LONG TERM BOV

Google says this is a school bus.

I say it is a LONG-TERM BOV.





When we think of BOVs , we think of jeeps with loaded trailers, or fully loaded 4x4 pickups racing out of a city that is hit by a tornado or whatevr. However imagine a city hit by civil unrest and your home is damaged/burnt or it isnt safe anyomre to return, and you estimate two to three months of nomadic life.

I wish to have a bus like this one and remove some of its seats to put a few cupboards and a bed or two. Either remove seats on the right side or the last two rows for example, and convert it in a reasonable "home" along with one or two tents.

Dual wheels in the back are an asset for better traction. The vehicle is already meant to run with a heavy laod. Even the flashing lights might come handy if visibility is poor while driving.

What do you think ???

I had not given it a thought before, but most of the short yellow school busses have heavy duty wheelchair lifts installed aft.

I could DEFINITELY use such a vehicle as a BOV!!!! I'm going to check out the possibilities, Thanks !!!!!

A couple issues:

Dual wheels actually give less traction, espically when off paved roads.

By the time a school bus is for sale to the public its had many many miles on it and needs quite a bit of maintenance.

The flashing lights are disabled and painted over because of legal reasons.

School buses are slow moving, not very manuverable, inefficient and get stuck easily so while they have a lot of room they have a lot of disadvantages as well.

You can live out of conversion vans or a truck camper or a camping trailer as well.

Another issue I see if the daily driver vs. BOV parked in your back yard. I see a lot of people drive the little economy car to work every day with a nice loaded up and ready to go BOV parked at their house. What happens if something happens between your work and home and you have to go the other direction, you have now lost access to your BOV. you also don't want to be driving something like that to work every day. A jeep ir truck can be driven to work daily so your gear is with you.

They have something very similar around, called a motorhome. Already equipped for living, lots of storage space, and used ones can be had for a song, at least in some parts of the country. When we bought our current home on wheels, we sold our '95 Winnebago 24 ft Class A, with only 35,000 miles, almost new tires, a brand new set of snow chains, plus other goodies, for $8000, and were glad to get it. For those of you with pickups, trailers (either fifth wheels of tongue draggers) can be had for even less...

Wildman I am glad found the idea useful.

Eugene you have very good points.

When I thought of a bus, I was thinking of the lighter weight compared to a real motor home. Inside it there is nothing but seats. You remove half of them and make space in which you can throw BOBs, duffle bags , backpacks, several 5-gallon water containers ..etc. You dont have to worry about much mainetence for plumbing ..etc. You can even spread your sleeping bag inside it.

Re: traction.
Two wheels will spin because their ratio of floatation (upward) is more than what you need to balance the vehicle weight. However when you toss in two loaded BOBs, several 5-gallon water containers, camping gear, two ice chests, enough food for a month, and a heavy toolbox. not to mention tents ..etc. on the roof rack, you get the picture. With that load you will be happy you had duals.

Re: Idle BOV syndrome
Dedicated BOVs standing idle all the time have this problem whether they are a school bus or an old pre-electronics-saved-for-TEOTWAWKI truck . And I dont have an answer for that possibility. However. Many families are facing this delimmas anyway !!!! Many of them do have a small economy car and a larger family car. ALL these folks will have to make a decision and will most likely try hard to get to their larger vehicle for bugging out. They may have to come back home anyway to lock it, fortify it, or take their important documents , or just to take the dog.

Re: BOV economics
I understand that there is a negative economic side to it , where you pay for the vehicle and just sits there until the big one. But that doesnt have to be the case. You can use it for camping and fishing trips or even in weekend trips where you want to buy supplies in bulk. No one will compalin if you drive it to the mall or lumber yard.


Re: pickups
One advatage it has over a pickup is that if it is raining or snowing ..etc. you can just sleep in it. Or you keep driving while mom and the kids sleep on the bags and backpacks. You dont have that option with a truck which doesnt have the space for a couple and a few kids (and a dog) anyway.


