. Shouldn't be too hard to make a lid out of flashing or heavy foil, and slip that into a jacket pocket or into a belt pouch.

But if what you are thinking is more heavy duty altoids-sized tin, why bother? It isn't enough water to stress on honestly. I'd rather have chlorine tabs and a turkey roasting bag than to boil water less than a quarter cup at a time.
Posted by: fooman

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 03:18 AM

Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Fooman further reminded me I need to build a new larger PSK since I tore apart my old one to (The Ritter PSP contents, at least) to make a new EDC Survival Tin.


Damn yooous....now my Christmas list gets longer.


That's what we're all here for. Hahah.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 03:22 AM

Nice Kit Fooman, Thanks for posting it.

Mike
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: fooman
I'm using the GI 'Artic' canteen cup as part of a kit.


That cup seems (almost) just the right shape and size - and I REALLY like your kit! smile

I'm assuming that AMK bag is some bivy bag or similar - what kind and what size?
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: ironraven
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
The trouble with pots is they won't be there when you don't bring your full gear.


I approach it from another direction- how far can you strip your gear and NOT have a pot or reasonable facsimile to boil water in. I do not mean folded up and soon to be leaking aluminum foil anything. (snip...)


The only reason to NOT have a pot or cup or a metal water bottle (I find the Goyet's superior in fit and function to the Kleen Kanteen, IMHO) is if circumstances leave you with only what was in a secured pocket or dog leashed to your person. (snip... )


But if what you are thinking is more heavy duty altoids-sized tin, why bother? It isn't enough water to stress on honestly. I'd rather have chlorine tabs and a turkey roasting bag than to boil water less than a quarter cup at a time.


Lots of very good points. If I have my pack I have a pot, simple as that. I'm looking for something small enough to be included in a pocket survival kit, yet big enough to be of practical use. Those altoids tin seems awful small for the job...

The "Arctic GI cup" shown above looks perfect for inclusion in a bag kit, but still a tad big for pocket carry. So is the cups around 2 inch diameter: Perfect for most bags, slightly uncomfortable in the pocket.

I think the best bet so far would be to cut the top of a 10 oz (2.3dl) or bigger oval or kidney shaped hip flask. Cut off the top, add two holes for suspension and of course you stuff it with PSK items. Small enough to be comfortable in your pocket, big enough to be useful (just below your quart pint limit) and with a shape that goes well with suspension from a string or wire. I'll do an asymmetric cut so the opening is slightly lower on one side, this makes filling with snow easier.

Anyone who knows about where to get stainless steel hip flasks bigger than 10 oz?
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless

I think the best bet so far would be to cut the top of a 10 oz (2.3dl) or bigger oval or kidney shaped hip flask.


Are you going to be staying by your water source or have one available for the duration of your stay? That does not seem like enough especially if you would be exerting yourself.
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless

I think the best bet so far would be to cut the top of a 10 oz (2.3dl) or bigger oval or kidney shaped hip flask. Cut off the top, add two holes for suspension and of course you stuff it with PSK items. Small enough to be comfortable in your pocket, big enough to be useful (just below your quart pint limit) and with a shape that goes well with suspension from a string or wire. I'll do an asymmetric cut so the opening is slightly lower on one side, this makes filling with snow easier.

That's my idea exactly.



  • Brown - the hip flask split at the top.
  • Green - steel band collar, welded or glued to the bottom part (increasing volume and mouth opening a bit), with suspension wire holes, and some means of lid tightening (not shown).
  • Blue - gasket glued to the top part (allows to use it as a watertight flask again).

I have 8 oz flask. It's almost 1 cup. But you can find similar one for 12 oz (just google 12 oz hip flask).
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: T_Co

Are you going to be staying by your water source or have one available for the duration of your stay? That does not seem like enough especially if you would be exerting yourself.

T_Co, look at the Subject line. We're discussing pots, not water carrying containers.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/24/09 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: T_Co

Are you going to be staying by your water source or have one available for the duration of your stay? That does not seem like enough especially if you would be exerting yourself.


Let me elaborate: The modified hip flask is not for water carrying - but melting snow and boiling water. It would boil about 2 dl (6-7 oz), which isn't very much - but it is small enough to stay on my person when my pack doesn't and far more reliable than any collapsible aluminium foil trick.

If I have my pack I have at least one water bottle and at least one cocking pot (or something to that effect). And - water availability is usually not a problem in my part of the woods.

ALEX: That is a very neat idea. I can't weld (though I know someone who does), and anyway 2 dl / 6-7 ounces is just to feeble amount to worry about carrying anyway - gulp it down and be happy smile For carrying more substantial amounts there's always the condome trick or the breast milk freezer bag trick.

One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.
Posted by: fooman

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: fooman
I'm using the GI 'Artic' canteen cup as part of a kit.


That cup seems (almost) just the right shape and size - and I REALLY like your kit! smile

I'm assuming that AMK bag is some bivy bag or similar - what kind and what size?


Glad you guys like it. Its something I put together one lazy afternoon with stuff I already had, and I suspect most of us already have lying around the house. haha.

I actually bought the cup and pouch at the same time off ebay but it didn't occur to me that it would fit until some time later.

Yes, its the AMK Emergency Bivvy Bag, which is the bag version of the Heatsheets emergency blanket.
Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy
Weight: 3.5oz
Size: 36" x 84"

I haven't weighed it but I'd say the size and weight of kit and the hard cup make it pretty uncomfortable to carry in a pocket.
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:10 AM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.


No, it wouldn't. Snow is fluffy stuff: Out of 10 pints of new fresh powdery snow you make about 1 pint of water. Very hard, old snow the ratio is perhaps down to 5 : 1. Just driving the flask into the snow will gain you perhaps 0.5 oz of water, hardly anything at all.

You need to cram it, stuff it and compress it to get a noticeable amount of water in there. Melting snow is extremely tedious because of this. Sacrificing 1 oz of effective volume to gain a much wider mouth opening seems to me a very good compromise.

There's of course some tricks of the trade involved in snow melting. Starting out with a little bit of water, adding more snow so you don't have powdery snow, but some slushy water/snow mix is most efficient. You want as big a pot with as big an opening as possible. Melting snow in that cute little hip flask will be tedious to the extreme, to say the least.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 02:06 PM

Not only tedious, but also doubles (or more) your fuel consumption. Something to consider.
Posted by: LCranston

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 05:15 PM

My boss just handed me 2 empty can/bottles of "Venom Energy Drink"

Link to picture of the Can.

http://energyfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/venom_energy_black.jpg

16.9 Oz Can/Bottle that I cannot crush with one hand. Top is like a soda bottle, but nearly the size of a Gatorade lid. It does not appear to be lined.

It might make a very cheap, reasonable size pot...
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 05:19 PM

Fear not, citizens! Just last night I tested what may be the ultimate pack-flat PSK water boiling container.

