Lanterns ..

After reading some real life experiences some of you posted on this forum ("after-disasters reports" ...), I decided to upgrade my medium term preparations.

I already have enough stuff for 72 hours or a bit more, but I'm rather un-prepared in the longer term, let's say one or two weeks.

First concern : light.
I will upgrade my batteries stock to supply my various electric lights (flashlights, head lights, Krill lights, etc...)
But I think non electric lanterns would be good for longer periods of use and for area lighting.

My local Ourdoor/Camping shops offer different types of lantern, from very cheap oil lanterns to expensive white gas Coleman lanterns.

I guess I will choose something in the mid-range (price and power ..) : propane lanterns.
I will certainly buy two or three Campingaz Lumostar M270 lanterns, along with 10 gas cartridges.
My choice is based on comparison with the other lanterns :
- not very expensive
- easy to use
- easily stored gas cartridges, with long shelf-life, which is my main reason for choosing propane.

+ I will also buy one Bleuet 270 Micro stove, using the same gas (a mix of propane and butane (right now, I only have a Tangria stove + a few penny stoves, and some paraffin wax (or stuff like that...) stoves.

So, am I missing something or is this a good choice ? Any inconvenient I forget to think about ?

TIA

I wouldn't forget the simple Coleman Lantern. I have a couple of the Dual Fuel models although I've never used gasoline with them. The Coleman lantern has been around forever, parts are easy to find and its much easier to keep going with liquid fuel then rely on canned gas.

Just my two cents

And I've heard that unopened cans of Coleman fuel will last for years in storage, and then burn just fine.

Sue

You might want to take a look at Aladdin lamps also. They give out LOTS of light and aren't pressurized so there is decreased danger and they're quieter than Colemans. Also much less danger of carbon monoxide with Aladdins.

well i have bought several types of lanterns:

The "storm" lanterns, which are basically oillamps. They cost very little, verly reliable, but there output is not impressive at all. (mine is rusting away somewhere...)

A pressurised gasoline/petrol (coleman) lantern, which pumps out loads of light and heats. They are expensive and petrol can cause some storage problems, but when rotated not an real issue. They perform very well in the cold, which isn't the case with propane/butane lanterns. The mantles are however more fragile than propane lanterns, because they only hang from one side. ( i sold mine, because of it's size and weight, making it useless for my normal use for a lantern: hanging out in the woods)

A ultralight weight propane/butane lantern, with a metal screen instead of a glass. Very light, not as much light as the gasoline lanterns, but still lots. I use small valved propane/butane cannisters on mine OR i use 190gramm puncturable tanks in a adapter, which allows it to be used as a valved tank.

I personnally prefer stoves and lanterns that uses the "standard" valved propane/butane tanks and buy a adapter which allows you to use puncturable tanks (much cheaper at 95 cents each). They also make a simple adapter to convert a campinggaz tanks in to a standard valved tank. (i haven't seen vise versa)

I have not used kerosene lanterns in years.
Before electricity (Rural Electric Administration)
came to my Uncle's farm, he used kerosene lanterns.
In summer they generate noticeable and unwanted heat.

My Uncle's lanterns were pressurized and very efficient,
but for camping and survival purposes, the wick type
might be better. Lehman's has some good prices.
http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?itemID=6...83&show48=1

It is good to have options. And sometimes the heat that is
generated is an advantage; it could keep valuable equipment
and supplies from freezing. Note that most of the lanterns
will burn at least 8 hours on one filling.

wick lanterns do not seem to output much light, compared to others lanterns.
+ I would need to store liquid fuel (various oils).

OTOH they are simple and very cheap.
+ same oils can be used in nicer and more decorative oil lamps

So, I may be tempted to buy one or two, along with a few liters of paraffin oil, if just for the option provided.

Yes, I had a look at Aladdin's lamps, but I have not found a retailler in France.

Coleman lanterns and stoves are readily available in France.

