Gas vs. Diesel

What say you? Which is the better overall choice when dealing with long term emergencies? The obvious benefits of diesel seem to be ease of storage and better vehicle mileage. The cons are less choice in vehicles/generators, and cold weather issues. Gas is obviously more convenient and available.

What I noticed in all those photos of people standing in line with gas cans was that no one was buying diesel. Could that be a inherent benefit?


These photos got me thinking.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-02...waiting-waiting

I think for most people the higher initial cost for a diesel generator would be a determining factor (unless you purchase military surplus),though not answering your question...due to the very high compression ratio needed to ignite the diesel, I don't think there is a "pull rope" start available, and would have the added maintenance of an electric start and battery upkeep....

I would hazard a guess, though, that the inverter generators like the Honda eu2000i, not needing to run at a continuous full power will be the choice for the future... and that individuals will limit the cycle run time of their generators to maintain temperature of refrigerators,freezers and charge batteries, as opposed to a continuous run just to keep the lights on

gas..easier to get to and most generators use it.

Most of the larger generators I've seen are diesel. Most of the portable ones are gas. Mid-size fixed generators seem to mostly be natural gas, gasoline, or convertible between the two. So, in this case, size is certainly going to matter.

Actually since fewer people use diesel its the last to run out,so has my experience been.Though some stations dont carry it at all,know your own situation in that event,we have ONE on mtn with diesel within any reasonable neighborly distance.

OP answered his own questions well IMO.

Comments on 2000I honda spot on,great genny,other name brands with same inverter tech that use fuel related to load,honda can run up to 13 hours on one gallon in economy mode,low output.

Im just a genny guy,think its a thousand or less for a techy model that sips fuel and is quiet,a worthwhile investment IMO.

And yes,unless your appliances heavy load like electric range,or a well pump....you can pretty much keep the home running with one by rotating the items to genny.

Yeah, diesels don't seem very cost effective for intermittent personal use. The triple fuel models might be a good choice, especially for a city dweller. More expensive of course.

We were looking at the triple adapters just the other day when I was cleaning carb on Honda (youtubes),advantage...can plump into home NG,or propane tanks or gas.

Propane stores forever.

Adapter kits around 200,but dont quote me on that,info could be outdated.

Edit,there is a place online that does the adaptation when you purchase a new genny from em,ready to go!

Les,there are pull start small diesels,they have a compression release valve to start.At least Buds did,ive seen others online,one called a quiet diesel,not sure how it starts.

For homeowner ease,Im with a gasser.....now whole house NG models,beyond my range.

Diesel or natural gas is the way to go. Gasoline and propane have been near impossible to get here.

I've got a diesel generator and I've been fine (it's still running right now). I've got plenty of diesel on hand, but if I needed it, there are lots of gas stations out there with signs for "Diesel Only."

With that said, I've already ordered a natural gas stand-by generator and will have it plumbed into my homes natural gas line. That way, even if I'm not home to roll out the generator, fill the tank, connect it, start it, etc it will kick on and my home will be warm and bright.

Otherwise, I've been running around like a nut trying to clean stuff up at home, clean stuff up at work, and keep the generator humming. Not having to worry about refilling the tank would be one thing off my mind.

I've also got a 7kw gas generator, but forget it, it's useless to me if I can't get gas. I loaned it out to a cousin and now I basically told him he could keep it.

diesel is a LOT safer.

you can store quantities of diesel without adding any risk to your life. you just cannot do that with gasoline.

You can legally store 250-1000 gallons of heating oil, which is diesel without the engine anti-wear additives. In most places you require a variance to store large quantities of gasoline.

Diesel does not go bad as fast as gasoline. I don't know if it goes bad at all. I know of people that have reclaimed heating oil from abandoned tanks after years of sitting and used it to power their equipment.

The trifecta would be oil heat & hot water, diesel generator and diesel vehicle. Fuel is interchangeable, though you can get fined for using untaxed heating oil for on-highway vehicle use. Apparently the die used in untaxed fuels will permanently stain the fuel filter, so even after you switch back you are still potentially at risk.

Smaller diesel generators can often be found at RV salvage yards. Onan is the brand name.

In NJ diesel has lasted longer than gasoline and is not subject to odd/even rationing. But when stations run out of gas they are closing down even if they still have diesel, and you still have to wait in line. Things might be different at truck stops. But even under normal situations, stations that pump diesel are few and far between. Of course if you are driving a diesel vehicle you will probably have that figured out.