Turns out they make stainless steel foil pouches for protecting metal parts during heat treating. While only .002" thick, it is very tough material that blows away aluminum foil or baking pans. They are made from two pieces of foil seam welded along three sides.

I tried the smallest one available from McMaster-Carr: 2.5"x5". When puffed out it held just over 1/4 cup of water - a little too small. The next size up is 4"x6" which would be more practical.

The near-fatal downside is that the edges are razor sharp. The last thing you need in an emergency is to slice all your fingers open, especially because we have to assume you're down to just your PSK. I'll experiment with rolling the edges over to make it safe.

I used a pin to poke a hole in either corner near the open end and added a bail made from stainless snare wire. This is essential for hanging it over the fire. Within seconds of taking it out of the flames, you can hold it by the edges with your bare hands.

Another essential companion is a container for cooling and storage. Probably a plastic bag - if you had room for a rigid container you have room for a real cup too.

I'll take some photos over the weekend.
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 05:35 PM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.


No, it wouldn't. Snow is fluffy stuff: Out of 10 pints of new fresh powdery snow you make about 1 pint of water. Very hard, old snow the ratio is perhaps down to 5 : 1. Just driving the flask into the snow will gain you perhaps 0.5 oz of water, hardly anything at all.

You need to cram it, stuff it and compress it to get a noticeable amount of water in there. Melting snow is extremely tedious because of this. Sacrificing 1 oz of effective volume to gain a much wider mouth opening seems to me a very good compromise.

There's of course some tricks of the trade involved in snow melting. Starting out with a little bit of water, adding more snow so you don't have powdery snow, but some slushy water/snow mix is most efficient. You want as big a pot with as big an opening as possible. Melting snow in that cute little hip flask will be tedious to the extreme, to say the least.

I think he meant FILLED with snow, not water
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Not only tedious, but also doubles (or more) your fuel consumption. Something to consider.
Not necessarily true. The flask is flat, so the snow insulation properties will be lower. The overall volume is small too, so you can use body heat to melt the snow (That's one of the reasons I want to keep the water tight flask function, which is near to impossible with a not straight line mouth shape).
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Not only tedious, but also doubles (or more) your fuel consumption. Something to consider.


It's not camping nor hiking gear - I already have that. It is emergency gear small enough that it fits a pocket, for those occations without my backpack / daypack. Sacrificing comfort, convenience and efficiency for small sice.
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
No, it wouldn't. Snow is fluffy stuff: Out of 10 pints of new fresh powdery snow you make about 1 pint of water. Very hard, old snow the ratio is perhaps down to 5 : 1. Just driving the flask into the snow will gain you perhaps 0.5 oz of water, hardly anything at all.

I'm not arguing that, I'm just can't see how a wider mouth (with the volume - constant) can do the job better. Scoop, compact with a stick, scoop again, compact again... What I'm missing?
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Alex

I'm not arguing that, I'm just can't see how a wider mouth (with the constant volume) can do the job better. Scoop, compact with a stick, scoop again, compact again... What I'm missing?


In short, I think 3/4 inch is quite a narrow slot to fill... and I'm very confident that the "U" cut version will be more effective.


Making a U-cut at the outward curve side will let you scoop much more effectively because of the wider opening. On hard snow you use it as a carpenters plane iron, all that is "shaved off" goes into the boottle.

And when the first snow is (partially) melted you want to add more snow, using your hand or whatever else you have available for the job. (Snow is best melted in a water/slush mixture, so use the first water as "seed" to melt more snow). Expanding the opening will greatly simplifly the job of adding more snow and compressing it inside the pot.


Perhaps I shouldn't be as persistent about what will work best when I haven't tested it. I am 100% confident I'm correct about this, having done my part of mucking about in the snow and all that. But let's just say I do my bottle my way and I promise to back to tell you if it works out the way I wanted, shall we? If I'm wrong I'm not afraid to tell you, that's just a shared learning experience.
Posted by: Alex

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/25/09 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
But let's just say I do my bottle my way and I promise to back to tell you if it works out the way I wanted, shall we? If I'm wrong I'm not afraid to tell you, that's just a shared learning experience.

Deal smile I hope to finish mine on this long weekend. And plan a snow adventure for 6 days on New Year week.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: ...and a pot. - 01/24/10 09:55 AM

anyone know what this is like?
The Sock

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/c...eel-534979.html
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 01/29/10 01:16 AM

Haven't tried one but I also saw a couple styles at this place

They also have canteen cup lids there.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: ...and a pot. - 01/29/10 02:07 AM

Quote:


Certainly beats the military chemical heaters i.e. flameless ration heaters if you want your 24hr ORP boil in the bag meals hot enough but you'll need either a plastic or double walled cup if you want to drink a hot brew out of one of these. The Hexamine and Fuel Gel are pretty messy though but they do work (esp with the Hexitabs ). The set is pretty indestructible though and not much can go wrong.

Personally I would go with something a little lighter, faster, controllable and efficient such as the Gelert Blaze PZ Micro Titanium Folding Gas Stove (Markill Peak Ignition Copy) and Primus Etapower 1.2 litre pot (Etapower pots are extremely fuel efficient and will over time will save money due to the cost of the expensive gas canisters).

http://www.worldofcamping.co.uk/shop/gelert_blaze_pz_micro_folding_gas_stove__2642

http://www.ultimateadventurehardware.co.uk/item/Brand_Primus-EtaPower-Pot-12L_91_0_282_0.html

Or even the Swedish Trangia cookset if cost is a factor.

http://www.ronniesunshines.com/swedish-trangia-stove-mess-billy-camp-cook-p-988.html

Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/04/10 06:26 PM

Wish I had followed this thread back in November. This is one of my concerns. I have the GSI cup that fits over a Nalgene. I have made an entire kit around it and carry it in my briefcase daily as well as slipping it in my pack when I'm outof doors.

I'd love a container that I could use to hold a pocket kit that would also double as a cook pot. Problem with Altoid type tins (aside from size) is that they are oriented the wrong way.

30 years ago, as a kid in Scouts, someone was giving us a wilderness survival class and I remember him pulling a metal band-aid box out of his "survival pouch" and saying he kept it in there to use as a pot to boil water. I've always thought that something like that would be about the correct size (maybe a little big) for a pocket kit. But the Band-aid boxes had seams, were made out of tin, and are largely unavailable now.

I'd really like to see a "band-aid" type box made out of stainless steel (or titanium) similar to my GSI mug (i.e., no seams and similar handles - a snug fitting lid is also part of my wish). Such a kit would fit in a cargo pocket for outdoor pursuits but would not necessarily be my EDC pocket kit. I am constantly looking for such a beast but to no avail.
Posted by: Jeff_M

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/04/10 06:50 PM

I've always considered the cup-over-Nalgene to be the best currently available solution.

