Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines

Posted by: thseng

Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 05:16 PM

Been away from the forum for a few weeks.

I happened to have my camera out as I drove past one of the few stations that had power and fuel left yesterday:
http://youtu.be/VmeQL6ykxiY

Another station in town had a similar line in the morning - mostly people with gas cans for their generators.

Just some personal experience.

Posted by: Dagny

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 08:25 PM

A video is worth a thousand words, thanks.

When the derecho (wind storm) hit DC in July a lot of gas stations lost power and then stations that had power began running low and running out of some grades.

The lines weren't anything like what your video and the news shows. But it was unnerving.

That's going to get real old real fast. Just read that Con Ed will not have a majority of "customers" (the definition of which includes entire buildings) online again until November 11 and the rest as long as a week later.

21 days without power. And it is getting cold.

.

Posted by: Russ

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 08:50 PM

It's getting cold and all that firewood that just fell down won't be ready until next year. Ya gotta be thinking ahead.

Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 08:55 PM

Thanks, that video gives a great perspective.

Having extra gas on hand is always a good asset no matter what the disaster is or where you are located.

Our full size truck holds 32 gallons (121L) which when the tank is empty, costs at today's fuel price of $1.20 per litre ($5.46 per gallon), $175.00 to fill. Add in 2-3 x 5 gallon stored/rotated Jerry cans adds $82.00 to the total. That is a good chunk of change for fuel...However after seeing videos and numerous photos the last few days, the financial cost of maintaining these fuel levels will be all worth it in the event that we are ever faced with a sizable disaster in our part of the country.

Posted by: thseng

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 09:00 PM

Luckily, I topped off my tank on Sunday night. The attendant closed up right after me saying his tanks were empty.

Still large areas without power around here.

We used up most of the food in the fridge & freezer so we didn't have to dig into the dry stores more than normal. I had a couple of gallon jugs of ice in the freezer ahead of time that helped a lot.

The only real issues were my lack of effective backup heat and the fact that there were zero stores open if you did need anything.

Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 09:20 PM

Lets hope folks have the good sense to leave enough fuel in their vehicle tanks so that they can get their vehicle to the Petrol Station when their vehicle fuel tanks and petrol stations run dry so they can top up after a fuel delivery is made at the petrol station.

Keeping an eye out for fuel thieves who will puncture and drain someone else's vehicle tank during the night might also be prudent as this could become a real headache in the next week or so.

Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 09:36 PM

Quote:

The only real issues were my lack of effective backup heat and the fact that there were zero stores open if you did need anything.

I have been to some of the Electrical suppliers websites and there are still vast number without a grid connection. The most worrying aspect though is the expected reconnection time and many just still state 'Pending'. This is now 3 days into the emergency yet some have estimated that this power outage crisis is potentially affecting more than 20-30 million people. Is this normal even for a bad storm!

http://www.lipower.org/stormcenter/outagemap.html

http://apps.coned.com/stormcenter_external/default.html

http://outages.firstenergycorp.com/nj.html

Con Edison for example is now reporting estimated repair times in many New York districts now as November 11th.

I also have the feeling that politically and to reduce loss of life from a planning perspective that New York will be regarded as the priority area to get the city back up and connected to the grid., which doesn't bode to well for the outlying districts when considering allocation of resources.

Quote:

Battery Park City 438 5,042 Pending
Bay Ridge 226 93,430 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Beekman 0 9,259 Pending
Borden 0 12,267 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Borough Hall 2,691 52,631 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Bowling Green 2,514 2,587 Pending
Brighton Beach 5,804 27,831 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Canal 8,479 8,505 Pending
Central Bronx 100 44,452 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Central Park 4 78,552 Pending
Chelsea 27,396 27,526 Pending
City Hall 8,805 8,770 Pending
Columbus Circle 0 19,820 Pending
Cooper Square 66,650 67,237 Pending
Cortlandt 716 2,010 Pending
Crown Heights 577 84,214 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Empire 15 3,605 Pending
Fashion 44 6,342 Pending
Flatbush 12,623 135,665 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Flushing 15,886 119,742 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Fordham 232 114,772 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Fox Hills 26,432 59,350 Pending
Freedom 0 1 Pending
Fresh Kills 18,885 38,152 Pending
Fulton 4,002 3,966 Pending
Grand Central 1 4,871 Pending
Greeley Square 3,091 3,053 Pending
Greenwich 10,109 10,166 Pending
Harlem 11 57,399 Pending
Herald Square 2 1,368 Pending
Hudson 2 8,288 Pending
Hunter 0 2,219 Pending
Jackson Heights 322 71,263 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Jamaica 40,668 147,658 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Kips Bay 21,086 21,628 Pending
Lenox Hill 0 44,042 Pending
Lincoln Square 0 23,019 Pending
Long Island City 726 73,785 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Madison Square 30,190 30,652 Pending
Maspeth 2,958 107,094 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Northeast Bronx 14,981 79,942 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Ocean Parkway 9,872 117,965 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Park Place 4,901 4,905 Pending
Park Slope 1,465 114,131 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Pennsylvania 14 12,366 Pending
Plaza 0 6,368 Pending
Prospect Park 4 32,124 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Randalls Island 0 9 Pending
Rego Park 9,405 70,828 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Richmond Hill 21,448 120,719 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Ridgewood 221 89,163 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Riverdale 3,909 34,772 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Rockefeller Center 0 833 Pending
Roosevelt 11 8,877 Pending
Sheepshead Bay 7,279 63,947 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Sheridan Square 38,230 36,661 Pending
Southeast Bronx 7,471 89,736 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Sunnyside 0 24,571 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Sutton 0 10,423 Pending
Times Square 86 2,560 Pending
Triboro 12 37,140 Pending
Turtle Bay 0 827 Pending
Wainwright 8,566 24,613 Pending
Washington Heights 9 69,829 Pending
West Bronx 54 62,352 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Williamsburg 292 94,606 Nov 11, 23:59 PM
Willowbrook 4,990 23,936 Pending
Woodrow 9,391 28,151 Pending
Yorkville 686 80,474 Pending

Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/01/12 11:16 PM

one of the things Craig Fugate (FEMA Director) did while he was the Director of Emergency Management here in Florida was to form cooperative partnerships with fuel and food retailers to have on site generators to pump gas, run credit cards, and keep the refrigerators/freezers working, and to pre position relief supplies on the trailing side of anticipated land fall...why state directors do not heed lessons learned from others is a mystery...

Posted by: James_Van_Artsdalen

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/02/12 02:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

[quote]
This is now 3 days into the emergency yet some have estimated that this power outage crisis is potentially affecting more than 20-30 million people. Is this normal even for a bad storm!

Yes it's normal after a tropical cyclone.

The press seems to have lost sight of the fact that there's quite a bit of experience with such events on the Gulf Coast. It just takes time to inspect *every* *single* transformer in an area many tens of thousands of square miles, especially if 25% need replacing.

All of the normal "what to expect if you decide to ride out a hurricane" rules apply, even though these people didn't plan on riding it out and probably didn't realize that's what they were doing, like it or not.

Posted by: thseng

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/02/12 01:50 PM

I've never felt the need for a generator for a number of reasons:
1. I has been literally 13 years since the last power outage that lasted more than 2 hours.
2. During a short outage you can simply do without. We have a propane stovetop for cooking and city water. All we lack is heat because the oil burner needs power.
3. During a long outage, it is difficult to store and replenish enough fuel to make it worthwhile.

Case in point, my parents live further north and very rural. They finally have a generator to keep the water and furnace running. This past week my dad has burned much more gas driving around looking for gas than he has obtained so far.

Rant on rationing to follow shortly.

Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/02/12 01:55 PM

Wow, thseng! Thanks for reporting.

I haven't seen a line like that since the 1970s.

Stay safe,

M

Posted by: Ironwood

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 01:10 AM

On gensets, multi fuels is good. Diesel keeps nearly indefintely, and NG lines usually stay pressurized from well heads. My fuel of choise is NG for home, and diesel for mobile. Generally we dont need the electric, more for convienence, and pulling water from our deep well (working on a retro hand pump on century old hand dug/lined well on our property.)

I got a buddy a 709 military diesel genset (3KW) a few years back, he is on Morris NJ and has run it several hundred hours in the last few years in the storms there. They are loud but worth it if you need to keep some important stuff online (wont run a whole house or even part)

Thanks for the video...

Ironwood

Posted by: Jolt

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 02:46 PM

The gas situation in NJ has made me think...my car has a rather small tank, which would be a real disadvantage in that type of scenario if I needed to do a significant amount of driving (fortunately I do have a bike so that would help). I also don't really have a place to store fuel as I am renting an apartment in a multifamily (3 unit) building. Maybe the best thing to do is to fill up the tank and a couple of gas cans when potential badness is approaching...I suppose I could temporarily put a couple of full cans in the far corner of the yard, and use them to fill up the next time that is needed. Anyone have other thoughts?

