McGyvering something

I need something that is similar to a tanto blade but as thick as a chisel

I have seen Razels ..etc. but really don't want to pay that kind of money. I thought if there is anything very close in hardware stores, and I work hard to finish it the way I like it, that would suit me well.

Chisels are close, chisel tip is there ( althought it is at 90 degrees ), the side can be sharpened into a blade, but there is a two inch part between the handle and "blade" that can't be used or shapened. Actually I need this tool to be as short as possible ( blade no more than 3 inches. )

If I start with a knife, the blade is there and I can cut it to 3 inches and 45 degrees (tanto style) but then the blade is not thick enough for chiseling and prying. Some painters scraping knives are the right size and only need sharpening, but they are not thick enough.

Cutting and sharpening a cleaver will do the trick
But that is waaay beyond me and my small DIY workshop

I am not looking for expensive stuff. I need something cheap and rough to use around the home & garage.

Any ideas ?

Try one of these:

EOD Tool

EOD Tool Mod

There is also the CRKT MAK and the Boker COP Tool you may want to consider.

Pete

Hmm, Cold Steel makes a recon Tanto that is pretty thick and tough. But I like the EOD tool Pete identified above.

I'll second the Boker Cop Tool. The size fits your spec and the price is right. Great value for the money. Needs to be sharpened-up a bit when its new out of the box.

The question is, what are you really going to use it for?

If I understand correctly you're looking for a multipurpose tool. But what exactly shoiuld it be capable of doing, how well, what are the main priorities?

My old-style Recon Tanto is tough as nails. The new ones don't seem to be quite as tough. Maybe get a thick meat cleaver and grind it down?

Get an old Mill-Bastard file or piece of leaf spring and spend the day communing with your bench grinder. Make sure to keep the piece cooled with oil or water unless you plan on heat treating later.

Look up 'knife making' supplies using your favorite search engine. Get an appropriate blank that closest matches your dimensional and metallurgical requirements and either grind it yourself or have a someone who does such work do it for you.

There are some custom knife makers who accept work in the form of drawings and specifications. They may consent to using a blank you provide, or not. They can often help determine what you want and offer suggestions on relatively arcane subjects like selection of the steel, heat treating and grind angles. But their expertise and skills seldom come cheap.

If you know what you want you may be able to save money by finding a more generalized metal working shop.

If you are determined a thick blank can be ground on bench stones by hand. It really doesn't take that much effort if you use really course stones to rough the shape and work your way to finer stones. I have also seen bench tools like sanding discs and bench grinders used. More than one home smith has used a belt sander. Power tools save time and effort but they also make temperature control more critical.

Thanks guys

I will be useing it for anything you can imagine from prying, splitting wood, cutting, scraping ..etc. A few days ago I used a knife to pry open a can of paint and the knife was "painted" and I didn't have near me anything to wipe it with. So, this tool will be there to do all the dirty work instead of my pocket knife.

Also I need onething in my life that I don't have to "be careful with". In this stressful life, we have to be careful about everything from people's feelings to the tip of a pocket knife. It's nice to feel relaxed with one tool that you can use and abuse with no consequences.

( sounds too phylosophical but it's true )

The EDO tool is the closest thing to what I need although I prefer the chisel head to be at soemthing like 70 degrees not 90. Problem is that Countycomm doesnt sell outside the U.S.

( I am not in the U.S. and I was thinking about starting a business after retirement and wonder if countycomm ..etc. will agree to having international distributers! ).

Anyway, my original thought was about McGyvering something.
I just remebered a friend who did some metal work for a project we were doing and maybe I'll talk to him and see whet he suggests. Maybe I can get a small blank from him (cheap or free) or get advice where to find a good machinist

OTOH, a long thick machete maybe narrow enough to convince me to do it myself. Advanatge over the EOD tool is that it will have a decent wooden handle. If I find one within $15, and it is no more than 2 inch wide, I will cut the length down to 3-4 inch long at about 70 degrees, and sharpen the front into a chisel edge.

Before starting my adventure , let me ask you guys about chisel-type knives you have used. I have looked at this Razel



You notice that the front edge is tilted reverse-tanto style.
I wonder if it is ergonomically correct and is the use for scraping and prying as easy as when you have it the other way (tanto style) ?

This folder too
I wonder if there is a wisdom behind this ?

Scraping stuff with the Razel works just fine. The “reverse-tanto” front edge just makes it so you pitch the knife forward a few degrees while scraping.

Ergonomics will depend more upon what direction you are scraping, which hand you are using, body/arm/hand position, etc. The knife, itself, works just fine.

Also, the blade stock is thick enough to do some pretty good prying as long as you make sure to stay off the edge when exerting force on things.

Here is a YouTube review of that knife if you want a closer look at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAHk-zxiVf4.

Hacking Knife?

http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/departments/tools-shop/hand-tools/28163.aspx?feature=product_81

How about the Mora Craftline Chisel knife?

http://www.ragweedforge.com/11398.jpg
http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html

Just a few observations: most knives are not made for heavy prying. The ones that are tend to be very poor cutters. If the knife is sturdy enough to be used as a prybar the blade/point might be too thick to wedge it between something like a doorframe for instance.

A real prybar is never fully straight. The tip at least is usually at a slight angle. That's important because it gives you some leverage that a completely straight tool cannot. Also very helpful for getting into tight spaces and such.

Modifying a machete would not be a good idea. A typical machete is very thin and springy. Even if you cut it down it will flex too much when prying. If the blade doesn't break the handle scales will. On the other hand, a sturdy billhook or Woodman's Pal might work, very versatile, but it is a pretty large tool.

Then the question of material. The Boker Cop Tool for instance is made of 440C. As a rule, stainless steels are unsuitable for prying tools because they are too brittle and lack the necessary toughness.