I'd like to see a molded plastic insert with a metal lid that would fit snugly into a large sierra cup, with the plastic bowl serving as a container for a survival kit, and the sierra cup with fitted lid serving to boil water or cook in. It's easy to hook a sierra cup handle securely under a belt or strap for convenient carry.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/05/10 12:06 AM

Vargo makes a large (750 ml) Sierra Cup with lid that comes close. It is fiendishly expensive ($40).

I have been fiddling around with a standard size Sierra cup. A plastic "I Can't Believe It is Not Butter" tub can be fitted to the cup, tacking it in place with Gorilla tape. Unfortunately the plastic lid can't stay on when boiling water. I am fiddling with a lid made from aluminum flashing, but it is defintely a work in progress.

I agree that the cup over canteen (I like a Gatorade bottle rather than a Nalgene) to be the best combo available right now.
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/05/10 02:03 AM

I carry a stainless steel cup that originally cost me $4.00 some years ago.

This cup goes on every hiking trip no matter the location, distance or time duration and has provided many a cup of hot tea while sitting around the campfire. The cup sits perfectly on a MSR PocketRocket or Whisperlite stove and is equally comfortable sitting in or beside a wood fueled campfire.

Posted by: clarktx

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/05/10 02:19 PM

I bit the bullet and went for the $6 for $20. the cup/nalgene thing is definitely useful but I agree that it makes a cool PSK.

Even making 2 or 3 for me, and if I make one as a gift for someone, I probably don't need 6. If anyone in the Houston area needs one, PM me.

I really didn't like buying more than I needed. I did find a cool coupon for SG on some website and got $10 off, which took the sting out of it...
Posted by: LED

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/05/10 07:39 PM

Wow, I love well worn camp cookware. Lots of history in that cup.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 01:17 AM

Miner,

I agree with you 100%, I cannot find a container of that size and orientation. Two days ago I found a British Tea container that is about the correct size but still has a welded seam and folded type bottom. It has the image of a red London Double Decker bus pressed into the exterior. Lots of round containers available but they are difficult to pack and do not store as well. What is needed is a BCB Mess Tin with the top being on one of the sides.

I have boxes full of potential PSK containers. I auctioned off a PSK 2 weeks ago (money went to youth group) and used a Twinnings Tea can as the container. Now I am having trouble replacing it as the local containers are all cardboard.

Mike
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 01:21 AM

I bought 10 of these cups to go in Ice Rescue/Survival kits that I am building. I figured I will bend the handle down to the side and under the cup, then drill a small hole in the lip of the cup across from the handle for a bail wire to be attached to.

Mike
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 01:55 AM

Originally Posted By: LED
Wow, I love well worn camp cookware. Lots of history in that cup.


Yes there is a lot of history and memories in the cup. From the ocean shores to the dry grasslands to the high mountain alpine and to the north country, this cup has been there along with lots of good company and conversations around the campfire over the years.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 05:13 AM

Thanks SwampDonkey,

I was starting to get a complex thinking I had an odd idea. I'll keep looking and if I ever find it, I'll grab 2 and then try to figure out how to get one to you:-)
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 01:50 PM

Tacoma Mountain Rescue sells a kit packed in a metal tin, 5x3.5x2.5, for $20. The kit contains matches, candle, etc. for that all important nice cup of tea.
Posted by: GauchoViejo

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 04:39 PM

Has anyone tried a 500 ml olive oil can? It fits inside a M14 mag pouch.
Posted by: GauchoViejo

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/06/10 04:49 PM

Hi Teslinhiker. Do you know where I can buy a couple of those cups?
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 12:15 AM

Originally Posted By: GauchoViejo
Hi Teslinhiker. Do you know where I can buy a couple of those cups?


I purchased my cup from a local and now closed down hardware store, however I see them occasionally in the camping sections of some stores. SwampDonkey posted that he purchased 10 of these cups, perhaps he can share what store they were purchased from.

Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 04:21 AM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Tacoma Mountain Rescue sells a kit packed in a metal tin, 5x3.5x2.5, for $20. The kit contains matches, candle, etc. for that all important nice cup of tea.


I've seen those. But still the same problems as with a band-aid box: seam down the side and a rolled in bottom. Plus a little wider than I'd like. But thanks.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 12:30 PM

Hey,
I have a Tacona Mountain Rescue Kit that I found on clearance sale at "The Source", what used to be Radio Shack in Canada.

Miner is correct the container is a little larger than pocket size and it does have seams/rolled bottom.

I was thinking about what it would take to form a container out of heavy aluminum sheeting? Like hammer it around a form? Any ideas?

Mike
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 03:01 PM

i see that Tacoma Mountain kit as a "one use" sort of thing.you would more that likely just use it for a one,two at the most overnights if you were caught out on the trail by darkness or bad weather.even if the seams were not perfect all you want to get out of it is a couple cups of tea and soup until you can move on.i would think that the kit would be scrapped after one use.
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 06:49 PM

Hmmmmmm... an Altoids tin size but open on the end...

I'm workin' on it, please stand by.

Any preference for Stainless vs. aluminum?
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 07:57 PM

If you desire a seamless cup for continual use, as opposed to intermittent "survival" use, there are two options - 1)Stainless steel cups, preferably with folding handles, that fit snugly over the base of a Nalgene canteen - 2) titanium cups like the Snow Peak 700 - similar configuration and very tough and as light as aluminum. Titanium does not alter the taste of that nice cup of tea or whatever else you prepare in it. They are not cheap ($25+/-), but they will last forever.
Posted by: rebwa

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 08:23 PM

I've had the Snow Peak Ti 700 cup which came as a starter set with the gigi stove, lid and spork included, for a few months now and love it. It's been put to good use this winter for a steaming cup of the new starbucks via coffee. The set has a permanent home in my SUV.

http://www.rei.com/product/787957
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/07/10 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
If you desire a seamless cup for continual use, as opposed to intermittent "survival" use, there are two options - 1)Stainless steel cups, preferably with folding handles, that fit snugly over the base of a Nalgene canteen - 2) titanium cups like the Snow Peak 700 - similar configuration and very tough and as light as aluminum. Titanium does not alter the taste of that nice cup of tea or whatever else you prepare in it. They are not cheap ($25+/-), but they will last forever.


Titanium coffee cups are great if all you ever use is a gas stove. Previous experience has proven that titanium cups over a wood campfire do warp after very little repeated use due to much higher heat that wood fire coals can reach compared to some petroleum based fuels

In theroy you should always use a kettle, however the bigger cups can hold up to 20 oz and instead of carrying and using a kettle which is not always in the plan, the cup gets used as both a small cook pot and as a kettle.

I also have a titanium kettle that has suffered the same fate and is warped enough that it does not sit level and the lid is pain to fit.