Posted by: Russ

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 03:14 PM

I always top off the tank before any event that I can see approaching. Other than that, the lower half tank is reserved. As for additional gas cans -- if you can store them safely do it and rotate them out.

Posted by: thseng

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 03:21 PM

They just implemented odd/even gas days in NJ:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/as_nj_gas_shortage_rolls_on_la.html

The simple solution would be to eliminate "gouging" laws. Noooooo - now a state senator is proposing to require gas stations to have generators. Perhaps they could afford them and be motivated to have them if they were allowed to charge what the gas is really worth.

I filled up across the river in PA yesterday - no waiting. Pays to be 10 miles from the border.

Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Jolt

The gas situation in NJ has made me think...my car has a rather small tank, which would be a real disadvantage in that type of scenario if I needed to do a significant amount of driving (fortunately I do have a bike so that would help). I also don't really have a place to store fuel as I am renting an apartment in a multifamily (3 unit) building. Maybe the best thing to do is to fill up the tank and a couple of gas cans when potential badness is approaching...I suppose I could temporarily put a couple of full cans in the far corner of the yard, and use them to fill up the next time that is needed. Anyone have other thoughts?

Do you not have a trustworthy neighbor, friend, family member or co-worker who lives close by and has a garage or shed who will allow you to temporarily store the gas cans?

Posted by: Jolt

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker

Originally Posted By: Jolt

The gas situation in NJ has made me think...my car has a rather small tank, which would be a real disadvantage in that type of scenario if I needed to do a significant amount of driving (fortunately I do have a bike so that would help). I also don't really have a place to store fuel as I am renting an apartment in a multifamily (3 unit) building. Maybe the best thing to do is to fill up the tank and a couple of gas cans when potential badness is approaching...I suppose I could temporarily put a couple of full cans in the far corner of the yard, and use them to fill up the next time that is needed. Anyone have other thoughts?

Do you not have a trustworthy neighbor, friend, family member or co-worker who lives close by and has a garage or shed who will allow you to temporarily store the gas cans?

For temporary storage when a storm is approaching, maybe I could put a couple full cans in the trash shed outside my building--why I didn't think of that right away, I am not sure. That shed is awfully close to the building for storing large quantities of flammable liquids on a regular basis, but having a couple of gas cans in there for a few days should be OK.

Posted by: Dagny

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 09:12 PM

Friend was in NJ the past few days as her brother had an emergency heart situation (surgery postponed 24 hours because the hospital was on generator).

Said she waited 90 minutes in one of the shorter gas lines but was limited to $20 worth and it had to be cash.

I wonder how much gas she burned getting gas.

Sandy will be remembered for a long time. Hopefully, those who remember will be more prepared in the future. But the average person can be only so prepared for gas shortages.

Posted by: thseng

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Dagny

Said she waited 90 minutes in one of the shorter gas lines but was limited to $20 worth and it had to be cash.

I wonder how much gas she burned getting gas.

Exactly! Everyone was driving around burning gas just to find enough gas to drive around and search some more.

Why not allow the people at the front of the line to fill up so they won't come back for at least a few days?

Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Dagny

Friend was in NJ the past few days as her brother had an emergency heart situation (surgery postponed 24 hours because the hospital was on generator).

Said she waited 90 minutes in one of the shorter gas lines but was limited to $20 worth and it had to be cash.

I wonder how much gas she burned getting gas.

Sandy will be remembered for a long time. Hopefully, because those who remember should be more prepared in the future. But the average person can be only so prepared for gas shortages.

Though I am sure a lot of people did not heed the warnings and did not fill their car gas tanks before the storm hit. It makes me wonder though how many people who may of had a good amount of gas are now getting caught up in gotta have it fever? Meaning they watch the news and see these lineups and think that they better go get more gas "before it is all gone."

Posted by: Dagny

Re: Hurricane Sandy Gas Lines - 11/03/12 09:57 PM

I think the even-odd days rationing is a good idea. That should make the lines half as long.

DC is only 200 miles from New York.

That's a world of difference right now. Have had a lot of conversations the past few days in DC in which everyone is expressing sympathy for NY-NJ and observing that there but for... could have been a lot worse down here.

Best wishes to everyone still suffering from Sandy.

.