OBG
Motorhomes are great and even psychologically suitable for survival situations since they remind us of "HOME". However, motorhomes are heavier than a half-emptied bus. That translates to higher gas consumption.

In addition, I was thinking on the simpler side. A bus with half of the seats removed is a utility vehicle that is half equipped to transport family members and half vacant space in which you dump your survival gear. Nothing more. No extra weight and no complications. I have looked at it as a mobile "base camp" to use for camping trips as well as a BOV.

"...However, motorhomes are heavier than a half-emptied bus. That translates to higher gas consumption..."

There is no doubt about that. The up side is that you don't have to throw in those tents, ice chests, five gal water jugs, sleeping bags, stoves, etc, all of that stuff is already installed and ready to go. But to each his own...

OK, we can be flexible here and may look at other types of busses of the same size.

OBG

I think a survival situation or a bugout situation is different from a leisure trip. A survival situation is very fluid. One day you may need to pickup 5 relatives whose car has broken down, and the other day you may need to haul bulk supplies from your home to your retreat. Motorhomes are not very flexible and you cannot (easily) remove its components to make space for this purpose or that.

Yes they are more comfortable and home-like , but less practical in a survival situation.

IMHO

Actaully a bus is heaver than the same size motorhome body, its all the inside gear which makes the motorhome heavy. Motorhome bodies are usually made from thin wood cvered in thin sheets of aluminum while a bus is made of solid steel. If you have ever seen either in a wreck, a motorhome withn explode into toothpicks and a bus will dent up a little and keep on going. Buses are heavy even before you load them with gear.

Traction: Dual wheels are there to spread the weight across two tires instead of one. Once your off pavement or in snow/mud/whatever on top of the pavement this wonrk against you because you want to sink in through whatever is on top of the pavement or sink in enough to get a bite. Dual wheels tend to float higher than a single wheel. Also dual wheels tend to get crap stuck between them. Look at any of the off road forums, or other off road vehicles like earthroamer, they swap dual for single wheels. We have pulled plenty of school buses out of snow with our old Massey Ferguson tractor.

as far as the decidated vehicle, I was making the point that with a better vehicle then you could have it either dedicated or drive it to work, with a bus you really can't drive it to work.
Most pickups today are extended or 4 door cabs so you can haul the family with you and still have room in the back to sleep. Then if you want you can either carry a truck camper or pull a camper trailer and get the same advantages as a motorhome with out the disadvantages.

Even if you don't dedicate that bus and use it on the weekends your still getting hit in the wallett. You have to pay for license, taxes, and insurance on it. You have to maintenance it, oil changes, tires, batteries, etc. vehicles which only get driven once a week start to have problems after a while. You battery doesn't last as long, the fluids absorb moisture and need changed sooner, the metal parts rust faster.

I looked at this route a couple years ago, we had the 30mpg car and a 4x4 truck sitting at home. then the airplanes flew into buildings in NY and my wife's work was evacuated since it was a tall building. We had what little bit we could fit in the car and I had to take a couple detours to get it into downtown to get her. My rusty old BOV was sitting safely at home and I could have used it a couple times to jump a curb the car couldn't. Lucky for us nothing major happened that day outside of the 4 planes but if somehting would have happened in out city then we might not have made it home to get our supplies.
I went more middle road this time, instaed of a 5mpg military truck or bus or RV rusting away at home and a tiny econocoffin to go to work I went for a 20mpg 4x4 extended cab truck. I can carry my whole family and them some in the cab along with all kinds of gear. Then I can toss more gear that is prestaged in the garage in the back and sleep in my camper on the back if needed. So I'm always partially ready for anything and I save $ on insurance and don't have to maintain and extra vehicle.
If your wanting something more like a bus then look at one of the class B motorhomes from a company like roadtrek. Then take a full size van which you see the van front in that picture of the small bus) and build an RV body on it instead of a bus body. You can get them empty or order them to your spec. There are retired people who live full time in those.

Well, any bus you buy your still going to get it worn out, you just don't fund unused buses, they are bought to be used.

