Well-dressed Greeks foraging in dumpsters

I heard on the radio today that well dressed Greeks have been seen discreetly foraging in dumpsters for food.

The economic situation there today may remind some (albeit to a lesser degree) of the days during WWII nazi occupation and subsequent civil war when 300,000 Greeks died of starvation. This is the type of scenario that few think can happen, but that can and does.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2011/12...rvation-recipes

The Greeks are extemely resilient & proud,they will endure.This is a minor setback as opposed to war,or being occupied.For the time being,they will be using less Windex & More wine,Opahhh! Yassou!

Minor? I guess the Great Depression was just a minor inconvenience for Americans, too.

Have you been following what the Greeks are having rammed down their throats in the name of austerity? The mainstream media is not really reporting the details, but it's basically another example of what Naomi Klein describes in her book, Shock Doctrine. Your average Greek person is facing a Great Depression of their own which is unfolding as we speak.

It is not unlike how smart, prosperous middle class Argentines were suddenly literally digging through dumpsters during Argentina's crisis back in the 90's, too. Considering how many Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and on their credit cards--just to eek by--we're certainly not immune to the possibility of ending up collectively in the poor house ourselves.

Trying to stay away from politics -

Most Greeks retire in their 50s, with government pensions. They contributed to them while they were working. Not a lot of money, but some went into the pension funds. A higher percentage went into taxes to pay all the people working for the Greek Uncle. However, when you figure that the average person lives into their 70s - who picks up the load for the 20 years of retirement? Retirement there is full health/dental and a monthly check.

The average worker has about a month off a year, paid, as does the rest of Europe. They had jobs for life, more or less. Their salaries were inflated and the government supported lower prices on food and other necessities. Hmm, bread and circuses, where have I heard that before.

It's more or less a Ponzi scheme. Now they are having to actually work and pay taxes to support their way of life. The government which was vastly overinflated with workers is cutting back, and the people who are being let go are screaming. They have to find actual jobs.

They will survive, but I betcha they will not like the post-insolvency hardline government at all. And in a few year, they will be right back where they were, having voted in those who promise the status quo ante.

If that happens, they will be risking getting kicked out of the EU.

IMO Greece will be out of the EU before this year is over, Italy and Spain will follow. Nigel Farage (MEP) discusses Greece on KWN

$.02 (less inflation)

It's going to get really ugly and Greece is just the tip of the Iceberg. Greece is ... Much Much Worse The article only discusses various EU banks exposure to EU (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece & Spain) debt. "...when Greece defaults, the other PIIGS (Italy, Ireland, Spain, and Portugal) will have to ask themselves… “do we opt for austerity measures and more debt which obviously didn’t work for Greece and will only stifle our economies more? Or do we also default? ..." Bottom line, Europe is looking at a really bad situation, it's not just Greece. Think about multiple nations defaulting on their sovereign debt.

But what about banks in the USA and their exposure to European debt? This isn't going to end with just Europe having a recession (depression?). The good times they are coming to an end.


Emperor Turhan: How will this end?
Kosh: In fire.

I believe that we are seeing the gathering dark clouds of the financial SHTF scenario that we have been expecting.

I had to read the topic twice because I couldn't grasp the image of computer nerds being both well-dressed and that short of caffeine and sugar...

The Marshall plan gave huge grants to many European countries to help them rebuild their bombed out bridges and factories. The recipients used the money to buy goods and services from the US and Canada and pay their workers to construct and repair. Everyone involved benefitted.

Nowadays, the situation is much different: the problems are financial not infrastructure, the US does not have the money to give, and the US no longer has the industrial base to provide massive goods and services as it did in the 40's and 50's.

I think the long dance is over, and it's time to pay the piper. This will result in the very likely scenario that I'm trying to prepare for: hyperinflation.

General consensus in Europe is it's hard to see Greece staying in the Euro zone - there is a limit to how much bail out money they can expect and they themselves will not want to bear more austerity.

(Of course them they will be back to drachma, massive devaluation and debts still in Euros)

My biggest concern with the global economy (as with climate change and a few other big issues) is the divergence of opinions as to how to deal with the problem, and the various political axes that get ground while supposedly finding a solution.

Watching the US from overseas there seem to be a lot of half truths, lies and poor analogies coming from all quarters and so the chance of finding a solution and implementing it seems low.

When you think about it, the Marshall Plan was a remarkable idea--give tons of money to help rebuild the mortal enemies you just defeated.

I guess we had learned what happens when you shatter a country's economy and saddle it (e.g. Germany) with too burdensome a debt load (i.e. war reparations) "really bad things" can ensue politically, like Hitler. But I agree with Byrd_Huntr that today's situation is very different than post-WWII.

In fact, the international financial system established at Bretton Woods after WWII which made the US dollar the center of the financial universe is arguably on its last legs now.

You don't hear it anymore, but it wasn't that long ago that there was a lot of talk of China becoming Europe's savior and riding to their rescue.

It's my understanding that when Greece leaves the EU and reverts to the Drachma, the debt is reset to the Drachma. Then Greece prints a lot more Drachma and pays the bill with much cheaper currency. It's a haircut either way. Greece would rather manage the haircut themselves than allow the Germans to dictate the terms. IMO, $.02

I can't blame the Germans for insisting that the kids cut up their no-limit credit cards as a condition for a bailout. That's a given whether Greece keeps the Euro or not. Germans haven't forgotten the hyperinflation they went through in the '20s (3 billion marks for a pound of bread), and have managed their postwar finances accordingly.

I don't blame the Germans either. As a nation of responsible savers, the Germans really want to avoid hyperinflation, they've BTDT. Everyone does what they perceive is in their best interest -- even if it isn't. IMO they're all trying to control their losses and manage the Greek default to minimize damage, but for some Greeks so much damage has already been done that national pride is all that remains.

From what I've read, the Greeks have a history of defaulting. Unfortunately for Europe, the Greeks may take that road one more time but because European financial ties are so intermingled, once the first domino falls more will follow. In the end, even people/nations who have tried to do the right thing will be dragged under.

Then there's the biggest debtor nation on Earth. What should be a survival event for financial institutions could become a survival event on a very personal level, with "Well-dressed Americans foraging in dumpsters".

If they follow Iceland's example, they basically repudiated all foreign creditors' claims. Iceland did guarantee domestic savings, though.

Iceland did pretty well for itself, overall, and mostly recovered in a short period of time, by basically telling the international bankers that they weren't going to let themselves and their children and grandchildren become indentured serfs to them. Individually, many Icelanders are still really hurting, but overall, the country is doing pretty well considering the impossible financial situation they were put in just a few short years ago. Actually, the Greeks are in a similarly impossible financial situation with the added shackle of being part of the Eurozone.

Pardon me for making niggling distinctions, but as I understand it, Iceland and Greece put themselves in an impossible financial position. It wasn't done to them from the outside.

Yep, Greece following the Iceland model is a realistic alternative. It wouldn't do much to stop the dominoes from falling, but it may be a way out for Greece.

dougwalkabout -- as I understand (and I'm certainly not an expert), Iceland repudiated the debt incurred by their central bank which was a privately owned institution much like the Fed in the USA is privately owned, not government as many seem to believe.

In The Meantime Iceland Is #Winning

Iceland fared better by letting banks fail

Daniel Hannan: "until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel"

You're right, I shouldn't be lumping the two situations together. Apples and oranges.