Pro's :
* as you say, they have been around for some time and parts are available without hassle.
* For really long term use, unleaded gas might be easier to "obtain" than canned gas (I think Coleman lanterns can use white gas and/or unleaded gas - correct me if I'm wrong)

Cons :
* they are really expensive, compared to other systems ;
* I prefer to store propane/butane canisters, rather than liquid fuel ;
* they seem more complex to operate (pressurisation) and according to other posts, they are somewhat noisy.


So, right now, living in an appartment, in a big town, and preparing for medium duration emergency, I will stick to canned gas appliances.

When (if ?) I'll move to a house in a rural area, I guess I will reconsider the Coleman solution.

I was trying to show how you could put the
heat generation of the lanterns to good use:
keeping things from freezing.

Those decorative "oil" lamps seem very dangerous:
easy to tip over or break. I do not like glass
or plastic pretty things that sit around where
they can get knocked over or broken, causing fire.
Oil lamps and creative craft candles have caused
a lot of fires in the U.S.; they were fads for a
while.

This reminded me that a metal wicked kerosene
lantern could probably start a fire, if it
were over-turned.

Agreed, pressurized lanterns that burn using a
mantled-wick are super bright, and more efficient;
but they are more complex, and break down more.

For Long-Term Preparedness, kerosene is (would be)
more generally available; special propane cylinders
and batteries may not. I agree that liquid fuel is
messy and dangerous to store (illegal for large amounts).

A few Candles would be a good idea, though they are a real
fire hazard, when in use. Put a 4 inch (10cm) candle on a
large dinner plate or pie pan, and it is somewhat safe.
In the U.S.A, food stores often have a small section
of Jewish food and candles that are quite low-priced.

yes, I agree with you on all points.

Oil lamps can be dangerous. I have only one decorative lamp ; its design make it quite stable, but anyway the rare times I use it, I keep it under close watch.

Candles : I have a small stock, including a few emergency candles (by coghlan).

I would be tempted by trying an Aladdin lamp, but they don't seem to be available here.

For short term lighting needs, I use 6 volt batteries, a pigtail, and 6 vdc flashlight lamps. This rig can all be acquired at your local neighborhood hardware store. The 6 vdc lamp puts out sufficient light for playing cards around a table, light in the bathroom, night light for the kids to go to sleep by. The battery last approx 24 hrs in total.

For longer term events, I use Hurricane Lamps (coal oil), Coleman white gas lantern (pump type, uses the same fuel as my Coleman stoves), Coleman propane lantern, and my gas generator (plugged into my main breaker panel) which will light up a couple of rooms while I'm cooling down my refrigerators and freezer.

I also maintain a rotated supply of different sized batteries for flashlights and small handheld electronic games (keeps the kids occupied)

There is still the supply of candles for long term lighting when all the other options have been exhausted.

I have always been a fan of Coleman lanters. I used to have about a dozen of them, but when the ex and I split they had to stay, and have probably been added to the big fire I am sure she had, burning anything around that was "me." Coleman fuel is widely available, and if unopened has a long shelf life (and opened also, from my experience). Always have a handful of spare mantels available, and a spare generator (for your model lantern). Those are about the only two things that ever need replacing on a Coleman. Put a little oil on the pump leather (or rubber on the newer models I believe), and you are always good to go. New Colemans can be expensive, but if you drive around on weekend mornings, looking for that familiar Coleman green (or red for a really old one), you can usually find one for $10 or so. A dual fuel model would seem to offer a better selection of available fuels, but I have never had one of those. You can buy a reflector that attaches, and blocks about half of the globe, thereby directing most of the light in one direction, which can be handy sometimes.

My wife collects kerosene lamps, they always have fuel in them, and we always keep some spare fuel around for them also, just in case. They are a tad more dangerous (tip over can equal fire), but all of our kids are grown and gone, and we haven't reached the age where we might fall over with the walker and crash into a lantern.

We also have a couple of battery (D and AA size) lanterns, mainly for the fast start-up they offer. They will give us the light needed to fire up the big boys...