All in all, I wonder whether it wouldn't make more sense to get several smaller-sized tools that would cover all your needs much more reliably (small prybar, chisel, maybe a large flat-head screwdriver... I reckon you probably EDC a good folder and/or multitool already). It would be a more reliable option, maybe even cheaper. If I had to pick just one alla-round tool though it would be the hacking knife (check out Corpsman's link).

Many good points , thank you guys

OK starting from the bottom up.
Tom, I have all the tools I need: screwdrivers, knives, ..etc. but a tough and rough tool is always good to have around. I always wished I had one to hammer, chisel, pry and cut or chop something. When you are busy, I mean real busy, it isn't always convenient to go look for something to do this or that. You need a do-it-all tool in your belt for that one-second step to finish the job. I know this because I broke a multitool trying to pry something although I had a 3 ft prybar in my garage.

The hacking knife is very good and worth looking into. The chisel edge can be modified to have an angle.

Back to the Razel
The video has shown me why it is designed with the lower tip more forard than the upper tip ( reverse Tanto ). It makes the lower tip better at cutting boxes. However, I am still not sure that it is ergonomic enough to hold it straight and scrape with it unless you hold it upside down like in the film. Only in that way will the angle of the front edge be suitable for scraping.

That means I should look for a symmetrical handle, not like the one on the Razel. That way the blade can be held right side up or upside down depending on what tip is needed. The handle of most others ( like the hacking knife are symmetrical enough on both sides.

About machetes, I never thought they are soft and springy. Maybe I am not that familar with them. I only concentrated on thickness and making a machete more sturdy by cutting most of the length of its blade.

Comparing thicknesses, the hack knife is 0.25 inches while others are at about 0.075 inches average. That is a big difference.

Oh, one thing I noticed in the Razel video
On the back , the half of the spine that is nearer to the handle , there are some kind of serrations or something. What are these for ? If a Razel is that thick I don't think that was a saw on the back , was it ?

If you want something from CountyComm, I'd be happy to buy it and ship it to you on your dime. If it's legal to import wherever you live and it's worth it to you to pay for the shipping.

Let me know.

Thanks John, so kind of you

I started this thread trying to make something myself which I thought was relatively easy and a bit of fun.

I am drooling over your offer. However, sharps are always risky to import. You never know. I have checked around camping forums where I live and I got mixed responses . Some have bought knives and camping stoves from other countries without any problem, and some lost their goodies. IIRC the last one I read about lost a custom knife from the U.S. (ouch!)

However, you will not be let off the hook ! I am going to look into it what I can buy other than sharps and will investigate a local mail forawding company (rates ..etc. ) and will see if it is easier . Right now at this moment I don't even know how to pay you since i have cancelled my U.S bank account a few years back.

I'll look into it and meanwhile many many thanks to you .

Gold doubloons have a nice look...We'll figure something out.

Where are you located?

I can relate to that though I've grown to realize over time that it pays to use the right tool for the job. I understand a universal do-it-all tool may be handy in some situations, maybe even reasonably effective under specific circumstances but it will always be a compromise.

IMHO you would do well to avoid the Razel. It looks way too gimmicky and I have doubts about the handle surviving any heavy prying. The hacking knife or the EOD tool are two simple alternatives, can be modified easily and would probably work for your purposes.

If you have access to a bench and/or angle grinder, maybe a drill press, you could make exactly what you need yourself.
Any suitable stock of carbon steel at least 1/4"-5mm and properly heat treated should be ok. Do NOT attempt to modify a file - they tend to be very hard and barely tempered at all so a file will surely break if subjected to any lateral pressure. Also, the teeth tend to be so hard they will take a heavy toll on whatever grinding tools you're using in short order. A short bill hook or similar pruning tool would be a better choice, tempered a bit softer and shouldn't be to difficult to modify. If all else fails, a section of a leaf spring is easy to find, it's already tempered just right. Of course, you will need to cool the steel while working so as not to ruin the temper. If you have the means and knowledge to do your own heat treating then so much the better.

Anyway, just my 2 cents from an amateur jack-of-all-trades and part-time bladesmith. Good luck whichever option you pick eventually.

Better than a bench grinder for making blades is a belt sander. Even a portable model clamped in a vise will work

I think my question has been forgotten or maybe not noticed




Looks like a saw but , well, is just too thick for a saw. Is there any other uses for a saw-like spine ?

Drop the saw spine. Most likely, the saw will be a very poor saw - and it will interfere with what else you actually use the knife for.


Saw spines are just for looking cool, IMO. And it interferes with other functionality of the knife (or knife-looking tool). Such as batoning. A saw will be a pain in the neck if you want to hold or support the knife partially on the spine, such as when scraping or doing some delicate tasks.


The original rambo knife claimed the saw also was wire breakers (insert the wire into the notch, bend it back and forth as fast and hard as you can, and you can snap the wire at the bend). Don't know if it works. If you really think this is important ONE notch should do the trick...


What you could add to the spine is a "belt cutter" or a "gut opener" hook. Take a look at the cop tool for inspiration. That's really handy for cutting strings, box wrappings, ropes and basically all things that can snag on a "gut hook". And because the edge is protected inside the loop you can abuse the knife/tool as much as you like (prying, whatever) without damaging that edge.

Aside from a sawback being useless for most purposes you have to keep in mind that any deep, sharp serrations or sawteeth create weak points where the blade is liable to snap when stressed heavily.

Agreed

Another reason i have to stay away from the Razel and focus on making one myself using the model of hack knife and EOD tool.

DIYing it is the way to go
Lets hope I don't lose a finger or something LOL

Of course, you COULD go with any of the original custom Razel knives, and get what you want...

(at a slightly higher price)