Which brings up another memory: many people who go to the big NASCAR races will rent a Ryder 1 ton box tuck and set up camp in it during the races. It seems to work well for the annual racing event that they attend for usually a week. They do take a smaller vehicle to get around locally.

I knew a guy who went in with some others and bought an old bus and fixed it up for tailgate parties.

I'm actually thinking of using a box trailer as a camping trailer. I have my truck now with a tall cap on the back setup like a minimal truck camper so I have shelter and all my gear in it at all times but then I could also pull a small box trailer which could be more shelter and carry a 4 wheeler or pair of motorcycles or something.

BOV is something I have put a lot of thought and planning into since I'm living in the city, there isn't much for me to stay for. So I'll bug out my my parents farm if anything happens. Now if I had a few acres myself then sheltering in place would be an option.

And when they are sold, they are beat to death. A couple of friends and some of thier renfaire group bought a used school bus for about $500, to be turned into a "crew bus"- think what we're looking here but with a bunch of swords and costuming around to.

It started once, so they could get it home. AFAIK, the engine and tranny are going to take a lot more than $500 to fix, and when they stripped the inside to add insulation there was huge holes of body rot.

Not things I'd want to worry about. And besides, school buses are COLD in the winter.

"...from your home to your retreat..."

Yup. But I would consider the RV as my retreat, all I have to do is park it where I want to stay, and that is it. As far as picking up others, that I can do with no problem. Different strokes...

I think that's a pretty intersting idea. However, like any other decision, the answer to whether it would make a good BOV is, it depends.

Off the top of my head, I can see quite a few pros and cons

Pros -
Large capacity
Heavy (if your dream of ramming other vehicles becomes reality, more weight is better)
Non-threatening looking
Good visibility (for passengers)

Cons
Heavy
Poor manuverability
Poor gas milage
Too open (no privacy for passengers
Top heavy, if in high winds
low ground clearance

Look at it from a design perpective, a school bus has been optimized for one thing, moving large numbers of passengers in relative comfort, over well maintained roads for short distances. I actually think in that respect, it might be a really good BOV, that would satisfy most peoples needs in reality. Though most people prefer to think that their needs would require them to blaze a trail in a large 4x4 to some mountain retreat, it seems a majority of people just sit on a highway in traffic. Although I do think ground cleareance could be an issue in this type of vehicle. I have taken a lot of regular cars on unexpected "off-highway" excursions, and usually ground clearance and approach angles will stop you long before lack of traction will. There are always chains to improve traction, but nothing you can do if you're high-centered on an obstacle. As for the dual wheels, that could be a plus or minus. Single wheels might be better in situations where a tire can dig into a layer with better traction, but if in sand or deep snow, dual wheels will allow you to "float" on top of it without sinking in.

From your description, you mention using it as a semi-long term living quarters. As other people already mentioned, there vehicles that have already been specifically designed for that purpose, and have undergone many iterations and millions of man-hours of road testing to optimize it as such, so it doesn't make sense to re-invent the wheel.

But rather than scrapping the idea, you have to think of where this vehicle might become useful. If you have a very, very large family, or group of friends, then this could become very useful. As far as using it to move things, I see one major drawback, access to the inside is limited. A small moving van (like u-haul or something) converted with a couple rows of seats might be easier than trying to add doors to this.

As far as find a usable bus in decent condition, I really don't think that's much of a problem. I assume most buses or government vehicles like this would have a regular mechanics that constantly maintain it, so you are just as likely to find a decent bus as you are any other vehicle or similar age. It might even be better, because you can almost assume it's lived a relatively docile life, no street racing, no off-roading, etc. Of course, if you buy a $500 bus, you can expect to get a $500 vehicle, doesn't matter whether it's a bus, a car, or a truck.

Thank for those comments/observations.

My thoughts are:
1) This would be a poor investment because of the associated costs of maintenance and insurance vs. practical daily/monthly use. The costs of operating when used.