If you go the T-cup route and plan to use it over an open fire, find the thickest single wall cup you can as there are some out there thicker then others. Also stay away from double wall cups that may also be used as a cook pot/kettle.

Due to the above, this is why I carry a stainless cup. I am not too concerned about the extra weight of the stainless cup. And if I was that worried about it in the long run, it would be better for me to lose a couple of lbs of body weight instead of saving a few ounces with a T-cup...
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 01:12 AM

Hi Tom,

Glad to hear you are on the problem. SS of Aluminum, I would use either.

I do not think an Altoids tin is the correct size for this "Ultimate PSK Tin" as it would be difficult to load with stuff because it would be so thin.

I searched my supply of tins/PSK's and think the largest PSK that I would pocket carry would be app. 1.5" deep x 4" wide x 6" tall. I have this size kit made in a steel tackle box that I have pocket carried in my snowmobile floater jacket for 3 years. The kit is an O.K. size but the lid opens on the wide top, it is also a pinned/hinged lid so the water you could boil in it would be limited. I do not know if it would be best to have the end or side open, one makes a better billy can, the other is easier to load with stuff. This tin is not large enough to contain shelter items, I store an AMK Bivy/Heatsheet/cordage in a soft pouch in the same pocket.

I played around with having 2 tins slip into each other, like the Coghlin's Type 2 1st Aid Kit in the curved yellow plastic box. I started out using 2 SPAM tins but the plastic coating was really nasty to remove.

Who was working with the Sigg canteen cups, that looked like a good idea, just needed a top?

Mike
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 04:10 AM


Mike..that was me.--i'm doing the Swiss Army canteen cut off as a container.i have the pot and cup part done and took a few photos but i'm still working on the contents of what will be the food side of my PFD ditch/survival vest.when i'm done i'll do a new post of the results.mine will be 5 1/2 inches when done so it fits in the PFD pocket but you could pull it apart to about 9 inches and not only have room inside for a full kit with a foil blanket and odds and ends but have the two parts still firmly together.the fellow over at Woods Monkey who came up with this had a real brain wave,the combo of cup and a pot that fit and seal means you have a way to make a meal and a drink at the same time and both are good size..but more when i'm done with this project.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 04:42 AM

Originally Posted By: thseng
Hmmmmmm... an Altoids tin size but open on the end...

I'm workin' on it, please stand by.

Any preference for Stainless vs. aluminum?


Stainless but would not complain if aluminum. But think those old metal Band-aid boxes (not Altoid sized). I'm thinking 3" by 5" by 1" or 1.5" (maybe 4" by 6" and 1" to 1.5" thick). The smallest side being the side that opens.
Posted by: LED

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 06:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Titanium coffee cups are great if all you ever use is a gas stove. Previous experience has proven that titanium cups over a wood campfire do warp after very little repeated use due to much higher heat that wood fire coals can reach compared to some petroleum based fuels



IIRC, titanium is a very poor conductor of heat. If its not heated evenly the Ti will probably warp due to the temp difference. That can happen easily with a those pocket butane stoves too cause they put out so much heat in a small burner. Anyway, I guess with Ti it might help to heat the pot as evenly as possible, but even then there's no guarantee it won't warp. I've never had a problem with warping but thats may be because I use an alcohol stove which doesn't burn too hot and heats slower.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 07:14 AM

Originally Posted By: thseng
Hmmmmmm... an Altoids tin size but open on the end...

I'm workin' on it, please stand by.

Any preference for Stainless vs. aluminum?


Great smile

I'm all for stainless.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 02:52 PM

CANOEDOGS - Looking forward to your completed "Ditch Kit" and post. Your kit is very similar to the "Ice Rescue Kit" that I have been working on for the past month.

The other thing about a 2 part sliding container is that you can use the top section and not have to tear the entire kit apart. This way you would have an EDC type of metal cooking pot that is available for use whenever you want (e.g. hot drink on the trail, rehydrate meals, sterilize water).

When I was a kid in shop class 30 years ago we had a large hydraulic press that we used to play with. Would it be possible to make a large die that a piece of sheet metal could be pressed into to creat a new container? Just "spit-balling" here, I have no real experience in actually doing this.

Mike
Posted by: Herman30

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 03:54 PM

Anyone owning these two cups:

http://www.campsaver.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=snp0026

http://www.rei.com/product/708071

I would be greatful to get the INSIDE measurments of them both.

Thank you!
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
If you desire a seamless cup for continual use, as opposed to intermittent "survival" use, there are two options - 1)Stainless steel cups, preferably with folding handles, that fit snugly over the base of a Nalgene canteen - 2) titanium cups like the Snow Peak 700 - similar configuration and very tough and as light as aluminum. Titanium does not alter the taste of that nice cup of tea or whatever else you prepare in it. They are not cheap ($25+/-), but they will last forever.


I have a seamless stainless steel cup (actually holds about 2 cups) with folding handles that fits over a Nalgene bottle (It is a GSI Glacier Stainless Steel Cup - http://www.buzzmug.com/cart/shopexd.asp?id=202 ). I also have a seamless titanium cup with folding handles that too fits over a Nalgene bottle (it is a Snowpeak Trek 700 - http://www.snowpeak.com/back/cookware/titanium.html ). I use the Snowpeak as my backpacking pot and the GSI as a container for a wilderness survival kit (but this kit has to ride in a pack, not a pocket). Both are great for my uses. However, neither fits in a pocket very well (if at all).

Therefore, my wish is for a 3" by 5" or 4" by 6" or something in that range that is 1" to 1.5" thick. Rectangular shape with no seams or rolled edges that opens on the end (i.e. the smallest exterior surface), with a snug fitting lid, made from (in order of preference) titanium, stainless steel, or aluminum (definitely not tin), and with folding handles (similar to my above mentioned cups). This container would then be used to assemble an EDC kit.

I've looked and looked and am pretty sure that such a container does not exist, but I'm still holding out hope. The cut down hip flask is probably the closest I've seen and I may end up trying that at some point if my dream container does not soon become available.

Posted by: rebwa

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Herman30
Anyone owning these two cups:

http://www.campsaver.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=snp0026

http://www.rei.com/product/708071

I would be greatful to get the INSIDE measurments of them both.

Thank you!


On the Snow Peak 700

Top to bottom 4 and 1/4"

across at top just a hair under 4"

across at bottom 3 and 3/4"
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 06:23 PM

I hope you guys show some nice, clear photos when your brainstorms are worked out. Be sure to use some good lighting.

And start a new thread for them, so they aren't overlooked.

Sue
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 09:11 PM

Here's what I have so far:

1" x 2" x 3.5" deep (~1/2 cup)
1.4" x 3" x 3.75" deep (~1 cup)
1.75 x 3.5" x 4.25" deep (~1.75 cups)

Available in aluminum and stainless. Rectangular, seamless, radiused corneres, plain edge, not rolled. Shallow lid, probably need to be held-on and sealed with tape. No handles yet.