GET ALL THREE..
if you live in an apartment i would stick to campinggaz
cartridges or battery power because of the danger to the
rest of the people around you..
in your own home where you are just a danger to yourself and
not others i would--and do--have all three "open flame"
methods of lighting each to fit with a different need..
a coleman lamp with a reflector for using outside or when
i would needs lots of bright steady light..a "barn lamp"
that burns refined kero as to not give off too much of a
stink and would be used at a low setting for lighting
rooms that are well enought known that we could move around
in and thru them without bumping into things..and candles..
i keep a couple boxs of "vardag" candles from Ikea put away
and another box that keep in my den for "mood" lighting..i
also keep the stubs for my camping fire lighting kit..
don't get the flat little candles in the tin tubs..you will
end up with a little tub of hot wax that can't be moved around.
a Vardag will burn for 6 hours and in a blackout having a bit
of light in more than one room would be a psychology "upper".
a candle will go out if it falls over which is very unlikely
if you get a good,low base holder and keep them on an open
table...the flashlights are for seeking things out and walking
around..another good candle lamp is the UCO..it has a spring
to push up the candle and will burn for up to 8 hours..but
they need a candle that is made just to fit that lamp..and
the beeswax people make candles to fit..i use one on canoe
trips and it puts out enought light to make a camp site feel
lite up in the total dark of the wilderness..
if you web search for "old town yucca" you will find a site
that has all the parts you need to repair coleman stoves and
lamps...i'll finish by tell you that coleman gas lamps can
be a trick to light..you need practice and a good long match
and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE LAMP..other wise you will
get a "WOOF" and not a nice "hissssssss"..



THIS GIZMO...fits on top of a coleman lamp..you remove the
vent and screw this on..it will heat up a can of beans but
it takes almost 20 minutes to boil water--which is probley
why they don't make them anymore..but they can be found at
yard sales and on Ebay..yes i did try it out and yes i did
leave it on one of my lamps as a back-up source of cooking
power..

Another source of home lighting that I forgot to mention; the solar powered sidewalk lights. I have 6 of them and if the power goes out, I separate the lamp from the rest of the assembly, turn it upside down, and it provides a little light for a room. It will make a great night light for the kids and sufficient light to use the bathroom with. The next morning, we reassemble them and put them back out (in the backyard), and let them recharge.

This is a valuable discussion.

But: I have to say that my hair stands on end at the (apparently) casual suggestion that gasoline and propane appliances be used indoors. These are inherently dangerous items, both for flash fire/explosion and carbon monoxide.

So, allow me to caution the inexperienced: a gasoline or propane flash fire could easily rob you of your primary shelter and survival stores, and leave you with serious burns and smoke inhalation. In a long term survival scenario, this would be a catastrophic event.

If used indoors, gas/propane appliances must be constantly supervised, and fire control plans must be ready. Personally, I would want an extinguisher, sand/dirt bucket, a fire blanket if possible, and a long-handled spade to reach the lantern or stove with. I would probably put them near an easily-opened window or door, so I could pitch the flaming item into the yard before it blew a gasket.

More likely, though, I would use the item (a stove, at least) outside if at all possible.

Hurricane lanterns and candles are somewhat safer (in my experience), but still demand a healthy dose of respect/paranoia. They must be placed and secured in a location where they will not light other items on fire in the event of a mistake. For example, you could set them on a large kitchen table, or even on the stove, in an item such as the broiling pan from your oven. There must be a non-flammable insulator or heat-dissipating air space between the pan and the table -- glass coasters or china plates, for example. Or, you could fill the pan with sand/dirt as a heat shield and fuel absorbent.

If you go the kerosene route (which is safer to use and store) also get a multi-fuel backpacking stove that can use the same fuel.

The safest and most reliable lighting source, hands down, is battery-powered lighting. LED headlamps for everybody, and some bright, high quality LED flashlights or spotlights as backup. Lay in some decent rechargeable batteries and a solar (PV) panel for charging, and you're set for months.