2) Such a conversion (taking out approx 1/2 of the seats) and loading it up with people and gear could be achieved quickly.

3) Every USA location has school busses.
A) Know where the local school bus "Motor Pool" (if your state uses public owned busses) so that a bus could be "appropriated" if TSHTF.
B) If your state uses privately owned (Louisiana for 1) school busses that are chartered, get to know one of those owner/operators and work out an agreement to make use of the bus if TSHTF. Knowledge of a safe location to Bug Out to, equipment, situational and survival knowledge, etc, can be exchanged for the use of the bus, aka: teamwork.

4) This would make the use of a bus as a BOV, a more practical option.

Great ideas and hints from great minds.
I should disagree with you even more to pick your brains . (whink)

I still cant think of a motorhome as a BOV.
The moving van idea seems more logical. Are there any specific van models that come with two rows of seats and large open space in the rear ??

Not that I know of BUT,,,,

I have been seeing more of the camper trailers with the "garage" in the rear. The "garage" door is the aft bulkhead, hinged on the bottom, so that it opens up and becomes the entrance ramp.

Having that with a 4 door truck to tow it may be the most practical solution. Then the school bus option is still remaining as a backup plan.

Maybe this will do better:
15 passenger van with wheelchair lift

It can be fitted with a roof rack, a second fuel tank and a few extra lights.

Problem with this type oif vehicle is space under the hood is very limited. A second battery will be great especially if you add a few extra lights for camping or rescue.





It is even longer than the bus but the ground clearance looks better. Also, dual conversions are available for rear wheels if necessary (I like dual wheels for many reasons other than traction, you have instant spares if one tire goes flat).

I already own a full sized Dodge Ram van with the hightop and the wheelchair lift.

Once the chair has been loaded, there is considerably less storage space left. This chair weighs approx 250 LBS and takes up a space of 36" deep x 32" wide.

My current plans are to:

A) Use the van for people and cargo.

B) Use my 4 door Dodge Dakota to carry more cargo and be used as a "point" vehicle if Bugging Out became necessary.

C) My daughter's car would be used as a "Tail end Charlie".

There is still insufficient cargo space AND all of my vehicles have electronic ignition systems, which is a serious flaw in my plans.

I need to procure a box trailer.

How about removing a seat or two from the van ??
That should make more space for gear ?
But I guess it will depend on the size of your family !!

I think a box trailer is great, but that brings us again to the idle BOV syndrome or BOV economics.

Not nearly as bad though, because there is no engine and transmission to maintain with a trailer and the licensing and insurance will be much less than a whole nother vehilce.

Depends on the van and bus. most buses are much longer than your original picture and most vans are not that long.

If your wanting a something to live out of then pick a cargo van to start with, that way you don't have to remove any seats since its already empty and doesn't have all the windows that you would need to cover. It will be somewhat stealthy too since a van that looks like it belongs to a plumber or electrician or phone company will probably not have any useful supplies in it.

Dual wheels don't give better traction, they give wider weight distribution. They are fine for pavement but if you need to detour off the pavement for some reason, even if just to make a U turn in the highway then your going to get stuck as they tend to float on top of the grass/dirt/mud/snow and can't dig in to get any traction. Also if your carrying a heavy enough load to need dual wheels then you don't get an instant spare if one goes flat because the remaining wheel can't carry the load by itsself so you still need to pull off and change the tire. And then the inner one is a pain to change and you have the hassel of keeping pressure balanced between the two plus the extra wear becaus on a turn the inner and outer wheels have a slightly different turning radius, thats also part of their off pavement problems too, since they are kind of slipping a little when turning its easy to break traction. Go over to some RV forums and look at the debates between dual and single wheels for people pulling large trailers or hauling large campers. They always try to get by with single wheels rather than dual so they won't loose traction when parking at the campground and once one of them has to go to duals to carry their road weight they get very limited as to where they can park and usually have to have a dry level campground as the duals can't get them up hills off pavement.

I feel more enlightened Eugene . Thanks.