These are "standard" sizes but made to order. No idea if the price and lot quantities are sane yet, but if they are I may just order up a few batches.

I'll keep you posted.

Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 10:18 PM

I have been playing with an idea and some dremel rotary tools: Stainless steel mugs (cups) which essentially are just two layers of stainless steel with air in between. No seams, at least not on the inside. I got mine from the local gas station (they're trying to get loyal customers by selling "free coffee refill cups" for about $15, valid for a year at the time), but similar cups are available in a lot of places.

Anyway, my cup is a cylinder about 4-5 inches tall and just a tad smaller than 2 inches across. I did some dremel art and it turned out to something that may prove functional. Remains to be tested and verified.

The general idea is that the outer shell is a small fire chamber. The inner cup is for boiling, heating water and melting snow. The inner cup is put back into the outer shell when not in use, kept in place by friction created by a thick rubber band between those two layers. The inner cup retains about half an inch of the outer layer near the top, so I can put my mouth to it as usual. It even has the original drinking lid and handle!

Now the fire part - works, no mystery, but the overall setup is kind of fiddly. You will have to either support the fire cup part by rocks or suspend it beneath a branch (some thin steel wire rests in the void between those two shells for this purpose). The inner part will either rest directly on the outer part or be suspended. I've drilled a couple of holes for suspension in both parts. I've also cut a fire door and some ventilation slots in the outer shell. Around the cup I've wrapped some bicycle tubes (cut and glued to fit, this "ranger band" thing is a mystery to me). This rubber sleeve will keep my pack clean and is also backup tinder. And - the cup still looks and serves as an ordinary cup!

I'm assembling a small fire making kit and perhaps some other goodies to fit inside the cup - after all, it has a few cubic inches of space inside, and it is the logical place to put some fire making goodies, right?

Now all that remains is a) pictures, b) further field testing. The cup is small enough to fit a jacket pocket, sort of, and virtually ignored in a pack. I THINK this setup can turn out to be a nice and permanent part of my hiking setup, but further tests are needed.

The nicest thing about this setup is that - often you want to bring a cup anyway, right? Any chance of coffee? You bring a cup! Might just as well be creative about it... my little cup has some secrets..
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/08/10 10:45 PM

Sound Good Tom, Thanks for taking on this challange.

Mike
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/09/10 04:10 AM

Sounds awesome Tom!!! Keep us posted.

Alan
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/11/10 12:26 PM

I am hoping Tom's pots will be available at not too expensive prices...


While waiting for Tom's pots to come out of "may-happen" status I've been tinkering with some ideas of my own... looking around, trying to see possibilities within my own every day items.

As indicated in my post above, I've done some dremel art on a double walled stainless pot. Just your regular inexpensive SS cup, nothing fancy.

Slightly less than two inches in diameter. A rubber sleeve is around it.

The pot comes apart with a cut in the outer shell, about half an inch below the top.

A rubber band keeps the two pieces together by friction.
The outer shell is a "fire cup" for small twigs fire.
The purpose of the rubber sleeve is to cover the fire door and prevent smearing my pack with soot. Also, rubber is an excellent backup tinder.

The cup is also useful for a limited number of firemaking goodies. A small plastic container (bottom right) makes for easy removal of those.

Contents list, starting at top left:
Upper row:
Rubber sleeve,
Outer shell / fire cup
Inner cup, for heating and drinking
Drinking lid

Bottom row:
Steel wires, several sections pre-cut into 1-2 foot pieces
Fire steel
Swiss army knife
Petroleum jelly cotton balls
Lighter
Plastic container.

Weight of cup+sleeve+lid: 140 grams. The plastic cup with contents currently weights about 150 grams, but that can be adjusted both ways by replacing with other gear.

Now the idea is that these items will be used for pleasure and survival situations:

- when offered something to drink I just remove the plastic container and use the cup in the conventional fashion.

- I can use the inner cup plus steel wire to make a hot drink over a fire

- I can make fire in the small fire cup if fire making options are limited (little good firewood available, legal restrictions and so on). I have a vain hope that this can prove good for heating a small emergency shelter, but further testing is required before I can suggest this as a viable option. There are some smoke issues, spark issues and fire safety considerations that really can't be ignored.

The weakest part of the system is finding a stable platform for the fire cup implementation. My current plan is to use the steel wire to suspend it when suitable rock/sand is unavailable, but I've still to prove that this will prove robust and reliable. I've drilled some holes along the rim for a two-point and a three-point wire suspension. And the cup is about 2.5 deciliter (7-8 ounces), not very big.

It is far from a full blown wilderness survival kit, but it can be part of one. The current setup would cover the water + fire part of a kit.

The connoiseur in me very much appreciate the wine opener on the swiss army knife. The wilderness preparation purist in me would very much like a more robust knife...

Oh, and did I mention dish washer safe and no seams?

All in all, I had great fun assembling this, which I think is rather out of the ordinary. I am eager to see if this survives the "proof of concept" stage of testing.
Posted by: GauchoViejo

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/11/10 01:53 PM

quote "The wilderness preparation purist in me would very much like a more robust knife... "unquote.

I just bought a Victorinox SAK, the one with the black quick opening blade. It has a corkscrew instead of the regular philips screwdriver. The blade locks and the saw is amazing. Check it out, you may find what you are looking for.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/12/10 12:29 AM

"The weakest part of the system is finding a stable platform for the fire cup implementation."

How about two flat strips of steel (~3/4" wide x 1/2" longer than the fire cup is wide), with a slot in the center of each to make an X, and four slots in the rim of the fire cup to accommodate the ends? Maybe a blob of solder near the end of each strip, to avoid shifting. Stores flat.

Sue
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/12/10 01:03 AM

I doubt that finding, or preparing a flat patch of ground will be much of a problem outside of steep alpine or Big Wall terrain, where you would probably be better off with a hanging stove.

If you really want to carry something "for the fire cup implementation" little tripod gizmos are available, intended to enhance stability for cartridge stoves, that probably could be adapted. I prefer the Neanderthal implementation mode - "Ogg take rock, make ground flat, implement fire cup."

I do a lot of things in Neanderthal mode......
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/12/10 01:18 AM

Thanks a lot for the replies.

Susan, I am confident your setup will work, but I don't like the idea of carrying it. I'm more along the lines of Hikermor's Neanderthal Mode. In the woods I would consider making a tripod from some sticks. It's always nice to have several options to the same effect.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/14/10 09:28 PM


and too many pots!!!!

years searching for just the right pot for a kit and i sort of went overboard--in the end i'm making just the right one---
Posted by: ironraven

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/14/10 09:37 PM

CD, you either need to set up a museum or a lending library. smile
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/14/10 10:25 PM

LOL - thanks for that.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/14/10 11:07 PM

What ETS needs is a SWAP MEET board!