If you need other rechargeables in a pinch, you can take apart your cordless drill batteries (NiCd C-cells, average 1.2 volts each) or laptop battery packs (lithium ion cells, average 3.6 volts each). You can use the cordless drill as a recharger -- it's a permanent magnet motor, making it a passable DC generator. Improvise a crank (very hard work) or rig up an exercise bike (much more effective) and attach to the chuck by whatever means you can. You may also have to open the case to bypass the reverse discharge diode and (possibly) the variable-speed circuit, but this is simple stuff to do.

[EDIT: Phew, reading over my post, I guess I come across as a know-it-all. Don't be fooled. I'm not an expert; I'm just a guy who goes out and does it. So pardon the old guy on the soapbox, and keep talkin', it's all good.]

Just curious :

Is there any difference, carbon monoxide wise, between using a camping propane stove and using the gas cooker in my kitchen ??

That question apart, yes, I also have various electrical lighting sources (battery operated).
But I want an easily (long term) stored fuel, which can be used both for cooking and for area lighting.
And yes again, you are right : any open flame device has to be supervised + carbon monoxyde has to be monitored.

IT's always wise to be safe but i have found from many years
of experence that coleman lamps and stoves are very safe when
used with even modicum of care..i lived in a wood heated
cabin for almost 26 years and fired up a coleman many times..
this was no tar paper shack by the way..it had a big hot tub
and a wonderful stereo system..anyway..i turned off the lights
and lit a lamp many times just for "mood" lighting and more
than a few when winter storms brought branchs down on my
power lines..i would say that the chance of a blow-up are
so small as not to be concerned about any more than the gas
tank of you car cooking off..maybe..could happen..but not
something you think about every time you get in your car..
if you have kids around the house you will have to show some
sense about where and how you use a gas lamp..fumes?? never
a problem with me..sometimes when a lamp was lit i let it flare
up a bit and i had a gas smell inside for a bit but thats all.
blow-ups and fires result from wrong fuel being used,,gas in a
kero lamp/stove..or sloppy handleing..it's like the knives
and guns..just be a grown-up and relax..



JUST KEEP AN EYE OUT AND STAY SAFE !!!!

Canoedogs, there's a lot of sense in what you say.

Growing up, my father always told me that equipment (quads, knives, guns, tractors, automobiles) are as safe (or dangerous) as the operator. Safety is a mix -- knowledge, experience, preparation and attitude all come into it.

Given your extensive experience, I'll bet you're hardly aware of the "safe use" habits you have with liquid fuel appliances.
- I'll bet you do your filling outdoors, in a ventilated space, away from ignition sources
- I'll bet gasoline is never stored in an area with an ignition source
- I'll be you're careful not to overfill to avoid flooding an appliance with liquid fuel
- I'll bet you pay close attention to tightening the filler cap, and are attuned to possible leaks while you pressure up
- I'll bet you know what to listen for (flooding or other unusual operation) and know how to respond
- I'll bet you would never go to bed with a gas stove or lantern running
- and I'll bet you don't use automotive gasoline in applicances not rated for it, or if you did (in a pinch) you'd be on high alert for trouble.

My point is that, as an experienced operator, managing all these risk factors is automatic. Not everyone is at the same level, and in an extended emergency, may put themselves at risk without realizing it.

Anyway, I hope you'll agree that people should learn how to run their stoves and lanterns outdoors first. And, if they bring them indoors, they'd be wise to have a "Plan B" in place if something goes wrong.

frenchy, I was so busy going "over the top" that I didn't respond to your original question. Apologies!

Given that you are in an apartment, propane/butane is probably the best choice. It's a lot more expensive than liquid fuels, but you don't really have a safe place to handle those.

You can't store gasoline, given the obvious fire hazards. Kerosene/lamp fuel would probably be tolerated in modest amounts. I'm not sure how many propane/butane canisters you can safely store in your apartment without violating all sorts of well-intentioned rules and regulations (after all, how many cannisters would you want your next-door neighbour to store?).