But this one still cant get in my brain


When you go up hill most of the vehicle weight goes on the back wheels. I thought that actually if they are single wheels there is so much weight on them that they will be forced to spin and sink (loose dirt or mud).

Another thing. What is it about duall conversion if duals have all these limitations. There is lots of websites and companies that offer duall conversions. Here are two.

http://www.coachcraftindustries.com/dually.htm

http://www.duallyfendersusa.com/

They spin going up hill because they can't get any traction, doesn't matter about weight if you can't get the traction. Look at people who think their heavy vehicles can stop on ice and take off sliding. A little damp grass is like ice.

The dual conversions are out there for people that need the weight carrying ability for pulling a large 5th wheel trailer or carrying a truck camper or dump bed. My father converted a truck to dual wheels for use on the farm and we had to tow it out of everything so he pulled the bed off of that truck and sold it then put it on a 4x4 truck. You'll notice in winter the big 18 wheelers get stuck real easily or slide and jackknife even with all their weight because the weight is spread between so many tiny patches of wheel touching the ground.

If you don't need the extra weight carrying capacity at the back, it's always better to have single tires.

That way, the back tires run in the tracks created by the front tire. This provides better traction and lower rolling resistance.

If I couldn't get the payload capacity from single tires, and I was going offroad a lot, I'd go up a size in vehicle - rather than get a dually and introduce a whole new set of problems.

An acquaintance of mine bought an old school bus to convert to live in. He specifically chose a school bus, he said, because the states impose stricter requirements on school bus construction than on regular vans and RVs. He wanted the real steel to base his new home on, and he says he got it.

Everything is a compromise, so you have to know what you're giving up and what you're getting. His point of view was that he wanted serious construction for his RV converstion, so he went with the bus. If you get what you need from a bus that you don't get from other vehicles, then your decision is made.

There's SCORES of those for sale right down the road from me at the bus company. They get 8 miles per gallon, they have 250,000 miles of part-time drivers on them, so that's why they are so CHEAP.

That said....yeah, I'd love to have one.

As long as it's an IH.

I'm with OBG on this one: motor homes, 5th Wheels & RV trailers are the way to go for a BOV. They are also great fun for vacationing or if you like, practicing bugging out.

School buses and police cruisers are two things you shouldn't buy at government surplus auctions, and for the same reasons.

And rubber gloves. Ewwww.....

I'm going to stick with the small off-road trailer I'm building, for medium to long term use if needed.

If I had the space to store one, I'd get a used ambulane or Red Cross/Salvation Army ERV or the like. I do know that the ERVs tend to get replaced in shall we say "better" condition than most box back ambulances, brcause they tend to SIT, and SIT in some counties, and then get replaced by AGE from funding by the nationa "Hey, it's 14 years old" (and yeah, it only has 5-10k miles on it)

Some have stoves (around here, the Salvation army trucks), all have counters, most have commercial radios mounted, but will be stripped on the way out, but at least the wires will be run (Red Cross is in the VHF 'low' - aka 50 Mhz band)

One thing you will find, surprisingly, they they get crowded, fast. The 2 groups I belong to that have one have found that they really really want to invest in the "tents" that attach over the rear doors (you will see them on Telco "box" vans if your area has them

I heard of a guy in my folk's hometown that got an old school bus and buried it behind the house for a tornado shelter.

Don't know how long it lasted before it rusted out, but as a child that sounded like a really cool thing to do.

Seeing the picture reminded me of that.

Makes me think that you could build a pretty secure tornado shelter by burying a shipping container?

[quote=PackRat

Makes me think that you could build a pretty secure tornado shelter by burying a shipping container? [/quote]

I'd guess that rust would be a big concern.

Actually, the bottom of your pit would need a couple feet of gravel lining with a drainage pipe running from the pit to the outside.

The container would need a couple coats of coal tar sprayed on the exterior, after having air intake & outtake pipes, and antenna & power conduits, and water piping from an exterior sealed tank, installed through the roof.