Sue
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/22/10 01:53 PM

Well, I've hit a few dead ends. The process we want is called "deep drawing". You take a flat sheet of metal and stamp it into a cup shape. It seems in this undustry, a short run is "less than 60,000 pieces". Some companies have "standard" sizes, which means "we made it for somebody once". They don't stock anything, even for touchy-feely samples. Minimum lot sizes are huge.
Posted by: Compugeek

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/22/10 02:12 PM

Thseng:

Maybe they could be spun?

If you're not already familiar with it, "Spinning", or "Spin Forming" is forming a disk of metal over a mandrel on a lathe. It's difficult to describe, but once you see it, it makes sense.

The actual spinning starts in this Youtube video at about 2:33.

Do a search on "metal spinning". Maybe a spin former would be willing to do smaller quantities.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/22/10 03:59 PM

Bummer.
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/22/10 04:27 PM

Thanks for the suggestion. Spinning is a close cousin to deep drawing in the way a flat sheet is shaped into a container.

However, it only works for circular parts, and I think we're looking for rectangular.

Or perhaps I missed something and there's a demand for a circular cup that's not available already?
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/23/10 07:43 PM

You're correct, rectangular is what we are looking for.
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/23/10 08:31 PM

Thanks... But then re-reading the thread I noticed that there was an interest in a lid for the space-saver cup...
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 08:41 AM

Thanks for trying, Thseng! I was really hoping you could pull this off the ground.

Originally Posted By: thseng

However, it only works for circular parts, and I think we're looking for rectangular.


Yes smile

Originally Posted By: thseng
Or perhaps I missed something and there's a demand for a circular cup that's not available already?


I've been scouting for one piece (no seams) SS containers or container-like objects, and there's A LOT of cylindrical SS pots in all lengths and diameters available if you look for them. Particular if you think Dremel tools are fun.


Rectangular ones appear to be folded sheets of metal that are welded, stamped or soldered together. Call me paranoid, but I don't really want to heat that seam over a camp fire with my water inside.
Posted by: scafool

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 09:37 AM

Maybe something like the square ones here?
http://www.metalexportsindia.com/storage-containers.html
I don't know of any local sources for them offhand but I remember seeing them in some dollar stores.
The ones I saw were not very heavy gauge and I didn't think too kindly of the plastic lids but they were not really all that bad (I tend to be fussy).

Maybe if you check with a local discount store they could tell you the cost to source them for you.

Posted by: Compugeek

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 03:31 PM

Wups, yes, I'd overlooked that non-trivial detail. smile
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: scafool
Maybe something like the square ones here?
http://www.metalexportsindia.com/storage-containers.html
I don't know of any local sources for them offhand but I remember seeing them in some dollar stores.
The ones I saw were not very heavy gauge and I didn't think too kindly of the plastic lids but they were not really all that bad (I tend to be fussy).

Maybe if you check with a local discount store they could tell you the cost to source them for you.



They look pretty nice but . . . if you go back and read the thread, we are (or maybe just "I am") wanting something that opens on the end (i.e. the side with the smallest dimensions). Remember the old, metal band-aid boxes? Something like that (e.g., 3" by 5" by 1" to 4" by 6" by 1.5") without a seam down the side, without a rolled bottom, made from stainless steel, aluminum, or titanium (not tin), with a snug fitting lid, and a folding handle (that will fold along side the container so that the handle does not make the container bulky or awkward.

Essentially, I want this cup in a rectangular configuration (sized between 3" by 5" by 1" to 4" by 6" by 1.5") with a lid. This would, in my mind anyway, be the ideal container for a pocket kit. Maybe a little bulky for an EDC pocket kit, but certianly ideal for an outdoor activities pocket kit.

The reason I want it configured this way is so that I can use the container to boil water. The ones you linked to are flat and shallow and I fear I'd spill a lot more water than I'd ever boil (same reason I balk at the Altiods tin idea). And I think I'd tend to catch a lot of ashes in such a container as well.

I have the GSI Glacier cup that I linked to above; I use it as a kit container and it is awesome, but it will not fit in my pocket (and it has no lid), so I carry it in a pack. Well if I get separated from my pack . . .

Again, I realize that this container might never become a reality, but I'll keep wishing and looking.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 07:06 PM

This is like the quest for the Holy Grail (which we all surely recall, was a cup, also). Something that can be used to heat water, melt snow, etc. and that can be carried easily on one's person.

The closest item commonly available is the bandaid container and even that is a pretty big pocket load. It does have seams, etc. but one will bear up for occasional use. It also makes for a good container for other elements of a minimalist kit.

If you want something sturdier, I feel the best solution is a cup that fits around the bottom of a canteen. I generally use a Nalgene canteen or a soda bottle equivalent, containing both canteen and cup in a cloth bag that I can either stash inside or onto a pack. Alternatively, I can carry the assembly on my belt.

There are lots of options for a canteen-conforming cup, ranging from a coffee can cheapest, but with seams) to stainless steel cups (not expensive, but heavy) to titanium (lightest, but expensive). There are similar cups for the GI canteen.

Being an old desert rat, I am not going to leave my canteen behind. I can think of only one situation where it was even possible - just one SAR ops where the pilot would only take a passenger with what they had on their person - no backpacks allowed, and that was an exceptional and unusual circumstance.

I think the real hangup is something that will fit comfortably in a pocket, but will be large enough to boil water for that nice cup of tea. Pretty difficult to find, unless you look at folding cups, and they present a lot of problems when used for heating.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 10:15 PM

Great anology to the holy grail. Like I said, I do have the GSI stainless cup with an assembled kit in it but it will not fit in a pocket. I too have a similar sized titanium cup that is my primary backpacking pot. I have them because they are the best available.

Still I have a dream for the grail. smile
Posted by: T_Co

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/24/10 10:35 PM

No handles but HERE is a place with different size tins.

Or EvilBay for a variety of Band Aid tins
Posted by: JohnE

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 12:49 AM

It's pretty easy to make a lid for either a canteen or a nalgene type bottle cup.

Turn the bottle over, trace around the outside edge onto a piece of 1/2" plywood, cut out the traced shape, pick up a sheet of aluminum at your local hardware store/home center. Cut out a piece that will fit the traced outline with a small amount of overlap, use the plywood and a small hammer to bend the aluminum around the wood, voila you now have a lid. Go back to the hardware store and find a small D ring type picture hanger, use a pop rivet gun to install the hanger to the top of the lid, voila, you now have a lid with a handle.

You can also do this with a used sauce pan lid, usually found at thrift shops, Salvation Army stores, yard sales, just make sure it's big enough to fit your cup, remove the too large regular handle and do the pop rivet thing to it too.