If using a propane appliance, always test for leaks before you light up, and don't leave them running unattended. Also, have something ready to smother them with in the event of trouble (a damp bath towel comes to mind).

As to carbon monoxide: a propane stove won't produce a greater carbon monoxide hazard than a gas stove burner. Some kitchen stoves do have a fume hood with ventilation, which reduces the hazard even further, but only when the electricity is on. It's still good practice to crack open a window, though, when such an item is running.

You're probably okay as long as the stove is being used to cook, not as a space heater. That's where the hazard lies. Every time there's an extended blackout, for example, we lose a few people to carbon monoxide because they tried to heat the house with a gas stove or even a propane barbecue brought indoors. They fell asleep on the couch, and stayed that way forever.

Hello Frenchy,

why not a small solar panel (20w at least), a regulator, a small(7ah) gell cell battery and a led or fluorescent lamp? I have this setup at home. It seems to work forever....

Fabio

I have no balcony to set the panel up.
Maybe keeping it indoors would work... in summer time.
During winter months, the sun does not get high enough to shine over the other buildings to reach my windows long enough.

I have my old Coleman standby...but it's relegated to garage storage as is the fuel. LED lanterns are much more safe, easier to use (just flick a switch), last a long time, and you can find them in just about any battery configuration you want...though I prefer AA batteries. I don't worry about using them in a house, tent, car, etc. The ones I use are roughly 5.5" talland 2.25" wide at the widest part (the base). Metric = 14cm x 5.2cm. They use 3 AA batteries and contain 4 LEDs. They're light and pack well just about anywhere. But there are all sorts of LED models.

On the subject of stoves, I prefer alcohol...like your Trangia. They have little to no problems (depends on how cold) and the fuel is not as dangerous, you can find it anywhere...even a liquor cabinet if needed... and comes in recycleable containers. The fuel also doesn't smell bad. That said, I've see some propane burners I am considering for home use...I'm just not sold on them yet.

I also have an MSR whisperlite multi-fuel stove in the garage...somewhere. <grin>

BTW, like CANOEDOGS, I have used coleman lanterns extensively. I used to live 8 miles fromm the nearest road up in the Rocky Mts. I only had coleman lanterns for light at night...even in the cabin. They're built to last and handy as anything. My grandfather pulled one out of flood debris 15-20 years ago, cleaned it up, replaced the long-gone globe, and I've been using it ever since. It used to run all night 3 nights a week for a couple of years while I spent all weekends fishing. But truthfully...these days in a house I like the size and quiet of LEDs.

BTW CANOEDOGS, what is the lantern cooking attachment actually called? I like the multi-purpose attachment...good to have around if you're burning fuel anyway!

I use Coleman propane lanterns while camping and have used them a few times when the lights were out at home. I've had mine for at least 15 years. Very easy to use (indoors I crack a window for ventilation just in case). Propane bottles are a bit pricey but every once in a while I find them for a decent price and always keep a few around as spares.
While camping in colder weather I find they burn more fuel.
Last year I was given 2 Dietz Hurricane lanterns. Haven't used them yet. My plan for them is to use Citronella in them while summer camping to help keep the bugs away.

Interesting that you should mention the Dietz hurricane lanterns. I picked up several of these (No. 8, Air Pilot) on a post-Y2K blowout.

These are clearly meant for use, not decoration. The quality of construction is far, far superior to the cheapo Chinese lanterns you normally see. Also, the base is roughly 8" across, so they're much more stable.

The only source I know of for Dietz lanterns is Lee Valley Tools.

Can I use the citronella oil that is used in Tiki torches in my Dietz lantern? Would be using it outdoors while summer camping.

Citronella lamp oil will work in a hurricane lantern, though it's not perfect. It won't burn as brightly as kerosene, and it will produce more soot. That soot seems to be more difficult to remove.

In a "works-for-a-living" lantern, I wouldn't hesitate.

But I would avoid using it in an antique/heirloom lantern.

Just looking around an little bit and found that Nitro-Pak.com
has them also.