The container would be mounted on cement dragon's teeth.

Use heavy duty treated timbers to form an entrance with a dog leg in it. Then put the dirt around the sides and over the roof gently to a thickness of 2-3 feet.

Move your equipment and supplies into it.

Notes:
You would probably want to include a drainage pipe connected to your sewage line for dumping your porta potty into.

You might also consider using this as a root celler so it always has rotated foods in it.

Now you have a Root Celler, Tornado Shelter, an Emergency home (in case your home is destroyed by a tornado), and a Fallout Shelter!

Go to www.radmeters4u.com/arktwo/pictures.htm and look what Bruce Beach did with 50 school busses in Ontario Province, Canada.

It is 1 very large private shelter system. All of the busses are interconnected.

edited to add Ark II web address/Bo

Im thinking of buying one of these:
http://www.wee-kender.com/

thought mabye it might make a pretty good BOV. I can even get it painted camo.
i like them cause they're small, and can be pulled with almost any kind of vehicle.
peace
al

basically a big teardrop. I want to build a teardrop trailer but swap the shape from front to back and stretch the center taller to make it able to stand in.

I am building a modified interior version of this one.
http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=493&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

That looks to be back heavy, nothing in front of the axels but the bed and too much weight in the rear, alex needs to be moved back a lot to balance it.

i would use a duel axel tandem for that winter trailer. i think it would be more weight balanced then.

i would build my own, but i have no place to build one at the moment; im pretty much living out of a suitcase these days.

i looked at that web site and REALLY liked the rocketeer unit. well done there!

im leaning towards this place: http://www.adventureteardrops.com/
because they are just down the road from where im staying at the moment! $12G for a delux model with a few options!
All it needs now is a roof rack, and solar panel!

al

TrailDemon - THose look nice. $12k wow!!! That is insane.

Tandem axels have their issues too, more turning friction, harder to pull off road.
Ideally you would want a single alex with the water tanks over the axle since they can change weight that way their change is minimized. Then you want to keep the rest pretty much balanced and stow your loose gear in the front for the tongue weight.

Well i like the KISS rule(Keep it Simple Stupid).
I'm not planning on using any kind of plumbed water systems in a teardrop. i plan on using gravity water containers... less hassle and maintenance.
I talked to the owner at the site above, and had a look at one of his large models. I really liked it.
I inquired abot a wheel swap option to allow use of my 15" Nissan 6bolt rims, and am waiting for a reply before i put down a down payment. As for tandem, i dont think the extra expense would really be worth it for my off road appication. They're cool, but not for me.

peace
al

Trailer wheels are standardized, you just get a hub that matches the axle size and the wheel size and swap it on.

Although a gravity water system is simple you then have to lift your water conainters up high to make it work, sometime s a plumbed system has its advantages.

Because of legal concerns regarding school busses, as well as improving the idea by suggesting something with stronger body

How about delivery vans as long term BOVs ??

This van or smaller :




They have less glass surface, more metal , simpler interior that will accept modification and remodeling as you see fit.

i like the teardrop. the low profile is harder to see, hence easier to conceal. also it is better for fuel economy.
Bad thing is very little storage.
this is why i have a storage locker for the long term stuff.

Notice I said "Modified". The tongue will have 2 ea 30 or 40 pound propane tanks and 2 deep cycle golf cart batteries, A 30 gal water tank will be built within the frame. Everything will balance out when done.

I have a small motorhome (Roadtrek), gets about 11-13 mpg loaded, full tanks, all gear. With chains, drove it in some tough New Mexico weather and it was scary but do-able.
However, I agree, it would be 25+ miles away if caught at work when the bad things happened.

Another plus- it has a nice Onan generator, so I can use it to power refrigeration and re-charge necessary items until power is restored, it, of course, uses the main fuel tank so 30+ gallons until the tank level falls below the generator feed line. I estimate 5 days? of intermittent use........

And an okay ac/dc/propane fridge, and a propane tank for it's little water heater, etc.

SPAM