The neatest setup I've seen uses a Molle type bottle pouch, a 32oz Nalgene, (2) of the GSI type cups, one on each end of the Nalgene, put the lid(s) in the pocket of the pouch along with a Esbit stove and you've got a nice, fully contained hot water kit for tea, coffee, etc.

Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 02:33 AM

"The closest item commonly available is the bandaid container..."

Actually, what seems the closest is a hip flask.

The shape is about right. Get the old Dremel out and cut off the top and come up with a lid of some kind.

Sue
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Susan
"The closest item commonly available is the bandaid container..."

Actually, what seems the closest is a hip flask.

The shape is about right. Get the old Dremel out and cut off the top and come up with a lid of some kind.

Sue


Yup. Done that - I cut away an old bottle just to enjoy a bit of dremeling. Works.

But all flasks I have seen have those wretched seams at the bottom ... I suppose they're fine for storing beverage, but I don't want to fuss with heating them. Soldering melts at pretty low temperature.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 04:07 PM

Thanks for doing the research thseng; the serch continues for the perfect pocket PSK container.

Mike
Posted by: thseng

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 04:12 PM

Well, I haven't given up yet, but it might be a while before I get a round-tuit.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/25/10 10:24 PM



hang in there folks,i'm working on a great pot-cup kit from the post at Woods Monkey.i thought i would wear the Swiss camo on this part of the project as it was a "survival" project.when this is done i'll make another with the parts pulled apart a bit for use as a hiking kit,there should be lots of room inside to hold stuff.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/26/10 01:58 AM

"But all flasks I have seen have those wretched seams at the bottom ... I suppose they're fine for storing beverage, but I don't want to fuss with heating them. Soldering melts at pretty low temperature."

Okay... what about casting something seamless?

Sue
Posted by: NeighborBill

Re: ...and a pot. - 02/27/10 12:57 PM

I was actually comtemplating casting one this morning...an awful lot of work for a one-off product. Useful if you really really want something custom, but I don't really care--I'm a USGI canteen & cup combo guy.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/15/10 09:22 PM

I've fond several kitchen coffee containers ( flour, sugar, coffee sets for the counter) that are a good size for a kit and come with lids - most about 1 quart or 15cm high.
Posted by: TANSTAF1

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/16/10 04:40 PM

For my BOB I have a SS cup that fits around my water filter bottle. It's a hybrid Sport Berkey. I just replaced the Nalgene bottle with a SS Kleen Kanteen bottle so in a pinch I can remove the filter and lid and use that to boil water. For my full backpack I have the GI cup and also other nestable pots and pans and for car camping there is also my Dutch oven which has to be the greatest thing ever if you don't have to lug it far.

However, like many of you I am seeking something collapsible , really small and light weight better for my on body kit (OBK?).

Right now I have a piece of very heavy duty aluminum foil from a very old air force survival kit which seemingly was designed to be able to be folded and then unfolded and used to boil water and then refolded - but I confess I have not tried it. I am concerned that it will spring a leak and AFAIK there is no way to patch it in the field.

As a kid (a very long time ago) I had a collapsible aluminum cup that was a series of ever smaller rings of aluminum that fit together and held water fairly well (at least it did according to my now failing memory). But even if i could now find something like it, I doubt it could be used for heating as the rings would expand at different rates and in any case is larger than what I am seeking.

But I was looking at the collapsible silicone cups. They say they cannot be used on direct flame, but I was wondering if they could be used inside a aluminum foil shield which would then not need to be water tight. But since silicone is used for pot holders, I am wondering if heat would transfer to the water.

If not slicone, what else might work within a aluminum foil wrapper? (I know it's possible to boil water in just a paper bag.)

Posted by: xbanker

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/19/10 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: TANSTAF1
I am concerned that it will spring a leak and AFAIK there is no way to patch it in the field.

I keep meaning to try -- as a workable in-a-pinch patch -- high-temperature aluminum foil tape ( here). Might even work to apply to bottom of improvised container before cooking use to protect/reinforce against puncture. A one-foot length, wrapped around a soda straw, would weigh next to nothing and take little room in a kit.

According to data sheet, flame resistant and performance range "to over 600F." Uses clear silicone adhesive. I wouldn't want to have a meal of the adhesive, but seems like the miniscule amount that might be released through pinhole or small tear repair in improvised foil cooking container could be tolerated, particularly in an emergency situation.

The data sheet does say that "adhesive does gradually thermoset in high temperatures [and] as it thermosets the adhesive mass becomes firm ... but will continue to hold the tape in place."

I'm no chemist or engineer. Wonder if this means even less would migrate into improvised foil cooking container?

Edit: Just noticed price/quantity on link I provided. Here's more reasonable source.
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/19/10 03:24 AM

cigar hip flask...I'm not a cigar smoker so not sure if I have the correct name, but I've seen an aluminum or stainless hip container for 3 cigars that may be close to the desired size, and not sure of the amount of open space between the tubes...regards
Posted by: TANSTAF1

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/19/10 04:47 PM

Thanks for the info on the high temperature aluminum foil tape. That just might work. Maybe I'll give it a try. If the hole in the aluminum is small, I'm thinking putting the tape on the outside - that way the adhesive would just be thru a small hole whereas if you put it on the inside some could seep along all the edges.

I was also thinking about putting water in a plastic oven bag inside a (leaky) aluminum foil container or even just on top of a sheet to heat up over a fire - the aluminum would shield the plastic from direct flame. The question I have is although oven bags are designed to be used in microwaves would heating the bag cause chemicals to leach into the water?
Posted by: xbanker

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/19/10 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: TANSTAF1
I was also thinking about putting water in a plastic oven bag inside a (leaky) aluminum foil container or even just on top of a sheet to heat up over a fire - the aluminum would shield the plastic from direct flame. The question I have is although oven bags are designed to be used in microwaves would heating the bag cause chemicals to leach into the water?

Reynolds used to have aluminum foil cooking bags among their products. My sketchy memory thinks they were rated around 400F and, necessarily, fairly heavy-duty foil But believe I've read they discontinued the product line (and couldn't find any sources online). Probably competing products out there. If plastic bag could be made workable, as you suggest, then foil cooking bag should do even better.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 08/21/10 11:18 PM

Hey,

I used that aluminum foil tape (I think it was muffler repair tape?) to strengthen a container made from an aluminum mini-loaf pan. I never tested it over a fire but boiled water in it on an electric stove. It was fragile but it did work. This small, light "pot" was then used as the liner for a Lock & Lock plastic container, which held one version of my PSK.