Dietz Lanterns & Other Lanterns

smitty

i know this probably isn't what you were looking for but i use the UCO Candlelier Lantern with (3) 8-10 hour candles that can be burned at the same time for maximum light (or one at time) for long burn time. i've used one camping for the last 10 years and it puts out a suprisingly good amount of light. especially if you put a shiny aluminum/metal reflector on one side to reflect the light. it also works as a great way to keep water almost boiling because its made so that you can set small pots/cups on the top.

http://www.rei.com/product/624320




i don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but the Petromax pressurized lanterns look very nice and burn many types of fuel (kerosene, alcohol, etc.)

http://www.survivalunlimited.com/lanternstove.htm

Thanks, the Dietz lanterns I was given are ""works-for-a-living" lanterns nothing fancy but seems like good ones. I have 2 of them new in the box. While I will be using them as a light source while summer camping I'm also interested in being able to keep away some of the "state birds of the Garden State".

An aside (spiced with rant):

When car camping, I like the quality of light produced by candles and hurricane lanterns. They are unobtrusive and fit with the landscape, the last colours of the day. I can also gaze at the sky unimpeded. I abhor the blazing white-gas monstrosity three campsites away, too often wrought by obnoxious and thoughless buffoons who let them run all night. (Yes, I rant, but this has happened many times. Leave your light pollution in the city. Oh, for a slingshot.)

I often don't bother with a fire, since I can build one at home any time I want. (This changes of course when there's a female contingent.) Also, a fire tricks my internal thermostat into thinking I'm cold when I'm really not. A candle or oil lantern gives me the psychological comfort of a fire, somehow, even though I can't be bothered with one otherwise. It also keeps me from bumping into trees and tripping on roots.

End of aside (rant).

Walking through Wally-World today, I noticed about five different varieties of LED lanterns. Has anybody tried any of these?

well i have had a led lantern, but sold it. (it was to heavy to lug around in mine pack) They are well, very easy to use, give more light than a hurrican lantern, but less than a gasoline one. Also the light is a bit too white and slightly blue-ish. It just doesn't give the same feel, like a real flame. It does have very good controls.

A quick comment on the stove:
I would buy one that supports the cannister at the base and spreads out more to support a pot better. I am not sure about the brands you have in France. My suggestion would be an MSR windpro stove. If you end up buying liquid fuel lanterns than an MSR whisper lite international would be a great choice. The stove can run on everything from white gas to jet fuel, or alcohol.

My Buddy has several of these in his cabin. I just picked one up in case of power outage. $7 at Walmart.

I picked up a couple of these Energizer model FL452WRBP(http://www.opticsplanet.net/energizer-weather-ready-folding-nichia-led-lantern-d-batteries.html)LED based lanterns from Home Depot over the weekend. I liked these from a safety standpoint - no flame. They also have a 'long' runtime. Something on the order of 240+ hours! These run on 'D' batteries, but they are commonly available and I've got enough on hand for 3 sets of changes. The batteries have at least a 5 year storage life and if you get fresh ones they should be good for around 7 years on the shelf (stored in a cool place).

Evan

I have a 3 candle lantern and a one candle candle lantern and prefer the light they put out. I also have a small River Rock 3 AA LED lantern that is light and bright for its size. I also don't really like the color of LED lights, but for just needing light to find something or do something (not relaxing)it works good.

I have several Coleman lanterns, and a couple of led lamps for nightlights. If you really want to light things up try a Petromax lantern. They were designed to burn any flamable liquid, put out 500cp and are built like a tank. They can be a bit tricky to adjust but once you get it right they are the brightest lamp I have ever seen. If you actually read the instructions adjusting them is no problem, otherwise you can spend hours trying to light them without success.
I paid over $100 for my first one. The second one was a gift, but cost about $50. Shop around for a good price. It is worth having at least one of these around when the lights go out.
The only real drawback is that I would never consider lighting one of these indoors. They use what is basically a built in blowtorch to get things started. Once started they run great.