Propane is a mixed bag in my state. It is an unregulated fuel so retailers charge whatever the market will bear. I the major regional LP supplier charges $18 to refill a 20# tank, but if you are a home delivery customer they only charge $9. I don't know if the lower price was a special or normal pricing, I don't have home delivery. Most retailers have gone to tank exchange only, costing an average of $20 for a swap.

Natural gas is the most affordable. Comments elsewhere about susceptibility to interruption during a power failure are noted, but I've never seen it happen. If I had natural gas available in my neighborhood it would be my #1 choice for cooking, heating and backup power. But I would still also maintain a supply of LP for emergencies, along with LP gas jets and knowledge of how to install/adjust them just in case.

Well, it is worth mentioning that you can go broke very fast running a a generator. ALL of them consume ALOT of fuel. Size your unit small, enough to keep the "basics" running (this will vary by your water, heat and other systems) We have a well (175')and hot water NG heat (back up of whole house woodburner).We dont need that much (no BIG freezer full of meat,..etc..) I could and will have a Mil Surplus diesel M701A (3KW, about 40-50 amp, mil unrates them), I also have a BIG Onan 10KW that runs on NG. I dont need or want the BIG one, but will likely have it hooked up (got it on barter from a buddy who pulled it from a hospital). I dont anticipate using the 10KW much likely the little Army jobber. I keep around 300 gallon of "off road" diesel here. It does keep for years and years. It is also my Bug Out fuel for a crew cab dually diesel truck to get he family out of harms way if necessary, that is 2400# of fuel plus water 2400# plus gear, so you can see why a dually (with canopied army trailer). There are some small pull start diesels, usually Yanmars, single cylinder, asd stated with compression release. I had a mil surplus water pump here with a pull start, fired right up. It is hard to go ALL diesel, diesel camp stoves are hard to find, and if you need to cut trees you GOTTA have gasoline. Gasoline goes bad quickly now due to Ethynol in it. It is also very hard on small engines and some folks have come out with additives that help (that is another discussion). The fine for running "dyed" off road diesel on the road is $10,000, THAT is right 10K. So, I would only do that in an emergency. The only person I ever heard that "got off" on the dyed diesel was a "Farm Truck" that was legally on the highway within 125 miles of the farm on a delivery, and that was only a fluke as the judge was reasonable, and claim was legit.


Do your homework and size your genset smallish. Even my little 3KW runs 1/2 gallon per hour, so that is $48 per day!!! The big ones will put you in the poor house. Propane is OUT, there is no way to keep the tank from "frosting/icing" if you were to try to run a genset in the winter, and it cant be reasonably kept, this info is from a buddy who ran a very LARGE statewide propane business (he was the western Pa. operations manager). Even my blacksmithing forge has issues in summer time with icing up and has to put in a large water tank (propane tank is 100#), so large tank. NG lines stay pressurized nearly all the time, power or not. Many wells are coming out of the ground with such pressure that it has to be metered down upon entering the "system" domestic and cross country pipelines, and any and all compression stations have gensets on standby. If you CAN NG, go NG


Ironwood

Mark M.

The dyed diesel and road diesel are EXACTLY the same except for the dye and the tax issue. There are no additive in one that are not in the other.......


OP, also there are some older gensets that run at lower RPM's (Lister, Petter, and some others) these will last ALOT longer and be alot quieter. FYI. Like 800-1750 instead of 3600. Diesels are not designed to run for those kind of RPM's and they are designed to run at certain rpm's to keep the hertz at the specified amount. My M701A 3KW is a screamer at 36000rpm. you cannot change that.....it is designed for that and the engine will only last so long...


Ironwood

I'd love to get my hands on a Lister/Listeroid engine. Last I heard people stopped importing them for fear of EPA issues.

It is likely that over the years many many Amish have snatched them up, they are always in the running for the "good" stuff at auctions I have been to.

Ironwood

It is likely that over the years many many Amish have snatched them up, they are always in the running for the "good" stuff at auctions I have been to.

Ironwood

Great info Ironwood, thanks. NG looks like the way to go. It just made me think of something. When I was growing up a neighbor had a very bright NG porch light. Just like a coleman lantern with a mantle. I remember it was the only house on the block to be lit up after a power outage. Come to think of it, that was pretty smart.