Mike
Posted by: Frisket

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/07/10 03:31 AM

I personally do not use anything not made to cook in to...well cook in. A lot of metal cans and such have either paints or liners to prevent rust or advertise whats in them as well. Even some metal water bottles have liners sprayed into them so yeah they cant be trusted either.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/07/10 03:04 PM

Good point - but a camping pot would work as a container for a survival kit
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/17/10 01:17 PM

I've been looking and seems like a Klean Kanteen (widemouth, 18 oz) might be the best thing I've seen. It is stainless with a plastic lid. Most of the stainless bottles I've seen have a piece of plastic pressed onto the bottle opening with the threads cut into the plastic. Try cooking in these and your threads melt. The Klean Kanteen has the threads cut into the metal.

Definately not a pocket kit but I think I could assemble a "kit in a bottle" that has some high quality gear and a container that doubles as cooking pot and then carry it in my pack.

Still looking for that pocket kit container though.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/17/10 01:42 PM

Hey Miner, we think alike.

I cut the top off a 500ml thin-walled stainless steel bottle, put a wire bail on it and used the container to hold the Shelter Component in my Winter PSK.

Pictures of the kit and use in the field can be found in this post from last winter.

The thin metal was hot and a little sharp against my mouth but it worked OK. I would rather have a rectangular shaped tall pot as it would be flatter in my pocket, but this cylinder shape is useable because it is fairly small in diameter.

Still searching for the perfect PSK container.

Mike
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/17/10 02:21 PM

My best idea is to carry a pocket kit and a metal water bottle.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/18/10 04:17 AM

Teacher,

I'm with ya, just have not found a pocket kit container that is optimal.
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/18/10 04:19 AM

Is the Kleen Kanteen single or double wall? Their website doesn't mention either.

Sue
Posted by: rebwa

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/18/10 02:06 PM

Susan,

When I purchased my Kleen Kanteen, last year, they came in both single and double walled. I went with the single wall, so I could in an emergency boil water in it. Since then I also purchased one of the guyot stainless bottles, that also can stand-up to a fire. I like several things about the guyot bottle better. Wholesale sports in Lacey carries the guyot.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/19/10 06:33 AM

A couple or three stores around here carry Klean Kanteen and they have both the single walled and double walled. I like the single walled for my purposes but no one around here has the 18 oz size I covet. I need to get online and get one ordered but maybe I better visit the Guyot site first. Any chance of getting some elaboration on the advantages of the Guyot design? Thanks
Posted by: rebwa

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/20/10 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: miner
A couple or three stores around here carry Klean Kanteen and they have both the single walled and double walled. I like the single walled for my purposes but no one around here has the 18 oz size I covet. I need to get online and get one ordered but maybe I better visit the Guyot site first. Any chance of getting some elaboration on the advantages of the Guyot design? Thanks


First off the Guyot is 32 oz which is the exact size for the Katadyn Mircropur tabs that I carry, I don't think the Klean Kanteen makes a one litter bottle. Also the Guyot just feels more substantial to me and I really like the cordage system on the bottle for securing it to gear. Both are really nice bottles, for me the Guyot just fits my system better.
Posted by: miner

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/21/10 05:01 AM

Thanks rebwa,

I found the 18 oz Klean Kanteen locally tonight so I bought it. I think it is the exact size I want for my kit. Also fairly light weight. I guess if I switch to a stainless water bottle, I'll look closer at the Guyot.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/22/10 08:09 PM

Here's what I am trying:

Counter top coffee tin ( w lid)
steel water bottle
cookie tins
metal cup/ big mug
Posted by: Susan

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/25/10 04:28 AM

Thanks for the tip, Rebwa! I'll check it out when I'm in that area.

Sue
Posted by: Russ

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/26/10 10:38 PM

If I get a choice, titanium will always get a nod from me because it does not react to food and will not pass on a metallic taste. . . however, it doesn't heat food efficiently and water takes longer to boil. I have a Ti French Press and would love to make it more efficient at boiling water. Would a copper bottom such as on Revere Ware help a titanium pot. Thoughts?

Posted by: hikermor

Re: ...and a pot. - 09/27/10 12:29 AM

The whole point of titanium is toughness combined with light weight, for a hellacious price. From that standpoint I would not want to add copper to the utensil. Your statement that water takes longer to boil in a titanium vessel surprises me a bit. I have not noticed noticeably longer boiling times in using my titanium vessels (two), both of which I typically use with somewhat less robust heat sources - Esbit tabs or alcohol rather than a canister or white gas stove.

I can understand that titanium has inherently less heat conductivity that stainless steel or aluminum, but it is typically fabricated in thin gauge material, the better to attract gram counting weight weenies like myself.

My preference for the perfect billy can would be an aluminum container that would nest over a nalgene/gatorade bottle. This would as light as titanium, much cheaper, and functionally as durable, albeit somewhat more prone to denting. Stainless steel is needlessly heavy for most backpacking/climbing applications, but is great where weight is not an important consideration.

I have used aluminum cook sets a lot and I did manage to induce pitting in one pot that rendered it useless. It only took thirty-five years of fairly constant use.

My very favorite cook set is a surplus U S Army Mountain cook set, dated 1951. Two aluminum four liter pots, with a closely fitting stainless steel fry pan/lid. Its only failing is that it is simply too large for most of the trips I do these days. It hasn't pitted yet.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: ...and a pot. - 10/09/10 05:36 PM

Moving over to Kleen Kanteens or similar -- I like to have the boil water option.
Posted by: handle

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/15/10 04:51 PM

I use a 1 gal Aluminum pot and lid. The lid can be used as a skillet. The pot is big enough to cook a rabbit, if he's cut up enough to make it feasible to boil-stew him in the first place. I am aware that long term use of AL may well be a health hazard. If shtf, this will be far from the top of my list of worries, tho. Until then, the use is sparse, so I don't worry about it.
Posted by: comms

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/22/10 05:17 AM

Okay, I'll confess. I bought a Jet Boil Flash for a week long trip to California this week. You never know how big the coffee pot will be in the resorts & hotels we are staying at to heat water. Plus it has an insulated mug. Plus it was good for car carry. Plus...well, ya know. Its a new Shiny Thing.
Posted by: dweste

Re: ...and a pot. - 11/22/10 06:36 AM

Atone, then enjoy!
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: ...and a pot. - 12/30/11 12:45 AM

Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
this is a subject that has driven me nuts for years.a metal container for the kit that can be used to heat water and cook in.
i have looked around for one that would fit my overboard vests survival kit and the best i could come up with was the Swiss Army canteens cup with a wire bale added.i'll be spending the winter looking for something with a tight fitting lid rather than the foil,duct tape and overlapping zip locks i'm using now



It's taken some time but, thanks to a bump from the "emergency cook pot" thread I'm revisiting this thread.

Canoedogs, you've just made me decide to add bailing wire to my SS cup and the tin cans I carry for emergency boiling and cooking. I prefer to be hang to hang my vessel over the fire, in addition to setting it beside it.

Thanks!